Gobert on the move to the East

[schaffy]

So Minny is paying 55 million for 2 PFs. Either way they have a ton of assets invested both $$$ and draft wise into PF and C.

The current roster structure largely makes sense as is. Ironically, Minnesota could do with a back-up Center (albeit, not as much as they need a real answer at Point-Guard).

Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Jaylen Clark
Jaden McDaniels / Terrence Shannon Jr.
Julius Randle / Naz Reid / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Joan Beringer / Rocco Zikarsky (2WP)

There are 96 minutes between Power-Forward and Center which will likely be largely monopolized by Naz Reid, Julius Randle, and Rudy Gobert. The eighteen year old Joan Beringer is not going to be taking up many minutes. Naz Reid is making 14% of the salary cap, which roughly makes sense for a sixth-man.

1. Mike is not a starting quality PG anymore.

2. Dilly is not a backup quality PG on a contender. We will shoe horn him in, but that will be a problem.

3. Joan by the end of the season will likely be a capable enough backup C. His size and athleticism means we need to give him a legit chance to develop, even if it lowers our seeding.

4. Randle being traded is more likely than Rudy, but I would move both, and build a team that plays five out and focuses on creating opportunities for Ant on and off ball.

Conley might be the starter in name only this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see DDV with more on-ball minutes this year to get Clark and TSJ on the court more at the 2/3. You might want some 30+ mpg starting PG. They dont have that and I'm not entirely sure thats what they need either. They'll piece it together with Conley/Dilly/DDV/Ant and go from there. Especially with Randle providing more creation for others from the PF spot as he gets another year with everyone else around him. We dont know what Dillingham is yet -- he didnt play much last year and was hurt. He very well could come back this year and look like a real quality backup PG already. You are predicting problems and stating them as fact.

I'm honestly a bit confused how you are so quick to write of Dillingham already but so eager to jump all on-board an even younger player as going to be rotation ready. JB is really raw. He might be the backup C but it would be a bit surprising to see him as a capable backup by end of year given his limited experience as a basketball player. Lots of potential with him long term. I would expect very little impact short term.

[winforlose]

The current roster structure largely makes sense as is. Ironically, Minnesota could do with a back-up Center (albeit, not as much as they need a real answer at Point-Guard).

Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Jaylen Clark
Jaden McDaniels / Terrence Shannon Jr.
Julius Randle / Naz Reid / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Joan Beringer / Rocco Zikarsky (2WP)

There are 96 minutes between Power-Forward and Center which will likely be largely monopolized by Naz Reid, Julius Randle, and Rudy Gobert. The eighteen year old Joan Beringer is not going to be taking up many minutes. Naz Reid is making 14% of the salary cap, which roughly makes sense for a sixth-man.

1. Mike is not a starting quality PG anymore.

2. Dilly is not a backup quality PG on a contender. We will shoe horn him in, but that will be a problem.

3. Joan by the end of the season will likely be a capable enough backup C. His size and athleticism means we need to give him a legit chance to develop, even if it lowers our seeding.

4. Randle being traded is more likely than Rudy, but I would move both, and build a team that plays five out and focuses on creating opportunities for Ant on and off ball.

Conley might be the starter in name only this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see DDV with more on-ball minutes this year to get Clark and TSJ on the court more at the 2/3. You might want some 30+ mpg starting PG. They dont have that and I'm not entirely sure thats what they need either. They'll piece it together with Conley/Dilly/DDV/Ant and go from there. Especially with Randle providing more creation for others from the PF spot as he gets another year with everyone else around him. We dont know what Dillingham is yet -- he didnt play much last year and was hurt. He very well could come back this year and look like a real quality backup PG already. You are predicting problems and stating them as fact.

I'm honestly a bit confused how you are so quick to write of Dillingham already but so eager to jump all on-board an even younger player as going to be rotation ready. JB is really raw. He might be the backup C but it would be a bit surprising to see him as a capable backup by end of year given his limited experience as a basketball player. Lots of potential with him long term. I would expect very little impact short term.

JB has all the physical tools. He needs refining, but he has only been playing for 4 years up to this point. His upside is untapped. Also it is easier to play backup C than any other position.

Dilly is extremely undersized in the NBA. His skills are below average in almost every expected category. His finishing at the rim is a major issue, his mid range and 3 point shot were below expectations, his defense is much more Jordan McLaughlin little ninja than Mike Conley pest. Rob might turn into something, but he has the unfortunate pressure of trying to do it on a team trying to win a chip, with a coach famous for punishing and bullying young players when they make a mistake. I don’t expect Dilly to develop this year or on this team for that matter. If he gets traded to a bad team he has a much better chance. Either way, to assume he will go from where he was to where we need him to be is… dubious at best.

[jscott]

I don’t see this for MN. As others have pointed out:

1) Naz is not a Center and the Wolves don’t have another ready to start
2) Randle would be dealt if you think they’ve got too much invested at PF
3) This deal doesn’t do anything to address current issues on the roster

[Klomp]

The writing could be on wall for Gobert, Minnesota is set to be over the first apron this year. They just drafted two centers in the draft and paid Naz Reid and Julius Randle. They are roughly at 200 million right now with 13 players under contract- first apron 196 million.

1. The two rookies they drafted might be two of the most raw prospects in the class.
2. What does re-signing two forwards have to do with a center?
3. $4 million under an apron with essentially only one spot to fill (most teams leave one slot open) is a pretty ideal place to be.

[YayBasketball]

Gobert to Pelicans for Murray + Missi.
Alvarado/Hawkins can be added for Conley, if needed.

Wolves get starting PG in Murray, due back in December or January, plus get a young starting Center.
Pels get a defensive foundation to cement their playoff hopes the next few years, clear the PG minutes for Fears.

[jscott]

Gobert to Pelicans for Murray + Missi.
Alvarado/Hawkins can be added for Conley, if needed.

Wolves get starting PG in Murray, due back in December or January, plus get a young starting Center.
Pels get a defensive foundation to cement their playoff hopes the next few years, clear the PG minutes for Fears.

Murray is not a net positive player. Wolves pass.

[Mavrelous]

Insane overpay for Gobert, I understand you want to force Wolves to get worse and trade him, that doesn't make it a good business for the Hornets.

[YayBasketball]

Gobert to Pelicans for Murray + Missi.
Alvarado/Hawkins can be added for Conley, if needed.

Wolves get starting PG in Murray, due back in December or January, plus get a young starting Center.
Pels get a defensive foundation to cement their playoff hopes the next few years, clear the PG minutes for Fears.

Murray is not a net positive player. Wolves pass.

Right. The inclusion of Missi is an attempt to balance the value.

[jscott]

Gobert to Pelicans for Murray + Missi.
Alvarado/Hawkins can be added for Conley, if needed.

Wolves get starting PG in Murray, due back in December or January, plus get a young starting Center.
Pels get a defensive foundation to cement their playoff hopes the next few years, clear the PG minutes for Fears.

Murray is not a net positive player. Wolves pass.

Right. The inclusion of Missi is an attempt to balance the value.

Fair but I don’t think 30m a year for 4 years of Murray is worth it. Thats a huge chunk of underperforming cap even with Missi’s inclusion.

And honestly, maybe I’m in the minority but I just see Murray as a dude I wouldn’t want on my team.

[YayBasketball]

Fair but I don’t think 30m a year for 4 years of Murray is worth it. Thats a huge chunk of underperforming cap even with Missi’s inclusion.

And honestly, maybe I’m in the minority but I just see Murray as a dude I wouldn’t want on my team.

Correction: 30m a year for *3 years ( 2 years plus player option the last year). Gotta be accurate to have a strong opinion stance

And I get it. I'm not thrilled with him on my favorite team either. And this all assumes that he will return from his injury still performing at a good level, which aound slike the likely outcome with his age and recent medical advances. But still scary for fans without seeing it.

Still, healthy, he's probably viewed as a starting level PG for real GMs, especially for a team without a clear starter there already like the Wolves.

[jayjaysee]

I think this is what it would cost to get Minnesota to talk about if they should trade Rudy. Still don’t think they should do it, but the value is good enough. Really need a third team to get Minn a player at either position they need help at though.

Charlotte bringing in Rudy would save the defense (they don’t have one) and should be really good experience for the kids.

[shrink]

Naz Reid is not a Center. He is a big forward who can poorly play Center in short stints.

So Minny is paying 55 million for 2 PFs. Either way they have a ton of assets invested both $$$ and draft wise into PF and C.

They were paying it for one. Part of the reason to make the KAT trade was to pay Naz’ next salary.

[shrink]

Charlotte sends: Grant Williams, Josh Green, Moussa Diabate, Dallas 2027 1st (top 2 protected), Miami 2027 1st (Lottery Protected, or unprotected next year) 2029 First (worst of Utah, Minnesota, Cleveland) and 3 2nds.

Charlotte has 11 firsts over the next 7 drafts, they have 14 2nd round picks.

If MIN was starting a rebuild, interested in getting off of Gobert, this is probably the structure of an offer they might look for, a face-saving deal that included picks. However, adding three seconds and calling it “six picks” isn’t going to carry much extra value. Gobert is worth less now, but MIN traded away unprotected and lightly protected first round picks and swaps, so a pile of picks that are unlikely to amount to much makes it a harder sell.

If a GM is trading a key piece and get worse (which MIN is not), the GM usually needs to receive a key young piece to sell to the fanbase and owner. Ironically, the Utah trade of Gobert was an exception to the rule, (though Danny Ainge tried very hard to get Jaden McDaniels), so it took multiple, better, picks to get a deal done.

I don’t think it’s impossible to make a Gobert offer, but he is pretty important to the Wolves playoff success. Neither Naz or Randle are good defenders, and both need a good defender behind them. Gobert-Naz was the Wolves best two-man pairing last year in Net Rating. A more likely Gobert trade would be an offer like this with a third, rebuilding team involved, like BRK for Claxton. But CHA might prefer the younger, lesser Claxton themselves if they aren’t contending right now, so ..

[JMAC3]

The writing could be on wall for Gobert, Minnesota is set to be over the first apron this year. They just drafted two centers in the draft and paid Naz Reid and Julius Randle. They are roughly at 200 million right now with 13 players under contract- first apron 196 million.

1. The two rookies they drafted might be two of the most raw prospects in the class.
2. What does re-signing two forwards have to do with a center?
3. $4 million under an apron with essentially only one spot to fill (most teams leave one slot open) is a pretty ideal place to be.

Yeah, they are 4 million OVER the first apron right now with 13 guys signed.
Either way Minny doesn't have to do anything, but this would have given them options and breathing room from being a tax team this year and in the future.

[Domejandro]

The writing could be on wall for Gobert, Minnesota is set to be over the first apron this year. They just drafted two centers in the draft and paid Naz Reid and Julius Randle. They are roughly at 200 million right now with 13 players under contract- first apron 196 million.

1. The two rookies they drafted might be two of the most raw prospects in the class.
2. What does re-signing two forwards have to do with a center?
3. $4 million under an apron with essentially only one spot to fill (most teams leave one slot open) is a pretty ideal place to be.

Yeah, they are 4 million OVER the first apron right now with 13 guys signed.
Either way Minny doesn't have to do anything, but this would have given them options and breathing room from being a tax team this year and in the future.

For what it is worth, I would be more interested if this was structured to duck them under the Luxury-Tax (though I would personally still pass), but there really isn't much value for the team to duck under the First Apron while simultaneously nuking their chances of staying competitive.

Value is largely fair, but directionally and roster construction wise, I just don't see it making sense. The only thing that Minnesota desperately needed to duck was the Second Apron, which they have succeeded in doing.

[JMAC3]

1. The two rookies they drafted might be two of the most raw prospects in the class.
2. What does re-signing two forwards have to do with a center?
3. $4 million under an apron with essentially only one spot to fill (most teams leave one slot open) is a pretty ideal place to be.

Yeah, they are 4 million OVER the first apron right now with 13 guys signed.
Either way Minny doesn't have to do anything, but this would have given them options and breathing room from being a tax team this year and in the future.

For what it is worth, I would be more interested if this was structured to duck them under the Luxury-Tax (though I would personally still pass), but there really isn't much value for the team to duck under the First Apron while simultaneously nuking their chances of staying competitive.

Value is largely fair, but directionally and roster construction wise, I just don't see it making sense. The only thing that Minnesota desperately needed to duck was the Second Apron, which they have succeeded in doing.

Minny could duck the tax altogether by trading Green or Grant Williams after this trade. Both fit into MLE and they could attach some of those new 2nd rounders to them to probably get that done.

I agree this is probably an overpay for Gobert, because next year he will be 34 and I think his trade value likely goes way down. If Minny was going to move him I think now is really their last chance to get more than minimal value back for him (expiring and maybe weak first).

[Cappy_Smurf]

Insane overpay for Gobert,.

Deja vu

I seem to remember reading something like this before Minny went to 2 WCF in a row.

[Mavrelous]

Insane overpay for Gobert,.

Deja vu

I seem to remember reading something like this before Minny went to 2 WCF in a row.

And? Theybaren't trading for Edwards, McDaniels and Gobert, and great bench of NAW, Reid and DDV, are they now?

[winforlose]

Yeah, they are 4 million OVER the first apron right now with 13 guys signed.
Either way Minny doesn't have to do anything, but this would have given them options and breathing room from being a tax team this year and in the future.

For what it is worth, I would be more interested if this was structured to duck them under the Luxury-Tax (though I would personally still pass), but there really isn't much value for the team to duck under the First Apron while simultaneously nuking their chances of staying competitive.

Value is largely fair, but directionally and roster construction wise, I just don't see it making sense. The only thing that Minnesota desperately needed to duck was the Second Apron, which they have succeeded in doing.

Minny could duck the tax altogether by trading Green or Grant Williams after this trade. Both fit into MLE and they could attach some of those new 2nd rounders to them to probably get that done.

I agree this is probably an overpay for Gobert, because next year he will be 34 and I think his trade value likely goes way down. If Minny was going to move him I think now is really their last chance to get more than minimal value back for him (expiring and maybe weak first).

Again, Ant just turned 24 and is on the rise. The Wolves don’t control their picks in 26, 27, 29, 30, and 31. Why on earth would they try and save money after a WCF run (the 2nd in two years.) It is very hard to add salary under the new CBA. Trading for draft capital and salary relief makes little sense when you have glaring roster construction issues. You want to acquire Gobert specifically, then find a team with a starting PG willing to move him for that pick package, and then find a lesser C for the Wolves to use in the next 2/3 years while their rookies develop.

[Wolveswin]

Randle should be player on the move.

Which team(s) see him as PF upgrade? Then will forward said asset(s) to third team for a PG upgrade.

AN EXAMPLE only:

To Pistons: Randle/DDV for Harris/???

With ??? being other players/assets to 3rd team for starting level PG upgrade for Wolves (which if young big upside player from third team - Dillingham can be added out).