Cade Sells KD on Detroit

[Texas Chuck]

Detroit was a top 6 team in the conference and they ain't going quietly in the playoffs. Not sure some of you understand the concept of timeline, but Detroit is very much in win now mode and absolutely should be. If you can add a terrific offensive player without decimating your core or leaving the cupboard bare of assets, you very much should do that.

Even if you don't win the title. Some of you probably aren't aware only 1 team wins a title each year. The other 29 teams aren't wasting their time though trying to improve their team lol.

The problem is KD has shown you he can't be the best player and leader on a championship team. He would be asked to do that in Detroit.

Why would a young team with future potential trade away assets for 2 years of KD.

No Cade would be both the best player and the leader. Obviously.

[nate33]

I just don't see any team being more willing and able to trade for KD than Houston.

First of all, Houston having the Phoenix picks is obviously very enticing for Phoenix because it allows them to tank and get lotto value out of the pick. Secondly, Houston has too many guys that will eventually get paid and they can't keep them all. They surely will be unable to hold on to all 3 of Smith, Eason and Thompson for cap reasons, so trading one of them now while their value is higher (as cheap rookie contract guys) makes sense. Third, Houston has the cap ballast with VanVleet and Brooks. And finally, Houston has a real need for a shot-creating wing who can score in crunch time.

Basically, Houston would be giving up something like: VanVleet + Smith + 2027 FRP for KD. From Houston's perspective, they'd be giving up an overpriced contract, a guy that they would probably have to trade or let walk in free agency anyhow, and a pick that was probably going to be #14 or so. That's not that big of a price. But from the Phoenix perspective, they're getting back cap relief, a cornerstone big forward, and a likely top 8 draft pick assuming they try and tank that one season. That's a good haul.

[tmorgan]

Those arguing “Why wouldn’t Detroit want to make themselves better if it doesn’t take much from their core/assets?”

#1 It would heavily deplete their asset base, so that’s wrong. If you assume Detroit is going to be at least fairly good, with or without KD, going forward, our first round picks don’t have a lot of value. We own zero outside first round picks. Thus, our asset base is mostly just players. We have a surplus of young 2/3’s in Ausar, Holland and Ivey. That’s it. We have one young PG, one young C (plus Stew, so kinda two), and no young PFs worth mentioning. Trading two of those three young guys is literally taking all of the premium assets we have for a 37-year-old star.

#2 Accelerating your timeline while disrupting your pecking order while still not being a top tier contender is stupid and interferes with the development of the young players you have left. We all know what kind of offense Durant mostly plays — *extremely effective* iso-ball. He’s one of the greatest to ever play at getting his own shot and making it. Super awesome — and a complete waste of Cade’s best skill. So Cade becomes less of a playmaker, Duren gets less P&R reps, our remaining wings get less of everything. It likely becomes the Cade and Kevin show, just like Phoenix with the Booker and Kevin show. We don’t want that.

And then, probably two years later, and probably without a Finals appearance, Durant retires or ring hunts elsewhere. You’re left with less total talent than now, less developed players than you could have had, and it just plain sucks in comparison. Is that worth whatever tiny chance a KD+Cade team has of beating Boston, Cleveland, OKC and whoever else emerges next? Titles are the goal, for sure, but this is a completely assinine way to go about it.

[DetroitSho]

2021 Phoenix trades for a 35 year old CP3 to go with their core of Booker, Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson, all between the ages of 22 and 24.

They immediately go from 34-39 and 10th seed in the West to the Finals and get over 60 wins the season after that

There's no law that says all your players have to be the same age or that you're only allowed to trade for a vet if you are an inch away from winning a ring

I'm late af to this thread but I've used this exact example on the Pistons board multiple times because it irritates me how much fans are married to "building" instead of actually trying to win. You don't have to lose in the playoffs for 5 years before you're allowed to win FFS.

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[GreekAlex]

2021 Phoenix trades for a 35 year old CP3 to go with their core of Booker, Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson, all between the ages of 22 and 24.

They immediately go from 34-39 and 10th seed in the West to the Finals and get over 60 wins the season after that

There's no law that says all your players have to be the same age or that you're only allowed to trade for a vet if you are an inch away from winning a ring

I'm late af to this thread but I've used this exact example on the Pistons board multiple times because it irritates me how much fans are married to "building" instead of actually trying to win. You don't have to lose in the playoffs for 5 years before you're allowed to win FFS.

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I think the short rebuttal is not wanting to burn assets on a short window that likely won’t yield a championship just to raise the team’s ceiling.

[DetroitSho]

2021 Phoenix trades for a 35 year old CP3 to go with their core of Booker, Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson, all between the ages of 22 and 24.

They immediately go from 34-39 and 10th seed in the West to the Finals and get over 60 wins the season after that

There's no law that says all your players have to be the same age or that you're only allowed to trade for a vet if you are an inch away from winning a ring

I'm late af to this thread but I've used this exact example on the Pistons board multiple times because it irritates me how much fans are married to "building" instead of actually trying to win. You don't have to lose in the playoffs for 5 years before you're allowed to win FFS.

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I think the short rebuttal is not wanting to burn assets on a short window that likely won’t yield a championship just to raise the team’s ceiling.

Which in this scenario of a 37 year old is a very valid rebuttal. But the problem is I see this same lame excuse for acquiring guys 28-29 years old. Hell, there's another poster in here, who roots for who we root for, scoffing at adding 27 year old Durant. Absolute silly season.

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[GreekAlex]

I'm late af to this thread but I've used this exact example on the Pistons board multiple times because it irritates me how much fans are married to "building" instead of actually trying to win. You don't have to lose in the playoffs for 5 years before you're allowed to win FFS.

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I think the short rebuttal is not wanting to burn assets on a short window that likely won’t yield a championship just to raise the team’s ceiling.

Which in this scenario of a 37 year old is a very valid rebuttal. But the problem is I see this same lame excuse for acquiring guys 28-29 years old. Hell, there's another poster in here, who roots for who we root for, scoffing at adding 27 year old Durant. Absolute silly season.

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KD can join the Pistons as a FA when he’s ready to ring chase

[fanforlife]

I think KD would be a great addition for the Pistons especially for a couple years. He would have surely contributed in important ways in the series against the Knicks. I would not give up Ivey and Holland for him. The Suns should be happy to get out from under KD's salary. Perhaps a first round pick and the other players mentioned.

[Kalamazoo317]

How much does KD bring it on defense still? Would putting him in Tobias' spot on defense be an upgrade, downgrade, or a push? Tobias has been really important for us on defense and with his leadership this season. KD is clearly an offensive talent upgrade, but I'd be concerned about losing in other areas.

[bgrep14]

I'd love if the Cavs brought in Durant and Ighodaro for Garland and Okoro

[pipfan]

I really think this makes sense for Det. Extend KD for one year
KD for Holland/Harris/2026#1 (done after the draft, I think it's legal then).
Suns get a place filler in Harris, a young, talented kid in Holland and a pick, plus they save a lot of $
Det can really go for it in the next 2 years

[tmorgan]

If it’s KD for DET26#1 (lottery protected, to hedge for injuries to Cade or Durant), Ivey and Harris, sure. That’s cheap enough to risk it.

I’m keeping Holland over Ivey for defense and salary control. I know it’s the worse fit with Booker, but that’s my offer. I completely understand if Phoenix declines, but that’s as far as I go. I’m almost certain Phoenix can do better.

[Ell Curry]

Is Ivey that bad on D? He's young, athletic, shot the 3 well, I figured Pistons fans would be high on him being a good PG and 3rd option behind Cade and the guy they still need (and Ausar as co-#3 let's say).

[tmorgan]

Is Ivey that bad on D? He's young, athletic, shot the 3 well, I figured Pistons fans would be high on him being a good PG and 3rd option behind Cade and the guy they still need (and Ausar as co-#3 let's say).

Yep, so far. Was a little better this year (year 3) before getting hurt, but still clearly well below-average.

And yes, he shouldn’t be. At all. Very frustrating. With athleticism like that and a mom as a college head coach… it’s strange.

[Kalamazoo317]

He's bad on defense, yeah, but the offensive fit with Cade was looking solid before he went down. Our defensive turnaround was probably less about Ivey going out and more about Ausar playing fuller minutes, though.

[Warspite]

Do you understand how good and valuable a 27 year old KD was? He's like a top 15 greatest player of all time. The idea that a trade package of Ivey/Holland and filler salary of Fontecchio to upgrade to a 27 year old all time great player over Tobias Harris is only something you'd "consider" is a preposterous statement.

You've made that clear. Now address how many times trading the farm for a superstar has worked out.

Acting like trading two #5 picks in the draft is nothing, also doesn't make it so. The Pistons would be giving up 4 players for one, and I'm sure picks would also have to be included. (Matter of fact, it's guaranteed.)

Your position is clear. Do whatever it takes to trade for superstars. I disagree. Creating additional holes to fill, and losing depth after these trades, makes it super difficult to win a title, as history has shown.

What he's saying is you are underrating 27 year old KD. That age KD would be the most valuable player in the league today, and if there was ever a way to pair prime cade and prime kd you do it and figure out filling how to replace guys like fontecchio lol later.

With hindsight of today we know that Durant is not a winner. IF you want to win he is not the person who can lead your team to a championship. He will play great and put up stats but he isnt going to win anything unless you can put 3 more allstar/HoF players with him. In Detroit Durant would be awful and miserable. He would leave the 1st chance he had. He simply doesnt have the testicular fortitude to play in Detroit.

[DetroitSho]

Is Ivey that bad on D? He's young, athletic, shot the 3 well, I figured Pistons fans would be high on him being a good PG and 3rd option behind Cade and the guy they still need (and Ausar as co-#3 let's say).

Not as bad as posters on the Pistons board try to make it seem. We improved defensively when he went out but that's because Ausar became the POA defender on the other team's best player in his place.

Ivey was the only one on the team expected to be a high level 2 way player. He was guarding the other team's toughest assignment, was the 2nd scoring option and lead guard for the bench. If he had an 8 point game or a tough defensive night it always got pointed out. Meanwhile THJ always guards basically the scrubbiest wing on the other team and if he scores 8 points it's just accepted.

I don't think Ivey would've done any worse on Brunson than Schroeder did. And if his primary assignment was Josh Hart or Mikal Bridges, he would've been able to do more offensively than THJ. Long story short, he barely got the benefit of playing with a defensive game changer like Ausar.

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[DetroitSho]

You've made that clear. Now address how many times trading the farm for a superstar has worked out.

Acting like trading two #5 picks in the draft is nothing, also doesn't make it so. The Pistons would be giving up 4 players for one, and I'm sure picks would also have to be included. (Matter of fact, it's guaranteed.)

Your position is clear. Do whatever it takes to trade for superstars. I disagree. Creating additional holes to fill, and losing depth after these trades, makes it super difficult to win a title, as history has shown.

What he's saying is you are underrating 27 year old KD. That age KD would be the most valuable player in the league today, and if there was ever a way to pair prime cade and prime kd you do it and figure out filling how to replace guys like fontecchio lol later.

With hindsight of today we know that Durant is not a winner. IF you want to win he is not the person who can lead your team to a championship. He will play great and put up stats but he isnt going to win anything unless you can put 3 more allstar/HoF players with him. In Detroit Durant would be awful and miserable. He would leave the 1st chance he had. He simply doesnt have the testicular fortitude to play in Detroit.

Nobody would be asking him to lead anything tho. He's 2nd fiddle at this point and a great one at that.

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