SAS/NOP: Keldon & 14 for Herb?

[ReggiesKnicks]

Yeh, I disagree. Nets or Hornets for eg would have happily take him for free.

I understand wanting to be correct on the internet, but you are truly just burying your head in the sand when being presented by facts.

We just disagree on Keldon's value. Not everyone is so focussed on advanced stats. Keldon coming off a team's bench is fine, and he'd likely start for say Charlotte or Brooklyn

As I said, this is still a favourable deal for SA either way.

RAPM, +/- and 3P% aren't advanced

[One_and_Done]

I understand wanting to be correct on the internet, but you are truly just burying your head in the sand when being presented by facts.

We just disagree on Keldon's value. Not everyone is so focussed on advanced stats. Keldon coming off a team's bench is fine, and he'd likely start for say Charlotte or Brooklyn

As I said, this is still a favourable deal for SA either way.

RAPM, +/- and 3P% aren't advanced

The first of those two are the definition of advanced stats. I assume what you mean is they're 'better' than box score composites and formulas, or that they 'measure something' (though so does a formula).

RAPM or plus minus can be wrong for lots of reasons. We shouldn't take it too seriously, especially not for role players on teams that aren't that good.

[Chinook]

Plus-minus is a box-score stat, just as much as FG% is. RAPM is weird, because in many ways, it's the most advanced stat there is. But it also doesn't have the same derivative and weighted nature that more traditional advanced stats do.

RAPM is rarely wrong. Its problem is that it doesn't have the use a lot of people want it to have. It is basically a career-long stat rather than a season or especially a game stat. If a guy is having a breakout year, you likely wouldn't be able to tell based on their RAPM, even once it gets updated. To try to account for that inertia, folks have made "improved" versions of RAPM like RPM that try to work box-score stats into the formula to be more immediately useful. But that's dumb, because RAPM's momentum is what makes it's so good in the first place. The stat is good, but people misuse it a lot.

(I'm not commenting on Keldon here. I'm just talking about the stat in general. I think all of the Spurs' advanced stats will look better if they could win more games. That seems like I have causality backwards, but bad players on good teams will often have better stats than players of equal caliber on bad teams. RAPM in particular tries to account for this, but it requires a LOT of data to make it work. Hence why it's so plodding.)

[ReggiesKnicks]

We just disagree on Keldon's value. Not everyone is so focussed on advanced stats. Keldon coming off a team's bench is fine, and he'd likely start for say Charlotte or Brooklyn

As I said, this is still a favourable deal for SA either way.

RAPM, +/- and 3P% aren't advanced

The first of those two are the definition of advanced stats. I assume what you mean is they're 'better' than box score composites and formulas, or that they 'measure something' (though so does a formula).

RAPM or plus minus can be wrong for lots of reasons. We shouldn't take it too seriously, especially not for role players on teams that aren't that good.

I've never heard basic +/- referred to as an advanced statistics since it is a box scores statistic. Good to know it is advanced.

[One_and_Done]

RAPM, +/- and 3P% aren't advanced

The first of those two are the definition of advanced stats. I assume what you mean is they're 'better' than box score composites and formulas, or that they 'measure something' (though so does a formula).

RAPM or plus minus can be wrong for lots of reasons. We shouldn't take it too seriously, especially not for role players on teams that aren't that good.

I've never heard basic +/- referred to as an advanced statistics since it is a box scores statistic. Good to know it is advanced.

A minute ago you thought RAPM wasn't one either. I don't know that getting hung up on definitions is helpful in any event. Plus minus stats measure something on the court, but whether it's measuring what an individual is doing accurately is another matter.

[ReggiesKnicks]

The first of those two are the definition of advanced stats. I assume what you mean is they're 'better' than box score composites and formulas, or that they 'measure something' (though so does a formula).

RAPM or plus minus can be wrong for lots of reasons. We shouldn't take it too seriously, especially not for role players on teams that aren't that good.

I've never heard basic +/- referred to as an advanced statistics since it is a box scores statistic. Good to know it is advanced.

A minute ago you thought RAPM wasn't one either. I don't know that getting hung up on definitions is helpful in any event. Plus minus stats measure something on the court, but whether it's measuring what an individual is doing accurately is another matter.

Well Keldon isn't shooting, isn't playmaking, isn't defending and as a result his +/- has been terrible.