OKC Roster Crunch Incoming – What’s the Move?

[Skybox]

maybe move Caruso out for a bigger, better and still improving, younger, cheaper version in Anthony Black. Possibly a similar deal with Hartenstein, but he's not really long-term money. ORL loves AB, but he's kind of redundant with Suggs & KCP. I'd prefer to unload KCP's fat contract, but I'd send out AB and an expiring (Cole?) for Caruso and Topic...not sure how the world values Topic, but might be something to work with there...Maybe something in a similar vein with Goga/Hartenstein, but as I said, IHart isn't a long term overpay, by design, so maybe not any kind of solution.

Caruso ($18m), Topic ($5m) to ORL for Black ($7.9m) and Cole Anthony ($13m expiring/TO)...this is a trade one team or the other will regret, depending on how AB and Topic develop...or, could be a win-win. I really could care less about Caruso, but this is the kind of thinking OKC (and ORL soon too) will have to have.

[Devilanche]

maybe move Caruso out for a bigger, better and still improving, younger, cheaper version in Anthony Black. Possibly a similar deal with Hartenstein, but he's not really long-term money. ORL loves AB, but he's kind of redundant with Suggs & KCP. I'd prefer to unload KCP's fat contract, but I'd send out AB and an expiring (Cole?) for Caruso and Topic...not sure how the world values Topic, but might be something to work with there...Maybe something in a similar vein with Goga/Hartenstein, but as I said, IHart isn't a long term overpay, by design, so maybe not any kind of solution.

Caruso ($18m), Topic ($5m) to ORL for Black ($7.9m) and Cole Anthony ($13m expiring/TO)...this is a trade one team or the other will regret, depending on how AB and Topic develop...or, could be a win-win. I really could care less about Caruso, but this is the kind of thinking OKC (and ORL soon too) will have to have.

Not sure why OKC would do that ?
Caruso most likely to have best impact next 2 season and topic has more seasons under cost control than black . Black hasn’t shown enough for OKC to give up both of that .

[Texas Chuck]

maybe move Caruso out for a bigger, better and still improving, younger, cheaper version in Anthony Black. Possibly a similar deal with Hartenstein, but he's not really long-term money. ORL loves AB, but he's kind of redundant with Suggs & KCP. I'd prefer to unload KCP's fat contract, but I'd send out AB and an expiring (Cole?) for Caruso and Topic...not sure how the world values Topic, but might be something to work with there...Maybe something in a similar vein with Goga/Hartenstein, but as I said, IHart isn't a long term overpay, by design, so maybe not any kind of solution.

Caruso ($18m), Topic ($5m) to ORL for Black ($7.9m) and Cole Anthony ($13m expiring/TO)...this is a trade one team or the other will regret, depending on how AB and Topic develop...or, could be a win-win. I really could care less about Caruso, but this is the kind of thinking OKC (and ORL soon too) will have to have.

Not sure why OKC would do that ?
Caruso most likely to have best impact next 2 season and topic has more seasons under cost control than black . Black hasn’t shown enough for OKC to give up both of that .

No chance OKC gives up the best player and asset in a trade like that. Maybe if you are giving Presti a future pick with minimal protections, but even then I don't like it for OKC.

[Skybox]

maybe move Caruso out for a bigger, better and still improving, younger, cheaper version in Anthony Black. Possibly a similar deal with Hartenstein, but he's not really long-term money. ORL loves AB, but he's kind of redundant with Suggs & KCP. I'd prefer to unload KCP's fat contract, but I'd send out AB and an expiring (Cole?) for Caruso and Topic...not sure how the world values Topic, but might be something to work with there...Maybe something in a similar vein with Goga/Hartenstein, but as I said, IHart isn't a long term overpay, by design, so maybe not any kind of solution.

Caruso ($18m), Topic ($5m) to ORL for Black ($7.9m) and Cole Anthony ($13m expiring/TO)...this is a trade one team or the other will regret, depending on how AB and Topic develop...or, could be a win-win. I really could care less about Caruso, but this is the kind of thinking OKC (and ORL soon too) will have to have.

Not sure why OKC would do that ?
Caruso most likely to have best impact next 2 season and topic has more seasons under cost control than black . Black hasn’t shown enough for OKC to give up both of that .

No chance OKC gives up the best player and asset in a trade like that. Maybe if you are giving Presti a future pick with minimal protections, but even then I don't like it for OKC.

Clearly we have different feelings if you're thinking Caruso is the best player...maybe it's Topic

[mademan]

Not sure why OKC would do that ?
Caruso most likely to have best impact next 2 season and topic has more seasons under cost control than black . Black hasn’t shown enough for OKC to give up both of that .

No chance OKC gives up the best player and asset in a trade like that. Maybe if you are giving Presti a future pick with minimal protections, but even then I don't like it for OKC.

Clearly we have different feelings if you're thinking Caruso is the best player...maybe it's Topic

Caruso is without question the best player in the deal. Topic is better value than Black with the extra cheap year

OKC loses every way on this trade

[Devilanche]

Not sure why OKC would do that ?
Caruso most likely to have best impact next 2 season and topic has more seasons under cost control than black . Black hasn’t shown enough for OKC to give up both of that .

No chance OKC gives up the best player and asset in a trade like that. Maybe if you are giving Presti a future pick with minimal protections, but even then I don't like it for OKC.

Clearly we have different feelings if you're thinking Caruso is the best player...maybe it's Topic

I don’t really care if it’s Topić or Black who got the best upside but Caruso clearly is the best player impact for the next 1-2 season which should be OKC’s focus.

Edit - if you think it’s topic , isn’t OKC losing massive value in the trade.

[Skybox]

No chance OKC gives up the best player and asset in a trade like that. Maybe if you are giving Presti a future pick with minimal protections, but even then I don't like it for OKC.

Clearly we have different feelings if you're thinking Caruso is the best player...maybe it's Topic

I don’t really care if it’s Topić or Black who got the best upside but Caruso clearly is the best player impact for the next 1-2 season which should be OKC’s focus.

Edit - if you think it’s topic , isn’t OKC losing massive value in the trade.

I don’t think it’s Topic…nobody knows what he is yet.

[Devilanche]

Clearly we have different feelings if you're thinking Caruso is the best player...maybe it's Topic

I don’t really care if it’s Topić or Black who got the best upside but Caruso clearly is the best player impact for the next 1-2 season which should be OKC’s focus.

Edit - if you think it’s topic , isn’t OKC losing massive value in the trade.

I don’t think it’s Topic…nobody knows what he is yet.

Ok that’s a fair assessment . Thought your trade offer view him as the higher upside .

Not sure why Orlando would do that trade if he doesn’t have the higher upside and you don’t care for Caruso .

[Skybox]

I don’t really care if it’s Topić or Black who got the best upside but Caruso clearly is the best player impact for the next 1-2 season which should be OKC’s focus.

Edit - if you think it’s topic , isn’t OKC losing massive value in the trade.

I don’t think it’s Topic…nobody knows what he is yet.

Ok that’s a fair assessment . Thought your trade offer view him as the higher upside .

Not sure why Orlando would do that trade if he doesn’t have the higher upside and you don’t care for Caruso .

Let me reframe what I think…Topic definitely has the upside among all 3 and the lowest floor since we haven’t seen him. I’d sacrifice what I believe (just me apparently) is a younger, cheaper, longer, better already version of Caruso in Black to, basically, get a huge upside PG prospect for ORL. ORL has Suggs and KCP already, so 3&D pretty well covered, even redundant, so losing AB for another young player at a position of greater need is viable. The point of the thread is to save OKC money without going off the rails…AB does what Caruso does TODAY and, maybe, shows additional playmaking and ballhandling beyond Caruso’s eventually…for a lot less. ORL sends an expiring Cole Anthony to salary match.

ORL welcomes Caruso but probably wants to flip him or KCP - whoever brings back something. Any team would be happy to get Caruso, a proven winning role player…AB already does all of the same things and offers more positional versatility on both ends, with additional possible upside.

Topic was a buy-low pick due to repetitive injuries to his knee…but his upside is great…but nobody really knows yet.

[DrModesty]

I don’t think it’s Topic…nobody knows what he is yet.

Ok that’s a fair assessment . Thought your trade offer view him as the higher upside .

Not sure why Orlando would do that trade if he doesn’t have the higher upside and you don’t care for Caruso .

Let me reframe what I think…Topic definitely has the upside among all 3 and the lowest floor since we haven’t seen him. I’d sacrifice what I believe (just me apparently) is a younger, cheaper, longer, better already version of Caruso in Black to, basically, get a huge upside PG prospect for ORL. ORL has Suggs and KCP already, so 3&D pretty well covered, even redundant, so losing AB for another young player at a position of greater need is viable. The point of the thread is to save OKC money without going off the rails…AB does what Caruso does TODAY and, maybe, shows additional playmaking and ballhandling beyond Caruso’s eventually…for a lot less. ORL sends an expiring Cole Anthony to salary match.

ORL welcomes Caruso but probably wants to flip him or KCP - whoever brings back something. Any team would be happy to get Caruso, a proven winning role player…AB already does all of the same things and offers more positional versatility on both ends, with additional possible upside.

Topic was a buy-low pick due to repetitive injuries to his knee…but his upside is great…but nobody really knows yet.

So the issue here seems to be that you think Anthony Black is already better than Caruso when he clearly isn't. Caruso is a better 3 point shooter, better defender, better decision maker, is more opportunistic and is at minimum matching him on the boards. Anthony Black is a very good defender with nice upside, broad tool kit, size and still on his rookie scale deal. So there is value to him. But he is by no means an "already better" Alex Caruso. He has a way to go to even reach his level let alone surpass it.

[Skybox]

Ok that’s a fair assessment . Thought your trade offer view him as the higher upside .

Not sure why Orlando would do that trade if he doesn’t have the higher upside and you don’t care for Caruso .

Let me reframe what I think…Topic definitely has the upside among all 3 and the lowest floor since we haven’t seen him. I’d sacrifice what I believe (just me apparently) is a younger, cheaper, longer, better already version of Caruso in Black to, basically, get a huge upside PG prospect for ORL. ORL has Suggs and KCP already, so 3&D pretty well covered, even redundant, so losing AB for another young player at a position of greater need is viable. The point of the thread is to save OKC money without going off the rails…AB does what Caruso does TODAY and, maybe, shows additional playmaking and ballhandling beyond Caruso’s eventually…for a lot less. ORL sends an expiring Cole Anthony to salary match.

ORL welcomes Caruso but probably wants to flip him or KCP - whoever brings back something. Any team would be happy to get Caruso, a proven winning role player…AB already does all of the same things and offers more positional versatility on both ends, with additional possible upside.

Topic was a buy-low pick due to repetitive injuries to his knee…but his upside is great…but nobody really knows yet.

So the issue here seems to be that you think Anthony Black is already better than Caruso when he clearly isn't. Caruso is a better 3 point shooter, better defender, better decision maker, is more opportunistic and is at minimum matching him on the boards. Anthony Black is a very good defender with nice upside, broad tool kit, size and still on his rookie scale deal. So there is value to him. But he is by no means an "already better" Alex Caruso. He has a way to go to even reach his level let alone surpass it.

Keep saying it- maybe I’ll come around

In the meantime, watch some of AB…he’s making big strides weekly, it seems. No fear in the playoffs.

We don’t have to agree, but I think Caruso’s rep has gotten blown up to this mythical status…he’s no better than KCP either…they’re all good but limited role players…2 of them are ridiculously overpaid, especially when their ages are considered vs contract duration.

It doesn’t really matter how they stack up…paying $20m for him for several more years is kind of the epitome of the OP’s concern, isn’t it? Presti will have to make tough calls, so if Player A is better, but Player B is good enough for the role, on this particular team, and he’s at a significantly lower salary…they’ll consider it.

ORL has too much money into marginal to good bench players and now their young core players are head into massive extensions too. Guys like Caruso, Isaac, Moe Wagner, Goga may be worth their deals, on an individual basis, but it’s still a problem with the cap aprons. Hartenstein is not a $30m player, but he was intentionally overpaid to fill a short-term need. Same situation as FVV in HOU. GMs will have to make tough decisions and lose guys they want to keep over contracts…basically, the middle class is dying…luckily, you have best GM, so he’ll figure it out.

[DrModesty]

Let me reframe what I think…Topic definitely has the upside among all 3 and the lowest floor since we haven’t seen him. I’d sacrifice what I believe (just me apparently) is a younger, cheaper, longer, better already version of Caruso in Black to, basically, get a huge upside PG prospect for ORL. ORL has Suggs and KCP already, so 3&D pretty well covered, even redundant, so losing AB for another young player at a position of greater need is viable. The point of the thread is to save OKC money without going off the rails…AB does what Caruso does TODAY and, maybe, shows additional playmaking and ballhandling beyond Caruso’s eventually…for a lot less. ORL sends an expiring Cole Anthony to salary match.

ORL welcomes Caruso but probably wants to flip him or KCP - whoever brings back something. Any team would be happy to get Caruso, a proven winning role player…AB already does all of the same things and offers more positional versatility on both ends, with additional possible upside.

Topic was a buy-low pick due to repetitive injuries to his knee…but his upside is great…but nobody really knows yet.

So the issue here seems to be that you think Anthony Black is already better than Caruso when he clearly isn't. Caruso is a better 3 point shooter, better defender, better decision maker, is more opportunistic and is at minimum matching him on the boards. Anthony Black is a very good defender with nice upside, broad tool kit, size and still on his rookie scale deal. So there is value to him. But he is by no means an "already better" Alex Caruso. He has a way to go to even reach his level let alone surpass it.

Keep saying it- maybe I’ll come around

In the meantime, watch some of AB…he’s making big strides weekly, it seems. No fear in the playoffs.

We don’t have to agree, but I think Caruso’s rep has gotten blown up to this mythical status…he’s no better than KCP either…they’re all good but limited role players…2 of them are ridiculously overpaid, especially when their ages are considered vs contract duration.

Have you been watching the OKC Grizzlies series? Caruso has been extremely high impact. I rate Anthony Black. I think he is a good player with plenty of upside. Caruso is upending games right now.

[Devilanche]

I don’t agree black is better than Caruso already but now at least I can see the thought process behind the offer .

[bbms]

caruso is the top guy in the league in def epm. numero uno.

well into top 50 epm overall.

his game doesn't just jump off the tv screen as a specialist, it jumps off the impact spreadsheets too.

[shrink]

The Celtics are hitting a financial wall, though.

I would contend that Presti looked at the CBA and is charting a path that does let the window stay open "forever." You do of course have to get over that hump, but what are they missing this year that they didn't go get?…

They had the resources to add a superstar of overwhelming dominance, and come in as overwhelming favorite in 2025.

For the last two decades, I have seen several young teams that looked so talented, dominant and cheap appear to have a long open window. I have never seen that work, even when the CBA was more amenable to it.

OKC has had the most value on their team than anyone else, probably the last two years, and they mostly just sat on it, and have no rings. They aren’t a free agent destination. I’m rooting for them to get a ring this year, but if not, I think they wasted an opportunity, trying for some unproven future. I’d prefer you, the internet chirper, running OKC and using those assets now.

I mean I’m not really sure how that makes much, given that their big three will be around for many years and the team is still going to have a massive asset advantage even if they just do nothing going forward. Jalen and Chet aren’t in their primes or close to it yet. What was the superstar trade that OKC should have made and didn’t? If there was something out there, hard to see how it would be affordable financially if it didn’t include Jalen or Chet, and hard to see why you would do it if it didn’t include, given that they are top 30 guys.

Literally the only bad thing about having stars on rookie contracts is that they will eventually need to get paid. If you look at the Spurs, they were willing to trade for a star in Fox because Wemby wasn’t getting his first big contract for several years, and the team can manage its financial structure to afford him now and still avoid the lux. I have come to believe Tim Connelly’s stance that young stars develop best if they have winning talent around them early in their career, and they get experience winning in challenging (playoff) situations.

As to “who could OKC have gottten?” that’s hard to say. Since superstar players are the key to NBA Championships, only 1-2 are publicly available each year. And I use the word “publicly” intentionally, because with OKC’s asset horde, there may have been able to trade for a superstar that we had no idea could be traded.

I think OKC could have been a contender last year, and shouldn’t have lost to DAL if they had spent even a quarter of their assets on an upgrade. To me, that’s a missed opportunity, and if they get knocked out this year, shame on them. They could have been favorites. The future is not guaranteed - ask POR in 2007, with so much young talent that looked like they’d be contenders for several year, and never got a ring. Windows do NOT stay open forever.

[Andre Roberstan]

So the issue here seems to be that you think Anthony Black is already better than Caruso when he clearly isn't. Caruso is a better 3 point shooter, better defender, better decision maker, is more opportunistic and is at minimum matching him on the boards. Anthony Black is a very good defender with nice upside, broad tool kit, size and still on his rookie scale deal. So there is value to him. But he is by no means an "already better" Alex Caruso. He has a way to go to even reach his level let alone surpass it.

Keep saying it- maybe I’ll come around

In the meantime, watch some of AB…he’s making big strides weekly, it seems. No fear in the playoffs.

We don’t have to agree, but I think Caruso’s rep has gotten blown up to this mythical status…he’s no better than KCP either…they’re all good but limited role players…2 of them are ridiculously overpaid, especially when their ages are considered vs contract duration.

Have you been watching the OKC Grizzlies series? Caruso has been extremely high impact. I rate Anthony Black. I think he is a good player with plenty of upside. Caruso is upending games right now.

Agreed.

And I get it ... as much as I loved Caruso in his previous stops, I thought "surely he can't be THAT valuable."

OKC playing him off the bench in the RS allowed him to not get beat up and save his energy for the postseason, and it's paying off. I watched him almost singlehandedly rip the game away from the Grizzlies the other night in about 7 minutes with his energy and defense. They played him on everyone from JJJ to Ja. I've never seen anything like it, and I've watched some great wing defenders. The only one I can think of that's been that impactful is Kawhi.

There is a very short list of players I'd trade him for; asserting Black is close is just wrong, and that's no slight to Black. Caruso's just on a different level right now.

[Texas Chuck]

Caruso has that Joe Ingles, Boris Diaw, Dre Miller issue where they look like that sneaky good player at the Y, not someone who should be having big impact in NBA games. Going bald at 22 or whatever Caruso did, didn't help him.

But yeah he's far and away the best player of that group. I also think even with the extension he's the most valuable of them, but with his age and lack of offense, I can at least squint and see why some might think its Topic or Black. But when you look and see Anthony clearly the least valuable and OKC having no interest in downgrading, the initial offer just isn't really interesting at all.

[bbms]

They had the resources to add a superstar of overwhelming dominance, and come in as overwhelming favorite in 2025.

For the last two decades, I have seen several young teams that looked so talented, dominant and cheap appear to have a long open window. I have never seen that work, even when the CBA was more amenable to it.

OKC has had the most value on their team than anyone else, probably the last two years, and they mostly just sat on it, and have no rings. They aren’t a free agent destination. I’m rooting for them to get a ring this year, but if not, I think they wasted an opportunity, trying for some unproven future. I’d prefer you, the internet chirper, running OKC and using those assets now.

I mean I’m not really sure how that makes much, given that their big three will be around for many years and the team is still going to have a massive asset advantage even if they just do nothing going forward. Jalen and Chet aren’t in their primes or close to it yet. What was the superstar trade that OKC should have made and didn’t? If there was something out there, hard to see how it would be affordable financially if it didn’t include Jalen or Chet, and hard to see why you would do it if it didn’t include, given that they are top 30 guys.

Literally the only bad thing about having stars on rookie contracts is that they will eventually need to get paid. If you look at the Spurs, they were willing to trade for a star in Fox because Wemby wasn’t getting his first big contract for several years, and the team can manage its financial structure to afford him now and still avoid the lux. I have come to believe Tim Connelly’s stance that young stars develop best if they have winning talent around them early in their career, and they get experience winning in challenging (playoff) situations.

As to “who could OKC have gottten?” that’s hard to say. Since superstar players are the key to NBA Championships, only 1-2 are publicly available each year. And I use the word “publicly” intentionally, because with OKC’s asset horde, there may have been able to trade for a superstar that we had no idea could be traded.

I think OKC could have been a contender last year, and shouldn’t have lost to DAL if they had spent even a quarter of their assets on an upgrade. To me, that’s a missed opportunity, and if they get knocked out this year, shame on them. They could have been favorites. The future is not guaranteed - ask POR in 2007, with so much young talent that looked like they’d be contenders for several year, and never got a ring. Windows do NOT stay open forever.

i agree with almost everything. in thunder forums back when we sucked i was one of lonely voices actually cheering the team to win the games because once a team enter in that loop of losing as a business, it's hard to imagine players coming around as strong competitors. we sucked back then, but the players never looked uninterested in winning and that helps developing players.

competitive environments develop better players than uncompetitive environments.

on the latter. 2024 and 2025 thunder are very different. 2025 thunder is a (much) better and more rounded team than 2024. also dallas in 2024 was playing as well as anybody in the west since the trade deadline, and would be favorites against anybody in 2025 western conference bar okc

so apples and oranges. back then i advocated for a kevin durant move. in the offseason, in the deadline, to dread of some sensitive okc fans. but as this thunder team gets better, more mature, i think this need go smaller.

particularly this season if we had kd on top of this roster the obrien would be in okc more often than heads on a coinflip.