Golden State & Washington

ReggiesKnicks · Post #1 » by **ReggiesKnicks** » Mon May 26, 2025 3:31 pm

Double Sign-and-Trade

Golden State Out: Jonathan Kuminga (4/110)
Washington Out: Khris Middleton (3/66, 2026 Fully Guaranteed, 2027 75% Guaranteed, 2028 50% Guaranteed), 2030 GSW 1st (21-30)

Golden State hard-caps themselves at the 1st apron but brings in a veteran to help put them over the top. They get control of their 2030 Pick, which means Golden State has full control of their picks from 2026 onward.

Middleton opts out of his 34 Million Player Option in order to get moved to a contender. He is guaranteed an extra 13 million on his new contract, split over multiple years. Washington gets another youthful Warrior who showed much of his potential in the Minnesota series as a slasher/scorer who plays the 3-4.

Godaddycurse · Post #2 » by **Godaddycurse** » Mon May 26, 2025 3:37 pm

Kuminga is not worth that much and def not worth a FRP on top

mhd · Post #3 » by **mhd** » Mon May 26, 2025 3:48 pm

The Wizards have zero desire to try and win this upcoming season as their pick is top 8 protected (otherwise it’s goes to the Knicks). They will not try and acquire any meaningful contributors that could put that pick in danger.

Also, Bilal, George, and Sarr will get all the forward minutes for developmental purposes. Kuminga provides no use as his presence hinders that. If the Wizards are trading Middleton (and Smart for that matter) expiring deals, they will want picks in return for bad contracts.

Post #4 » by **nate33** » Mon May 26, 2025 3:49 pm

I'm not sure Kuminga has any trade value after signing a market-value contract so I don't think Golden State can get anything back in return. That said, that 2030 FRP is mostly just a fake asset anyhow. Golden State surely won't be a top 10 team by then so the protections on that pick will kick in and Golden State will retain the pick. So maybe this deal is reasonable: Kuminga only has fake trade value, so Golden State is only getting back a fake trade return.

I might do this from the Wizards' perspective. I think that Kuminga contract is pretty steep though. Maybe something more like 4/90 is reasonable.

Post #5 » by **Mavrelous** » Mon May 26, 2025 3:57 pm

Yeah, the deal with 80-90/4 contract makes sense, preferably front loaded, GSW sends a 2nd back to compensate for the pick.

Nate the Great · Post #6 » by **Nate the Great** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:06 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:Kuminga is not worth that much and def not worth a FRP on top

He’s not worth a bad contract for a player who can’t stay healthy and a distant protected first? Wow, you really hate the guy.

Godaddycurse · Post #7 » by **Godaddycurse** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:08 pm

Nate the Great wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Kuminga is not worth that much and def not worth a FRP on top

He’s not worth a bad contract for a player who can’t stay healthy and a distant protected first? Wow, you really hate the guy.

i was referring to that contract of 4/110 actually. If i had to pay him that contract i'm definitely not adding a first to give him that much money

JRoy · Post #8 » by **JRoy** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:09 pm

Kuminga is fools gold. It would be a mistake to pay him that kind of money and include a pick for his services.

HornetJail · Post #9 » by **HornetJail** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:09 pm

Nate the Great wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Kuminga is not worth that much and def not worth a FRP on top

He’s not worth a bad contract for a player who can’t stay healthy and a distant protected first? Wow, you really hate the guy.

I think I'd comfortably rather have Khris Middleton at 22M/year over Kuminga at 27M/year, even if Middleton is a part-time player at this point in time. if that makes me a hater, then so be it

xdrta+ · Post #10 » by **xdrta+** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:21 pm

ReggiesKnicks wrote:Golden State hard-caps themselves at the 1st apron

That hard-cap makes things difficult. As their roster stands now, adding Middleton at $22M leaves them $3M under with 10 players.

Post #11 » by **gswhoops** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:22 pm

HornetJail wrote:
Nate the Great wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Kuminga is not worth that much and def not worth a FRP on top

He’s not worth a bad contract for a player who can’t stay healthy and a distant protected first? Wow, you really hate the guy.

I think I'd comfortably rather have Khris Middleton at 22M/year over Kuminga at 27M/year, even if Middleton is a part-time player at this point in time. if that makes me a hater, then so be it

Part-time is generous. Middleton is cooked.

Would rather just let JK walk if this is the best we can do.

HornetJail · Post #12 » by **HornetJail** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:23 pm

gswhoops wrote:
HornetJail wrote:
Nate the Great wrote:
He’s not worth a bad contract for a player who can’t stay healthy and a distant protected first? Wow, you really hate the guy.

I think I'd comfortably rather have Khris Middleton at 22M/year over Kuminga at 27M/year, even if Middleton is a part-time player at this point in time. if that makes me a hater, then so be it

Part-time is generous. Middleton is cooked.

Would rather just let JK walk if this is the best we can do.

i wouldn't disagree, i think both are realistically negative value contracts

Post #13 » by **nate33** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:34 pm

gswhoops wrote:Middleton is cooked.

I had assumed this when the Wizards traded Kuzma for his contract, but was pleasantly surprised to learn that this isn't quite the case. Yes, he is injury prone and can no longer log 33 minutes a night, but he still is a surprisingly effective player when he is on the court. Go look at his on/off differentials. His team has been significantly better with him on the floor rather than off for every year of his career but one. Even in these last 3 injury-riddled seasons, he has posted substantially positive on/off differentials. It's kind of freaky.

The guy is still a pretty good player. He just can't be relied upon to be available. If Golden State could load manage him for the regular season and dust him off for the playoffs, he could still be a helpful player. Note, I'm not saying Golden State should absolutely do this. I'll leave that to Golden State fans who better understand their situation and other realistic options. I'm only saying that Middleton is only semi-cooked, but not fully cooked. In the right context, I honestly believe he can still be helpful player.

Post #14 » by **gswhoops** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:36 pm

HornetJail wrote:
gswhoops wrote:
HornetJail wrote:I think I'd comfortably rather have Khris Middleton at 22M/year over Kuminga at 27M/year, even if Middleton is a part-time player at this point in time. if that makes me a hater, then so be it

Part-time is generous. Middleton is cooked.

Would rather just let JK walk if this is the best we can do.

i wouldn't disagree, i think both are realistically negative value contracts

For whatever it's worth, it's not a spiteful "I'd rather just let him walk than take this deal." The apron rules are a pretty significant factor here. We're ~$25M under the first apron line without JK. So if we do this deal, it's essentially our entire offseason. We'd basically have to fill out the rest of the roster with minimum players.

I'd rather try and keep Loon and/or GP2 on reasonable deals and use the full MLE to bring in another contributor than put all our eggs into hoping that Middleton can be healthy and effective for 50+ RS games and the playoffs.

Post #15 » by **gswhoops** » Mon May 26, 2025 4:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
gswhoops wrote:Middleton is cooked.

I had assumed this when the Wizards traded Kuzma for his contract, but was pleasantly surprised to learn that this isn't quite the case. Yes, he is injury prone and can no longer log 33 minutes a night, but he still is a surprisingly effective player when he is on the court. Go look at his on/off differentials. His team has been significantly better with him on the floor rather than off for every year of his career but one. Even in these last 3 injury-riddled seasons, he has posted substantially positive on/off differentials. It's kind of freaky.

The guy is still a pretty good player. He just can't be relied upon to be available. If Golden State could load manage him for the regular season and dust him off for the playoffs, he could still be a helpful player. Note, I'm not saying Golden State should absolutely do this. I'll leave that to Golden State fans who better understand their situation and other realistic options. I'm only saying that Middleton is only semi-cooked, but not fully cooked. In the right context, I honestly believe he can still be helpful player.

That's helpful context. Unfortunately since this deal would mean that we're hard capped at the first apron, we'd need him to be a full-time player (see my post above).

If we could get him on a MLE-level deal and load manage him like you said, it'd be a different analysis.

Lenneth · Post #16 » by **Lenneth** » Mon May 26, 2025 5:56 pm

Dont' see Warriors doing it. No way Warriors would give Middleton 3 years contract at this point, and they really can't afford his current 33 mils/1 year either. Warriors aren't locking them to the first apron for Middleton. Warriors technically traded 2030 1st rounder to Wiz, but it's top 1-20 protected, and becomes a 2nd rounder, if not conveyed. So, Warriors aren't in a hurry to get that pick back either.

ReggiesKnicks · Post #17 » by **ReggiesKnicks** » Mon May 26, 2025 5:59 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:Kuminga is not worth that much and def not worth a FRP on top

It's not really a full 1st. It only goes to Washington 21-30.

ReggiesKnicks · Post #18 » by **ReggiesKnicks** » Mon May 26, 2025 6:00 pm

Mavrelous wrote:Yeah, the deal with 80-90/4 contract makes sense, preferably front loaded, GSW sends a 2nd back to compensate for the pick.

Golden State doesn't have any 2nds and the 1st is a fake 1st.

Post #19 » by **Mavrelous** » Mon May 26, 2025 6:12 pm

ReggiesKnicks wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Yeah, the deal with 80-90/4 contract makes sense, preferably front loaded, GSW sends a 2nd back to compensate for the pick.

Golden State doesn't have any 2nds and the 1st is a fake 1st.

The 1st turns to 2030 2nd if not conveyed, this 2nd should go to WAS.

ReggiesKnicks · Post #20 » by **ReggiesKnicks** » Mon May 26, 2025 6:13 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Yeah, the deal with 80-90/4 contract makes sense, preferably front loaded, GSW sends a 2nd back to compensate for the pick.

Golden State doesn't have any 2nds and the 1st is a fake 1st.

The 1st turns to 2030 2nd if not conveyed, this 2nd should go to WAS.

Oh sure that's fine. Ultimately the deal seems DOA given the cap constraints.