Spurs/Bulls
Moderators: MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger
Spurs/Bulls
- Texas Chuck
- Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
- Posts: 92,367
- And1: 98,208
- Joined: May 19, 2012
- Location: Purgatory
-
Spurs/Bulls
Follow up to my Cam Johnson deal
Harry Barnes/26 UTH 2nd for Vucevic
Bulls get a high 2nd in a year and take back a quality player/guy
Spurs get a talented center who can play a few minutes a half with Vuc and play center while he sits.
Harry Barnes/26 UTH 2nd for Vucevic
Bulls get a high 2nd in a year and take back a quality player/guy
Spurs get a talented center who can play a few minutes a half with Vuc and play center while he sits.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,938
- And1: 5,525
- Joined: Jun 03, 2023
Re: Spurs/Bulls
I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,898
- And1: 13,840
- Joined: Nov 13, 2019
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
One_and_Done wrote:I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,938
- And1: 5,525
- Joined: Jun 03, 2023
Re: Spurs/Bulls
Godaddycurse wrote:One_and_Done wrote:I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
He can't share the floor with Wemby, he's a pure 5 on D (and not a good one).
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,898
- And1: 13,840
- Joined: Nov 13, 2019
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
One_and_Done wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:One_and_Done wrote:I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
He can't share the floor with Wemby, he's a pure 5 on D (and not a good one).
Wemby can play 4 on D, and he should play 4 against heavy/bulkier C's to conserve his health
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Starter
- Posts: 2,394
- And1: 907
- Joined: May 02, 2020
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
I like both trades you posted (only the 1st, if Knueppel came off the board)..I'd like to see the Mavs get ahead of this by offering Gafford+O- Max for Vuc
Old Mike Lorenzo
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,968
- And1: 2,363
- Joined: Jul 02, 2014
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
As written it's a fair deal. Yes I think Vuc can play with Wemby and 3 guards, they force the defense to react and match up.
I really don't see Barnes getting on the floor for the Bulls, is he going to be any happier riding the CHI bench than SAS? Buzelis starts at the 4, right now they either play Giddey and Huerter at the SF while for all the whining about him they've got Patrick Williams and even Julian Phillips to come off the bench at the 3 or 4 and they have futures, Barnes is not a big difference maker just waiting for his oversized contract to end more so the Vucevic.
I'd let Barnes and his people try to find a team that figures to have minutes for them and expand the deal.
I really don't see Barnes getting on the floor for the Bulls, is he going to be any happier riding the CHI bench than SAS? Buzelis starts at the 4, right now they either play Giddey and Huerter at the SF while for all the whining about him they've got Patrick Williams and even Julian Phillips to come off the bench at the 3 or 4 and they have futures, Barnes is not a big difference maker just waiting for his oversized contract to end more so the Vucevic.
I'd let Barnes and his people try to find a team that figures to have minutes for them and expand the deal.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,646
- And1: 3,784
- Joined: Jan 12, 2015
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
I'm also not a fan of this. The logic I could see for the Sprus doing the first trade is to add shooting for the forward spots. I can't justify them turning around and trading one of their shooting forwards for a 15 MPG player. Yes, the Spurs should take their backup center spot seriously. That's why they should consider using one of their lotto picks on one, or be willing to use the MLE on one.
I don't think Vuc is it, even in a vacuum. I think a lot of people argued for this thinking Victor needed to play PF with some spacing center. From what I've seen, Victor is a center, and if he is to play some PF, it needs to be with a rim-running center who will add vertical spacing while Victor hangs out on the perimeter. The good news is that those types of centers are pretty available. They aren't where the modern meta is for starting centers, but they tend to be good value in backup roles, which is what the Spurs should want in the first place.
I don't think Vuc is it, even in a vacuum. I think a lot of people argued for this thinking Victor needed to play PF with some spacing center. From what I've seen, Victor is a center, and if he is to play some PF, it needs to be with a rim-running center who will add vertical spacing while Victor hangs out on the perimeter. The good news is that those types of centers are pretty available. They aren't where the modern meta is for starting centers, but they tend to be good value in backup roles, which is what the Spurs should want in the first place.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,938
- And1: 5,525
- Joined: Jun 03, 2023
Re: Spurs/Bulls
Godaddycurse wrote:One_and_Done wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
He can't share the floor with Wemby, he's a pure 5 on D (and not a good one).
Wemby can play 4 on D, and he should play 4 against heavy/bulkier C's to conserve his health
The Spurs learned in his rookie year what a terrible idea that was, it takes away what makes him special on D. I don't think they're interested in doing that just to enable Vooch to exist.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,901
- And1: 1,237
- Joined: Jun 13, 2023
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
I have Harrison Barnes as more valuable for the Spurs than Vucevic, in terms of positional value (Spurs need a shooting forward more than they need a no defense backup center) and team chemistry (he's very important to the young guys on the team beyond his impact on the court). I would not move him for a marginal deal (in this case, I think it's detrimental), only if his salary needs to be included for matching purposes in a deal for a star. He's not your long term starter if you want to contend, but he's more than capable as a stop gap starter and eventual backup.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,901
- And1: 1,237
- Joined: Jun 13, 2023
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
Chinook wrote:I'm also not a fan of this. The logic I could see for the Sprus doing the first trade is to add shooting for the forward spots. I can't justify them turning around and trading one of their shooting forwards for a 15 MPG player. Yes, the Spurs should take their backup center spot seriously. That's why they should consider using one of their lotto picks on one, or be willing to use the MLE on one.
I don't think Vuc is it, even in a vacuum. I think a lot of people argued for this thinking Victor needed to play PF with some spacing center. From what I've seen, Victor is a center, and if he is to play some PF, it needs to be with a rim-running center who will add vertical spacing while Victor hangs out on the perimeter. The good news is that those types of centers are pretty available. They aren't where the modern meta is for starting centers, but they tend to be good value in backup roles, which is what the Spurs should want in the first place.
You're not wrong but I think it could be worked out on offense as I believe both Wemby and Vucevic can spread the floor or play inside. The big problem I see is that they don't fit at all on defense, as you can't play Vucevic on the perimeter (or anywhere, really) and if you push Wemby out you're shooting yourself on the foot by giving up your single biggest asset in Wemby's rim protection. And if you're bringing Vucevic off the bench, it doesn't help you at all with rim protection in the non Wemby minutes, which is one of the Spurs biggest weaknesses. I think we might see the Spurs use their second FRP or their SRP on a center (Sorber, Kalkbrenner, etc).
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,901
- And1: 1,237
- Joined: Jun 13, 2023
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
Godaddycurse wrote:One_and_Done wrote:I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
If Spurs really want Reid they can simply pay the Nets (or anyone) to take on Barnes (expiring 19 million, high character, solid vet: 12.3 PPG, 3.8 RPG. 1.7 APG on 50.8% / 43.3% / 80.9% splits) for a relatively low price (say, move back from 14 to 19 or 26) to have enough cap room to make an offer for Naz Reid. Could be something like:
Harrison Barnes + 14 for 19
if that's not enough they can add 38:
Harrison Barnes + 14 + 38 for 19
or take 26 instead:
Harrison Barnes + 14 for 26
Nets can then play Barnes, or flip him for more assets (taking longer money or other players).
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,898
- And1: 13,840
- Joined: Nov 13, 2019
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
wemby wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:One_and_Done wrote:I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
If Spurs really want Reid they can simply pay the Nets (or anyone) to take on Barnes (expiring 19 million, high character, solid vet: 12.3 PPG, 3.8 RPG. 1.7 APG on 50.8% / 43.3% / 80.9% splits) for a relatively low price (say, move back from 14 to 19 or 26) to have enough cap room to make an offer for Naz Reid. Could be something like:
Harrison Barnes + 14 for 19
if that's not enough they can add 38:
Harrison Barnes + 14 + 38 for 19
or take 26 instead:
Harrison Barnes + 14 for 26
Nets can then play Barnes, or flip him for more assets (taking longer money or other players).
you are at about 158M give or take taking into account capholds for FRPs and roster spots. salary cap is ~155M. moving back + unloading barnes give you about ~18M capspace only which isn't enough (his max extension that he can sign with wolves is worth more than that). need to unload some more salary
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,901
- And1: 1,237
- Joined: Jun 13, 2023
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
Godaddycurse wrote:you are at about 158M give or take taking into account capholds for FRPs and roster spots. salary cap is ~155M. moving back + unloading barnes give you about ~18M capspace only which isn't enough. need to unload some more salary
Per Spotrac, Spurs are at 143.4 before picks, no cap holds. That gives them about 11 million in cap room potentially. If they move Barnes (expiring 19 million) they'll have about 30 million to offer Naz Reid. If they need more money to to sign a FRP you can move a pick or dump Blake Wesley / Malaki Branham (expirings former FRPs that could interest a tanking team) for very little, say 1/2 SRPs. Bottom line, if Spurs really want Naz Reid, they'll figure out a way to make an offer.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,898
- And1: 13,840
- Joined: Nov 13, 2019
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
wemby wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:you are at about 158M give or take taking into account capholds for FRPs and roster spots. salary cap is ~155M. moving back + unloading barnes give you about ~18M capspace only which isn't enough. need to unload some more salary
Per Spotrac, Spurs are at 143.4 before picks, no cap holds. That gives them about 11 million in cap room potentially. If they move Barnes (expiring 19 million) they'll have about 30 million to offer Naz Reid. If they need more money to to sign a FRP you can move a pick or dump Blake Wesley / Malaki Branham (expirings former FRPs that could interest a tanking team) for very little, say 1/2 SRPs. Bottom line, if Spurs really want Naz Reid, they'll figure out a way to make an offer.
you have to account for the picks and roster capholds in your capspace calculations... FA is after draft. 143.4 before picks = 158M or so after picks and capholds as i said. dumping wesley and branham in addition to Barnes gives you another ~4.7M space (7.5M - 2.8M 2nd rd min caphold) which might be enough?
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,901
- And1: 1,237
- Joined: Jun 13, 2023
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
Godaddycurse wrote:you have to account for the picks and roster capholds in your capspace calculations... FA is after draft. 143.4 before picks = 158M or so after picks and capholds as i said. dumping wesley and branham gives you another ~4.5M space which might be enoguh?
Spurs can renounce cap holds (no FA would stand in the way of making Naz Reid an offer) and choose not to use their picks (move them for future picks). And, again, Spurs can make up to 10 million in extra cap space if they dump Branham and Wesley (both 21 year old former FRP expirings) which would give them the necessary cap room to offer Naz Reid 30 million AND sign the 8th and 14th picks. So it can be done.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,898
- And1: 13,840
- Joined: Nov 13, 2019
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
wemby wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:you have to account for the picks and roster capholds in your capspace calculations... FA is after draft. 143.4 before picks = 158M or so after picks and capholds as i said. dumping wesley and branham gives you another ~4.5M space which might be enoguh?
Spurs can renounce cap holds (no FA would stand in the way of making Naz Reid an offer) and choose not to use their picks (move them for future picks). And, again, Spurs can make up to 10 million in extra cap space if they dump Branham and Wesley (both 21 year old former FRP expirings) which would give them the necessary cap room to offer Naz Reid 30 million AND sign the 8th and 14th picks. So it can be done.
sorry misread wesley as massey earlier. dumping wesley and massey gives you about 7M space, not 10M (you have to accoutn for roster minimum caphold/cant renounce those.
it's tricky to trade picks now for future picks; you definitely can do that to free up more capspace but that transaction happens well before you're legally allowed to talk to Reid's camp/you can't get a promise from Reid to come if you do that. Its a bit risky to do that and gamble on Reid coming in FA.
If you keep your picks you will be at 158M. dumping barnes + branham + wesley gives 25M space (after subtracting roster minimum capholds for being below 14man). at 133M or so you might have enoguh to sign Reid. not a sure thing still
Re: Spurs/Bulls
- Bornstellar
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,509
- And1: 22,663
- Joined: Mar 05, 2018
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
No interest in Vuc. And I can guarantee Spurs value Barnes in his role and would not dump him for a backup C. Dude just came off a career shooting year both overall and from three and played in all 82 games. Plus Spurs biggest issue is their defense completely collapses when Victor sits. Vuc would not help in that regard at all.
Re: Spurs/Bulls
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 58,774
- And1: 35,853
- Joined: Dec 22, 2010
-
Re: Spurs/Bulls
wemby wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:One_and_Done wrote:I mean, it's not bad value in a vacuum. It just doesn't make alot of sense for the Spurs since Vuc will be a pure back up (which Vooch's ego won't be happy with either). I'd rather they try and get someone like N.Reid this offseason as their back-up.
a) Reid is a FA, spurs dont have capspace
b) Reid is a more deserving starter than vuc and would be even more unhappy
c) Vuc can share the floor w/ Wemby so he would probably get 6 man minutes.
OP is great value for Chicago. I like it for both teams
If Spurs really want Reid they can simply pay the Nets (or anyone) to take on Barnes (expiring 19 million, high character, solid vet: 12.3 PPG, 3.8 RPG. 1.7 APG on 50.8% / 43.3% / 80.9% splits) for a relatively low price (say, move back from 14 to 19 or 26) to have enough cap room to make an offer for Naz Reid. Could be something like:
Harrison Barnes + 14 for 19
if that's not enough they can add 38:
Harrison Barnes + 14 + 38 for 19
or take 26 instead:
Harrison Barnes + 14 for 26
Nets can then play Barnes, or flip him for more assets (taking longer money or other players).
There is no one else. It's the Nets, only the Nets, and the Nets are well aware they're the only option. Now trading up for absorbing cap space isn't a bad option, but the trades you put forth may not be their best one. Also, it's hard to get guys to leave playoff teams who perform well for a little bit more money.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Return to Trades and Transactions