Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[penbeast0]

He’s worth the $80-$90 mil the Kings and Suns are willing to pay and offer starting role and minutes to. I think those teams are more exception than rule.

The value is determined by the team that wants him, not the one trying to move him’s view. GS boasts the best example of that over the past decade+ in Jimmy Butler. He wanted out and teams wanted him gone too. None trading him got equal value, but they got some value. Kings and Suns aren’t offering any value imo.

Things like the unprotected first and Murray are unrealistic counters to lowball offers imo

I was looking at what the Wiz might offer and the best I was realistically willing to commit was CJ McCollum plus two young players we picked up cheap but who have shown some NBA offensive skills in Cam Whitmore and AJ Johnson for Kuminga and Moody. He accepts a 30 million/year declining deal (so he can retain trade value if it doesn't work out well) to allow him and his agent to say he got his asking price. Wiz can give him a real shot at the starting 4 and the Warriors use Whitmore the way they were going to use Kuminga as bench scoring forward.

And first counter I got from that on the Wiz board was that we shouldn't overpay.

[ChuckDurn]

He’s worth the $80-$90 mil the Kings and Suns are willing to pay and offer starting role and minutes to. I think those teams are more exception than rule.

The value is determined by the team that wants him, not the one trying to move him’s view. GS boasts the best example of that over the past decade+ in Jimmy Butler. He wanted out and teams wanted him gone too. None trading him got equal value, but they got some value. Kings and Suns aren’t offering any value imo.

Things like the unprotected first and Murray are unrealistic counters to lowball offers imo

I was looking at what the Wiz might offer and the best I was realistically willing to commit was CJ McCollum plus two young players we picked up cheap but who have shown some NBA offensive skills in Cam Whitmore and AJ Johnson for Kuminga and Moody. He accepts a 30 million/year declining deal (so he can retain trade value if it doesn't work out well) to allow him and his agent to say he got his asking price. Wiz can give him a real shot at the starting 4 and the Warriors use Whitmore the way they were going to use Kuminga as bench scoring forward.

And first counter I got from that on the Wiz board was that we shouldn't overpay.

It wouldn’t work anyway from the Warriors’ perspective, because of base year compensation rules. If the Wizards sign Kuminga for $30M, the Warriors only are able to count half of that ($15M) for trade salary-matching purposes, so there’s way too big an imbalance…… the Warriors would have to send way more salary out to offset that (which they’re not going to do), etc……

From a practical perspective, the most Salary the Warriors could take back in virtually any Kuminga deal is probably $12-15M, depending on the details. But obviously not anything like McCollum’s $30M.

[LightTheBeam]

He’s worth the $80-$90 mil the Kings and Suns are willing to pay and offer starting role and minutes to. I think those teams are more exception than rule.

The value is determined by the team that wants him, not the one trying to move him’s view. GS boasts the best example of that over the past decade+ in Jimmy Butler. He wanted out and teams wanted him gone too. None trading him got equal value, but they got some value. Kings and Suns aren’t offering any value imo.

Things like the unprotected first and Murray are unrealistic counters to lowball offers imo

We are so far off on this one I don't even know where to begin.

Comparing Jimmy Butler who is still one of the best 20 players in the league, has taken a team to two finals the past 5 years to Jonathan Kuminga is not something I thought Id see today.

And funny enough the packages are very similar. Warriors dumped bad salary + a top 10 protected 1st.

Getting a protected 1st (even if its heavily protected) is not zero value.

A heavily protected to the point that even Sacramento media (Matt George) said it wouldn’t convey and would likely be two seconds is pretty much no value. Heck, the Suns offer is better than that (at least O’neale and Richards have shown to be players in the NBA-which Carter hasn’t and they’d give more 2nds) and it’s horrible.

No one said Butler and Kuminga are close, but Butler did everything short of set arenas on fire and it didn’t prevent teams from having to give something of value. Kuminga, who didn’t provide drama and worth giving $80 mil and a starter spot to isn’t worth any? Better off keeping him then imo

Kuminga isn't worth 80 today. Realistically the only 2 teams chasing him down are ran by the 2 worst owners in the league.

And I'm not sure how we keep claiming Kuminga isn't drama. He's doing all he can to show the world he wants out of GS. At what point is that considered something?

[LightTheBeam]

He’s worth the $80-$90 mil the Kings and Suns are willing to pay and offer starting role and minutes to. I think those teams are more exception than rule.

The value is determined by the team that wants him, not the one trying to move him’s view. GS boasts the best example of that over the past decade+ in Jimmy Butler. He wanted out and teams wanted him gone too. None trading him got equal value, but they got some value. Kings and Suns aren’t offering any value imo.

Things like the unprotected first and Murray are unrealistic counters to lowball offers imo

I was looking at what the Wiz might offer and the best I was realistically willing to commit was CJ McCollum plus two young players we picked up cheap but who have shown some NBA offensive skills in Cam Whitmore and AJ Johnson for Kuminga and Moody. He accepts a 30 million/year declining deal (so he can retain trade value if it doesn't work out well) to allow him and his agent to say he got his asking price. Wiz can give him a real shot at the starting 4 and the Warriors use Whitmore the way they were going to use Kuminga as bench scoring forward.

And first counter I got from that on the Wiz board was that we shouldn't overpay.

I would rather have Whitmore/Johnson than Kuminga by a mile. Whitmore looks like Kuminga with a shot when he had an opportunity. Johnson has a ton of potential. I agree with your fellow wiz fans.

[NW]

We are so far off on this one I don't even know where to begin.

Comparing Jimmy Butler who is still one of the best 20 players in the league, has taken a team to two finals the past 5 years to Jonathan Kuminga is not something I thought Id see today.

And funny enough the packages are very similar. Warriors dumped bad salary + a top 10 protected 1st.

Getting a protected 1st (even if its heavily protected) is not zero value.

A heavily protected to the point that even Sacramento media (Matt George) said it wouldn’t convey and would likely be two seconds is pretty much no value. Heck, the Suns offer is better than that (at least O’neale and Richards have shown to be players in the NBA-which Carter hasn’t and they’d give more 2nds) and it’s horrible.

No one said Butler and Kuminga are close, but Butler did everything short of set arenas on fire and it didn’t prevent teams from having to give something of value. Kuminga, who didn’t provide drama and worth giving $80 mil and a starter spot to isn’t worth any? Better off keeping him then imo

Kuminga isn't worth 80 today. Realistically the only 2 teams chasing him down are ran by the 2 worst owners in the league.

And I'm not sure how we keep claiming Kuminga isn't drama. He's doing all he can to show the world he wants out of GS. At what point is that considered something?

When it becomes a distraction to the actual team and its plays which he provided none of last year when his minutes got yo yo'd. No reason to believe he does it this year if he wants to expedite his departure.

Regardless of Kings and Suns management, it only takes one team to establish value. Kuminga got two. Maybe three if the Bulls ever sign Giddey

[xdrta+]

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2023/06/2023-NBA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement.pdf

I appreciate the deep dive here. Obviously it opens up a LOT more possibilities for us if we could take back up to Kuminga's full first-year salary without tripping the first apron

Article VII, (e),(4) - Transaction Restriction Table -> Item J indicates that Warriors would be capped at the the Second Apron.

Page 215 of 676 of the PDF.

Yeah, that doesn't work. Even the clause you use doesn't say what you claim.
"J.... Team acquires a player using a Traded Player Exception (as described in Section 6(j)(1)(i), (ii), (iii), or (iv) below), which Traded Player Exception is in respect of a Player Contract signed and traded pursuant to Section 8(e)(1) below" ... Second Apron Level
GS isn't acquiring a signed and traded player.

Bottom line is if the Warriors bring back more than half of Kuminga's salary, they're hard-capped at the first apron.

[Sactowndog]

Sounds like Kuminga is going to sign the qualifying offer. If he does that he will tell the Warriors to F themselves on a sign and trade.

https://youtu.be/S5CY0wPdteI?si=c21fSF99NeaGbNB3

[Nate the Great]

He’s the third most important piece incoming though. So much focus on a sub 5 million dollar contract is weird.. A coin flip that his shot comes back now that his shoulder healed. And leaves room under apron to sign Horford to fill out rotation..

Take Brandon Williams vet min and Dallas will take Carter. Solves problem.

So, flip a coin. If it’s heads, his shooting doesn’t improve. If it’s tails, it returns to what it was in college, which was still below average. If the coin lands on its edge, he turns into a decent shooter.

Again. You’re focusing on the third most important incoming piece of the trade, who is a sub 5 million dollar expiring if you want him to be.

And Dallas will offer a bad vet min guard in Williams to replace Carter and ease that extra 2.5 million of salary Carter costs over any other vet min..

Moses Moody started 34 games for the Warriors last season. No one they are getting back in this trade would start. Regardless of Carter, it’s an easy no.

[gswhoops]

Sounds like Kuminga is going to sign the qualifying offer. If he does that he will tell the Warriors to F themselves on a sign and trade.

https://youtu.be/S5CY0wPdteI?si=c21fSF99NeaGbNB3

I've been a Warriors fan for 30 years and I've never heard of this guy. Not saying he's wrong necessarily, but idk that I'd trust him as a source.

[OGSactownballer]

Kuminga spotted hanging out in downtown Sac last night.

We aren’t exactly a destination party spot for wealthy 22 yo professional athletes here. So that says a lot to me.

[LightTheBeam]

So much for worthless pick.
Kings are supposedly offering 2030 lotto protected 1st, if it doesnt convey it would become worst of 2031 spurs/kings.

[gswhoops]

Kuminga spotted hanging out in downtown Sac last night.

We aren’t exactly a destination party spot for wealthy 22 yo professional athletes here. So that says a lot to me.

This seems like a much more trustworthy sign than some random YouTuber

[gswhoops]

So much for worthless pick.
Kings are supposedly offering 2030 lotto protected 1st, if it doesnt convey it would become worst of 2031 spurs/kings.

If it's Monk plus this pick then let's get the paperwork signed and wrap this up.

[LightTheBeam]

So much for worthless pick.
Kings are supposedly offering 2030 lotto protected 1st, if it doesnt convey it would become worst of 2031 spurs/kings.

If it's Monk plus this pick then let's get the paperwork signed and wrap this up.

This franchise is such a disaster. I knew warriors would win this deal because our owner has zero patience. Giving any 1st is criminal. Congrats to warriors fans, lucky you have a neighbor who loves to make stupid ahhh decisions over and over.

[xdrta+]

So much for worthless pick.
Kings are supposedly offering 2030 lotto protected 1st, if it doesnt convey it would become worst of 2031 spurs/kings.

If it's Monk plus this pick then let's get the paperwork signed and wrap this up.

To avoid the hard cap they'd have to send Moody or Hield plus a small salary to a third team.

Edit: What is the contract they're offering Kuminga with this deal?

[NW]

Kuminga spotted hanging out in downtown Sac last night.

We aren’t exactly a destination party spot for wealthy 22 yo professional athletes here. So that says a lot to me.

It says beware your sources.

[x]

Read on Twitter

[/x]

[NW]

So much for worthless pick.
Kings are supposedly offering 2030 lotto protected 1st, if it doesnt convey it would become worst of 2031 spurs/kings.

If it's Monk plus this pick then let's get the paperwork signed and wrap this up.

If only it was that simple. Monk and a first for JK, cool. Having to throw in Moody or Hield plus whatever draft capital that third team would want? Not so much

[gswhoops]

So much for worthless pick.
Kings are supposedly offering 2030 lotto protected 1st, if it doesnt convey it would become worst of 2031 spurs/kings.

If it's Monk plus this pick then let's get the paperwork signed and wrap this up.

This franchise is such a disaster. I knew warriors would win this deal because our owner has zero patience. Giving any 1st is criminal. Congrats to warriors fans, lucky you have a neighbor who loves to make stupid ahhh decisions over and over.

I feel you man. We obviously had terrible ownership for most of my life and there's a uniquely depressing feeling knowing there's nothing you can do except wait and hope they sell the team.

[gswhoops]

Apparently Kuminga is now planning to play for the DRC in AfroBasket, which could be a sign that a deal is close to getting done. All signs point towards Sacramento.

[xdrta+]

Apparently Kuminga is now planning to play for the DRC in AfroBasket, which could be a sign that a deal is close to getting done. All signs point towards Sacramento.

I'm hoping it's Hield. I don't want to lose Moody.