Cavs, Spurs and Rockets

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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#21 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:06 am

tidho wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:There is no reason for the Cavs to remotely entertain trading mitchell in my opinion.

their roster construction is flawed, that's why you entertain it

they have no reason to give him away, but if trading for fair value there are few untouchables in the league and Mitchell certainly isn't one of them

Trade Garland, not Donovan. One is a top 15 player who sometimes plays like a top 5 player, the other is a really nice but small point guard who isn't an ideal fit with one of the most transcendent scorers in the league today.

God I miss him on my team lol
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#22 » by Blame Rasho » Mon Jun 23, 2025 1:30 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
tidho wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:There is no reason for the Cavs to remotely entertain trading mitchell in my opinion.

their roster construction is flawed, that's why you entertain it

they have no reason to give him away, but if trading for fair value there are few untouchables in the league and Mitchell certainly isn't one of them

Trade Garland, not Donovan. One is a top 15 player who sometimes plays like a top 5 player, the other is a really nice but small point guard who isn't an ideal fit with one of the most transcendent scorers in the league today.

God I miss him on my team lol


Top 5 player? Umm no… I get hyperbole to make a point but at his apex he has never been that. I mean might as well say Booker was a top 5 player as well at one point.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#23 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 1:42 pm

Blame Rasho wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
tidho wrote:their roster construction is flawed, that's why you entertain it

they have no reason to give him away, but if trading for fair value there are few untouchables in the league and Mitchell certainly isn't one of them

Trade Garland, not Donovan. One is a top 15 player who sometimes plays like a top 5 player, the other is a really nice but small point guard who isn't an ideal fit with one of the most transcendent scorers in the league today.

God I miss him on my team lol


Top 5 player? Umm no… I get hyperbole to make a point but at his apex he has never been that. I mean might as well say Booker was a top 5 player as well at one point.

"Who sometimes plays like a top 5 player"
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#24 » by Blame Rasho » Mon Jun 23, 2025 1:44 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Trade Garland, not Donovan. One is a top 15 player who sometimes plays like a top 5 player, the other is a really nice but small point guard who isn't an ideal fit with one of the most transcendent scorers in the league today.

God I miss him on my team lol


Top 5 player? Umm no… I get hyperbole to make a point but at his apex he has never been that. I mean might as well say Booker was a top 5 player as well at one point.

"Who sometimes plays like a top 5 player"


Yeah he has never played like a top 5 player…
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#25 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:05 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
tidho wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:There is no reason for the Cavs to remotely entertain trading mitchell in my opinion.

their roster construction is flawed, that's why you entertain it

they have no reason to give him away, but if trading for fair value there are few untouchables in the league and Mitchell certainly isn't one of them

Trade Garland, not Donovan. One is a top 15 player who sometimes plays like a top 5 player, the other is a really nice but small point guard who isn't an ideal fit with one of the most transcendent scorers in the league today.

God I miss him on my team lol


The thing is the Cavs dropped the first two at home against the Pacers without Garland. With both Garland and Mitchell healthy, the Cavs are a nightmare for opposing teams.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#26 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:07 pm

Blame Rasho wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:
Top 5 player? Umm no… I get hyperbole to make a point but at his apex he has never been that. I mean might as well say Booker was a top 5 player as well at one point.

"Who sometimes plays like a top 5 player"


Yeah he has never played like a top 5 player…

Ever look at his playoff stats? Ever see him go on a 10 game stretch averaging over 30ppg? Ever seen him score over 50? He has stretches where he is incredible and absolutely on par with the best of what almost anyone in the league can do.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#27 » by tidho » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:13 pm

jbk1234 wrote:With both Garland and Mitchell healthy, the Cavs are a nightmare for opposing teams.


Yeah in the regular season when the team can afford to keep minutes low enough that they're staggered more often than not so they don't get absolutely abused defensively.

In the playoffs they're just two really skilled offensive talents that get bullied into being less effective while providing the opposition with switch targets on the other end. Could be wrong though, has only happened three years in a row.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#28 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:20 pm

tidho wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:With both Garland and Mitchell healthy, the Cavs are a nightmare for opposing teams.


Yeah in the regular season when the team can afford to keep minutes low enough that they're staggered more often than not so they don't get absolutely abused defensively.

In the playoffs they're just two really skilled offensive talents that get bullied into being less effective while providing the opposition with switch targets on the other end. Could be wrong though, has only happened three years in a row.


I'm talking about in the playoffs. Neither Mitchell nor Garland has shown they can win without the other against good competition which is where the prevailing narrative about defense being the problem kind of takes a hit.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#29 » by bgrep14 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:48 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
tidho wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:With both Garland and Mitchell healthy, the Cavs are a nightmare for opposing teams.


Yeah in the regular season when the team can afford to keep minutes low enough that they're staggered more often than not so they don't get absolutely abused defensively.

In the playoffs they're just two really skilled offensive talents that get bullied into being less effective while providing the opposition with switch targets on the other end. Could be wrong though, has only happened three years in a row.


I'm talking about in the playoffs. Neither Mitchell nor Garland has shown they can win without the other against good competition which is where the prevailing narrative about defense being the problem kind of takes a hit.


They haven’t shown they can win meaningful basketball with eachother for 3 years. No clue where you’re getting a nightmare for opposing defenses unless you’re referring to the regular season. Cavs have been bullied out 3 years in a row by Indy, Celtics, and Knicks. This won’t change until they get bigger and stronger and this all starts with moving Garland for someone bigger.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#30 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 3:06 pm

bgrep14 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
tidho wrote:
Yeah in the regular season when the team can afford to keep minutes low enough that they're staggered more often than not so they don't get absolutely abused defensively.

In the playoffs they're just two really skilled offensive talents that get bullied into being less effective while providing the opposition with switch targets on the other end. Could be wrong though, has only happened three years in a row.


I'm talking about in the playoffs. Neither Mitchell nor Garland has shown they can win without the other against good competition which is where the prevailing narrative about defense being the problem kind of takes a hit.


They haven’t shown they can win meaningful basketball with eachother for 3 years. No clue where you’re getting a nightmare for opposing defenses unless you’re referring to the regular season. Cavs have been bullied out 3 years in a row by Indy, Celtics, and Knicks. This won’t change until they get bigger and stronger and this all starts with moving Garland for someone bigger.


Garland was responsible for our only win against the Knicks. Garland and Mitchell were on the court when we won game 2 against the Celtics (then Mitchell got hurt). Garland's first game back against the Pacers was our only win against them (and that was with Garland trying to play on one foot).

The reality is that when Mitchell feels like he has to do it all on offense, things get choppy, Mobley tends to disappear from the offense, and Mitchell's defense drops off a cliff due to fatigue. It's why that JR poster keeps trying Mitchell (also a mistake).

None of our core guys were responsible for Ty Jerome having a truly awful series. He was our big injury insurance card and the claim got denied.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Cavs, Spurs and Rockets 

Post#31 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 23, 2025 3:09 pm

tidho wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:With both Garland and Mitchell healthy, the Cavs are a nightmare for opposing teams.


Yeah in the regular season when the team can afford to keep minutes low enough that they're staggered more often than not so they don't get absolutely abused defensively.

In the playoffs they're just two really skilled offensive talents that get bullied into being less effective while providing the opposition with switch targets on the other end. Could be wrong though, has only happened three years in a row.

Did you actually watch the games, pay attention to injuries, or anything? There was nothing from either playoff loss where I said "the issue is that the Cavs have two small guards out there". The issues were injuries. The issues were bad shooting. The issues were the other teams simply being too good for a margin for error. The issues were slow defensive rotations. The issues were players not getting open off-ball. The issues were Haliburton sinking deep 3s on switches against Jarrett Allen. The issues were players trying to shoot out of their personal 3-point slump instead of the high-efficiency shots that the bigs were getting.

I don't have "two small guards" on the list, from what I personally watched.

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