No-Hou-Por Zion value guessing games.

[lpbman]

No trades Zion for Jalen Green, Duop Reath, Aaron Holiday, the no 10 pick from Houston, and the number 11 from Portland.

Pelicans move on from the Zion experiment for a guy who, say what you want about Jalen Green, he has the ability of availability and he can put on a show. He gets paid, but it isn't the most outrageous thing contract in the world. Two new firsts with their 7... pretty good chance to build something good with 23 Y/O Jalen Green, Tre, Herb, Messi.

Por trades Jerami Grant, Duop Reath and Camara 11th for Zion

Portland sells on 25 yo defensive stud, for enigmatic 24 offensive force of nature. They give up the 11th pick for the privilege. If you are a Zion disbeliever, you won't like this one as a Portland fan. If you're the owner and you get out from Grant and bring in a huge name and throw out Scoot, Sharpe, Advija, Zion, Clingan as a starting 5. Simons trade still an option down the road. Mayyybe.

Houston trades Jalen Green and Aaron Holiday, 10th pick to Pelicans for Grant and Camara.
Houston has Ime, and trades offensive volatility and draft capital for more defense. Also eats the Grant contract, which is pretty objectively worse than Jalen Green despite the 2 million total difference.


There is of course room to argue over picks and such.

[BuddyBuckets]

I think Houston is getting ripped a bit here maybe? I'm not super high on Jalen Green but I think his value is higher than this.

[Pattycakes]

No trades Zion for Jalen Green, Duop Reath, Aaron Holiday, the no 10 pick from Houston, and the number 11 from Portland.

Pelicans move on from the Zion experiment for a guy who, say what you want about Jalen Green, he has the ability of availability and he can put on a show. He gets paid, but it isn't the most outrageous thing contract in the world. Two new firsts with their 7... pretty good chance to build something good with 23 Y/O Jalen Green, Tre, Herb, Messi.

Por trades Jerami Grant, Duop Reath and Camara 11th for Zion

Portland sells on 25 yo defensive stud, for enigmatic 24 offensive force of nature. They give up the 11th pick for the privilege. If you are a Zion disbeliever, you won't like this one as a Portland fan. If you're the owner and you get out from Grant and bring in a huge name and throw out Scoot, Sharpe, Advija, Zion, Clingan as a starting 5. Simons trade still an option down the road. Mayyybe.

Houston trades Jalen Green and Aaron Holiday, 10th pick to Pelicans for Grant and Camara.
Houston has Ime, and trades offensive volatility and draft capital for more defense. Also eats the Grant contract, which is pretty objectively worse than Jalen Green despite the 2 million total difference.


There is of course room to argue over picks and such.

Blazers aren’t trading Camara so no

[MoreyWins]

I don't understand your reasoning for Houston

[JRoy]

No trades Zion for Jalen Green, Duop Reath, Aaron Holiday, the no 10 pick from Houston, and the number 11 from Portland.

Pelicans move on from the Zion experiment for a guy who, say what you want about Jalen Green, he has the ability of availability and he can put on a show. He gets paid, but it isn't the most outrageous thing contract in the world. Two new firsts with their 7... pretty good chance to build something good with 23 Y/O Jalen Green, Tre, Herb, Messi.

Por trades Jerami Grant, Duop Reath and Camara 11th for Zion

Portland sells on 25 yo defensive stud, for enigmatic 24 offensive force of nature. They give up the 11th pick for the privilege. If you are a Zion disbeliever, you won't like this one as a Portland fan. If you're the owner and you get out from Grant and bring in a huge name and throw out Scoot, Sharpe, Advija, Zion, Clingan as a starting 5. Simons trade still an option down the road. Mayyybe.

Houston trades Jalen Green and Aaron Holiday, 10th pick to Pelicans for Grant and Camara.
Houston has Ime, and trades offensive volatility and draft capital for more defense. Also eats the Grant contract, which is pretty objectively worse than Jalen Green despite the 2 million total difference.


There is of course room to argue over picks and such.

Hell no from POR.

Some other team can pay to watch ZW munch corndogs on the IL.

No counter offer and call blocked.

[lpbman]

I don't understand your reasoning for Houston

Reasoning for Houston is simple, Jalen Green minutes are now Amen/ Camara minutes. There is good reason to think the 10th pick won't play any time soon, so they move for a guy who does what they do. Play defense.

And I am not surprised Portland fans don't like it, but a talent like Zion for a 25yo defensive specialist and dumping Grant while keeping the core would at least give portland front office something to think about. If Camara was 20 years old... I think objections would hold more water, but I could see them squeezing a little more from Houston in the deal. And maybe Pels settle for less, like Zion value is such that Portland keeps their pick. I don't have a great grasp on what Zion goes for when/if he's traded, hence my title.

[LarsV8]

Houston doesn't have the luxury of being able to eat 3 years of dead money with impending extensions.

Camara is a nice piece, but we are loaded at Forward and thin at guard. Trading two guards for two forwards further imbalances our roster.

There aren't many NOP posters who can explain what NOP path forward is, so it's hard to guess what direction that team wants to go.

[Myth]

I would be so pissed if Blazers did this. Give me Camara and #11 (plus whatever contributions from Grant) over 35 games per season for a highly paid Zion.

[lpbman]

Houston doesn't have the luxury of being able to eat 3 years of dead money with impending extensions.

Camara is a nice piece, but we are loaded at Forward and thin at guard. Trading two guards for two forwards further imbalances our roster.

There aren't many NOP posters who can explain what NOP path forward is, so it's hard to guess what direction that team wants to go.

I don't think Camara is a nice piece, I think he's the guy who can make Amen Thompson "always" play 2 guard, where his handles are. This trade would both push Amen to 2 guard, but also Dillon Brooks to the bench by being a better version of Dillon Brooks at the 3. Stop using Amen to put out fires, and build a team to make him better. I think there is a version of this trade with Detroit for Ausar and Tobias Harris, but Houston has to throw the war chest at that one, and something similar with Atlanta and Dyson Daniels. But it's true I suggested this without giving too much thought into what it looks like when all the contracts need to be paid, otoh, defensive guys get paid less so maybe you can really have a bunch of em. shrug emoji

[Case2012]

I wouldn't trade Camara for Zion straight up. Camara is the backbone and heart of the team and he leads the way in terms of our defensive identity. He's on his rookie deal, and improved vastly last year. I think Camara can be more than a 3/d roleplayer personally, but he would need to learn how to create his own shot.

[Texas Chuck]

This is really bad for Houston. Like really really bad. Camara isn';t worth 10 before you get into the Green/Grant swap which is bad value as well.

I love this for Portland. I understand that pariticular fanbase maybe not having the stomach for the injury risk, but you get a guy of that caliber that cheap? I mean I feel like you have to take that opportunity because even if he doesn't work out his contract has outs and you haven't given up any premium assets.

I'd pass as New Orleans. Too much talent to trade him for Green and a couple of late lottery picks. If that's the best you can do, just keep trying. If he's hurt just keep picking high in the draft yourself.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I love this for Portland. I understand that pariticular fanbase maybe not having the stomach for the injury risk, but you get a guy of that caliber that cheap? I mean I feel like you have to take that opportunity because even if he doesn't work out his contract has outs and you haven't given up any premium assets.

Premium assets? Perhaps not. But sacrificing Camara and a mid-first definitely hurts if Zion amounts to what we've seen so far or worse. It's not just a fanbase having no stomach for injury risk: it's the particular guy we're talking about. The right team to chase "a guy of that caliber that cheap" is a team for whom he represents the promise of pushing them over the top. A team in need of a reliable franchise cornerstone is not the right home for Zion.

[Texas Chuck]

I love this for Portland. I understand that pariticular fanbase maybe not having the stomach for the injury risk, but you get a guy of that caliber that cheap? I mean I feel like you have to take that opportunity because even if he doesn't work out his contract has outs and you haven't given up any premium assets.

Premium assets? Perhaps not. But sacrificing Camara and a mid-first definitely hurts if Zion amounts to what we've seen so far or worse. It's not just a fanbase having no stomach for injury risk: it's the particular guy we're talking about. The right team to chase "a guy of that caliber that cheap" is a team for whom he represents the promise of pushing them over the top. A team in need of a reliable franchise cornerstone is not the right home for Zion.

Sure.

OTOH if Portland is going to value retaining Camara and Deni. Keep a bunch of veterans and Billups keeps them playing this hard, what is the path to the reliable franchise cornerstone? I don't believe you guys still see Sharpe or Scoot as turning into that guy, right? So where does he come from?

This gives you a chance at a cornerstone. Yes, a bunch of injury risk, concern about how much he loves basketball and putting in the work on his body to stay healthier, but man that offensive upside.....

I'd do it. I mean at that price, Dallas could trade for him, and I would absolutely say do that and let him be the offensive engine until Kyrie is back. Yes its a terrible bet on the health of AD,Zion, Kryie, but the upside is so high and Dallas has no way to get a less flawed guy without Flagg and unless Giannis wants to come to Dallas, there probably isn't anyone available worth dealing Flagg for.

[Myth]

if he doesn't work out his contract has outs

Aren’t the outs essentially you have to completely cut him to save money? So if he continues to only play 35 games per year, we are perpetually having to ask ourselves “what’s better? Continuing to wait and see if he is healthy next year? Or cut him for nothing?” That’s not the position I want to give up Camara and a late lotto pick for. You used the phrase “what is the path to the reliable franchise cornerstone?” Given that Zion is about as unreliable as can be, I do not believe he is that path. If Blazers want a swing at a star, I’d rather use Camara and 11 to move up in the draft and take a much cheaper swing than cross my fingers that Zion will somehow get more healthy after 6 years in the league.

[Village Idiot]

I love this for Portland. I understand that pariticular fanbase maybe not having the stomach for the injury risk, but you get a guy of that caliber that cheap? I mean I feel like you have to take that opportunity because even if he doesn't work out his contract has outs and you haven't given up any premium assets.

Premium assets? Perhaps not. But sacrificing Camara and a mid-first definitely hurts if Zion amounts to what we've seen so far or worse. It's not just a fanbase having no stomach for injury risk: it's the particular guy we're talking about. The right team to chase "a guy of that caliber that cheap" is a team for whom he represents the promise of pushing them over the top. A team in need of a reliable franchise cornerstone is not the right home for Zion.

Sure.

OTOH if Portland is going to value retaining Camara and Deni. Keep a bunch of veterans and Billups keeps them playing this hard, what is the path to the reliable franchise cornerstone? I don't believe you guys still see Sharpe or Scoot as turning into that guy, right? So where does he come from?

This gives you a chance at a cornerstone. Yes, a bunch of injury risk, concern about how much he loves basketball and putting in the work on his body to stay healthier, but man that offensive upside.....

I'd do it. I mean at that price, Dallas could trade for him, and I would absolutely say do that and let him be the offensive engine until Kyrie is back. Yes its a terrible bet on the health of AD,Zion, Kryie, but the upside is so high and Dallas has no way to get a less flawed guy without Flagg and unless Giannis wants to come to Dallas, there probably isn't anyone available worth dealing Flagg for.

This reminds me of the conversations this board had a few years ago regarding Portland trading for Ben Simmons and our almost unanimous dislike of the concept unless it was for very cheap. Zion has so many similarities to Simmons except that his limitations are equally physical and mental. If a guy doesn't love the game, doesn´t have the desire to continuously improve and treat his body like a temple then he´s never going to reach his potential. Zion, like Simmons, ticks none of those boxes. I am very happy to keep Camara until a really strong offer comes along.