$32M IQ Value

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah I also find the cap projections pretty optimistic. And agree with jbk that I don't believe IQ has established that he is a quality starter. He had great advanced numbers in a bench role in NY and Toronto believed he was ready to break out in a bigger role, but as of today we just don't have the data to tell us he will be successful in a bigger role against better players.

But I also don't think we should be knee-jerking based on a few games to start this season. And Toronto isn't playing for anything meaningful this year so better to let him work through it and worst case another year falls off the contract.

Just doesn't seem like a player who should be on the trade block.

[gswhoops]

IQ is having a rough start. It seems like the defense is better but his shooting has been overwhelmingly bad. He's off to a rough start and should normalize over the coming weeks.

It would be interesting to keep this thread alive. I think IQ will bounce back and play much better. The Raptors will need to decide between Ingram, Barrett and IQ. They just signed BI so I doubt it's him. RJ also looks like he's improved and back to being an elite 3rd option.

IQ kind of seems to be the odd man out. They have a capable back up in Shead ready to go and Hepburn doesn't look bad.

Question is, does IQ fetch anything? Would teams want to dump a bad contract and picks in exchange for him?

Quickley is a bad contract that would take picks to dump.

Best-case scenario right now is that Houston gets desperate for guard play and offers you FVV straight up for him.

[jbk1234]

Yeah I also find the cap projections pretty optimistic. And agree with jbk that I don't believe IQ has established that he is a quality starter. He had great advanced numbers in a bench role in NY and Toronto believed he was ready to break out in a bigger role, but as of today we just don't have the data to tell us he will be successful in a bigger role against better players.

But I also don't think we should be knee-jerking based on a few games to start this season. And Toronto isn't playing for anything meaningful this year so better to let him work through it and worst case another year falls off the contract.

Just doesn't seem like a player who should be on the trade block.

The fundamental problem the Raptors have is that too many of their players like to shoot from inside the arc and Ingram is the only one who can force a rotation. The concern should be that even if IQ starts heating up in a catch and shoot role, it won't be long until the scouting report instructs to stay home on IQ.

They really need to consider moving Barrett to 6th man and starting Agbaji so they can put two credible shooters out there (and even that feels charitable) with Ingram while leveling up their defense a tic. Outside of that option, they've got to start trading guys.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh don't get me started on their roster construction. I've said my piece on that too many times lol.

[tcheco]

Raptors are stuck with IQ for this year at least until he becomes tradeable. He is not garbage, but with how teams are handling their usage of cap space, and his skills, he needs to bring his 3 point shooting back this year for anyone feel confortable bringing him in, and the best Raptors would get is expirings honestly. 32M for a sixth man/5th best starting player in a team is way too much

[Thaddy]

IQ is having a rough start. It seems like the defense is better but his shooting has been overwhelmingly bad. He's off to a rough start and should normalize over the coming weeks.

It would be interesting to keep this thread alive. I think IQ will bounce back and play much better. The Raptors will need to decide between Ingram, Barrett and IQ. They just signed BI so I doubt it's him. RJ also looks like he's improved and back to being an elite 3rd option.

IQ kind of seems to be the odd man out. They have a capable back up in Shead ready to go and Hepburn doesn't look bad.

Question is, does IQ fetch anything? Would teams want to dump a bad contract and picks in exchange for him?

Quickley is a bad contract that would take picks to dump.

Best-case scenario right now is that Houston gets desperate for guard play and offers you FVV straight up for him.

His contract will be better next year since it's flat. They'd probably hold on to him.

[jscott]

Minnesota could be interested? Reid and Conley or DDV for Quickley + value?

No dude. MN wants no part of this at that price unless that’s a ton of + value coming back.

[gswhoops]

IQ is having a rough start. It seems like the defense is better but his shooting has been overwhelmingly bad. He's off to a rough start and should normalize over the coming weeks.

It would be interesting to keep this thread alive. I think IQ will bounce back and play much better. The Raptors will need to decide between Ingram, Barrett and IQ. They just signed BI so I doubt it's him. RJ also looks like he's improved and back to being an elite 3rd option.

IQ kind of seems to be the odd man out. They have a capable back up in Shead ready to go and Hepburn doesn't look bad.

Question is, does IQ fetch anything? Would teams want to dump a bad contract and picks in exchange for him?

Quickley is a bad contract that would take picks to dump.

Best-case scenario right now is that Houston gets desperate for guard play and offers you FVV straight up for him.

His contract will be better next year since it's flat. They'd probably hold on to him.

I mean his contract will get better simply by virtue of being shorter every year. But even assuming his rough start regresses more or less to the mean, he's still significantly overpaid for what he is (and isn't).

$32M a year should be a clear plus starter, third or fourth best player on a good team. Top 100-ish player in the league. I don't think IQ is even close to that level. I do think that Toronto's best avenue at this point is to hold on to him (and if they want value back for him they may not have a choice)

[NYG]

MPJ for IQ based concept?

[Mr Swagtastic]

MPJ for IQ based concept?

No, his brother put a black eye on this team, plays a position Toronto is extremely crowded at and IMHO I don't see both teams trading with each other

[Thaddy]

Quickley is a bad contract that would take picks to dump.

Best-case scenario right now is that Houston gets desperate for guard play and offers you FVV straight up for him.

His contract will be better next year since it's flat. They'd probably hold on to him.

I mean his contract will get better simply by virtue of being shorter every year. But even assuming his rough start regresses more or less to the mean, he's still significantly overpaid for what he is (and isn't).

$32M a year should be a clear plus starter, third or fourth best player on a good team. Top 100-ish player in the league. I don't think IQ is even close to that level. I do think that Toronto's best avenue at this point is to hold on to him (and if they want value back for him they may not have a choice)

He'll be at 20-22 points a game on 58 TS% and he has similar measurements and athleticism to Fox. He's not worth 32M but it's not super far off. It seems like his value as a Knick was higher based on potential but its still there now.

[gswhoops]

His contract will be better next year since it's flat. They'd probably hold on to him.

I mean his contract will get better simply by virtue of being shorter every year. But even assuming his rough start regresses more or less to the mean, he's still significantly overpaid for what he is (and isn't).

$32M a year should be a clear plus starter, third or fourth best player on a good team. Top 100-ish player in the league. I don't think IQ is even close to that level. I do think that Toronto's best avenue at this point is to hold on to him (and if they want value back for him they may not have a choice)

He'll be at 20-22 points a game on 58 TS% and he has similar measurements and athleticism to Fox. He's not worth 32M but it's not super far off. It seems like his value as a Knick was higher based on potential but its still there now.

He has never averaged 20ppg or a 58% TS for an entire season in his career, let alone both at the same time.

[jscott]

His contract will be better next year since it's flat. They'd probably hold on to him.

I mean his contract will get better simply by virtue of being shorter every year. But even assuming his rough start regresses more or less to the mean, he's still significantly overpaid for what he is (and isn't).

$32M a year should be a clear plus starter, third or fourth best player on a good team. Top 100-ish player in the league. I don't think IQ is even close to that level. I do think that Toronto's best avenue at this point is to hold on to him (and if they want value back for him they may not have a choice)

He'll be at 20-22 points a game on 58 TS% and he has similar measurements and athleticism to Fox. He's not worth 32M but it's not super far off. It seems like his value as a Knick was higher based on potential but its still there now.

I mean, when he was traded he was what.. 24? He’s 26 now. He kind of is what he is.

I wouldn’t expect a ton of development/potential at this point.

[Thaddy]

I mean his contract will get better simply by virtue of being shorter every year. But even assuming his rough start regresses more or less to the mean, he's still significantly overpaid for what he is (and isn't).

$32M a year should be a clear plus starter, third or fourth best player on a good team. Top 100-ish player in the league. I don't think IQ is even close to that level. I do think that Toronto's best avenue at this point is to hold on to him (and if they want value back for him they may not have a choice)

He'll be at 20-22 points a game on 58 TS% and he has similar measurements and athleticism to Fox. He's not worth 32M but it's not super far off. It seems like his value as a Knick was higher based on potential but its still there now.

I mean, when he was traded he was what.. 24? He’s 26 now. He kind of is what he is.

I wouldn’t expect a ton of development/potential at this point.

Usually late bloomer all stars are the ones who were hidden behind other all stars. In this case that would be Brunson. So I'd say there's a good chance he cold be an all star. He has injury issues last year and was held out for tanking. This year he's off to a slow start but it's obvious he's in a shooting / FT slump and will bounce back.

When he first came to Toronto his numbers were very good. I think he can return to that and even improve on his play from that point.

[tcheco]

He'll be at 20-22 points a game on 58 TS% and he has similar measurements and athleticism to Fox. He's not worth 32M but it's not super far off. It seems like his value as a Knick was higher based on potential but its still there now.

I mean, when he was traded he was what.. 24? He’s 26 now. He kind of is what he is.

I wouldn’t expect a ton of development/potential at this point.

Usually late bloomer all stars are the ones who were hidden behind other all stars. In this case that would be Brunson. So I'd say there's a good chance he cold be an all star. He has injury issues last year and was held out for tanking. This year he's off to a slow start but it's obvious he's in a shooting / FT slump and will bounce back.

When he first came to Toronto his numbers were very good. I think he can return to that and even improve on his play from that point.

for each Brunson that becomes an all-star, there's how many others that can't handle taking over a team and improving? I do think Quickley can go back to be a good 3pt shooter, but I don't think there's a single executive in the NBA that expects him to become an All star. In a couple of years he could be worth the salary because of cap jumps, but it's undeniable that no one will value any kind of potencial of becoming better than what he already achieved, at least not when thinking about trading for him.

[gswhoops]

I mean, when he was traded he was what.. 24? He’s 26 now. He kind of is what he is.

I wouldn’t expect a ton of development/potential at this point.

Usually late bloomer all stars are the ones who were hidden behind other all stars. In this case that would be Brunson. So I'd say there's a good chance he cold be an all star. He has injury issues last year and was held out for tanking. This year he's off to a slow start but it's obvious he's in a shooting / FT slump and will bounce back.

When he first came to Toronto his numbers were very good. I think he can return to that and even improve on his play from that point.

for each Brunson that becomes an all-star, there's how many others that can't handle taking over a team and improving? I do think Quickley can go back to be a good 3pt shooter, but I don't think there's a single executive in the NBA that expects him to become an All star. In a couple of years he could be worth the salary because of cap jumps, but it's undeniable that no one will value any kind of potencial of becoming better than what he already achieved, at least not when thinking about trading for him.

+1 to all of this. I think my issue with this thread is that it's basically assuming that IQ is going to have a massive breakout season (career highs in scoring volume and efficiency, serious All-Star consideration) and then asking us to pre-emptively value him at his post-breakout valuation.

It's not impossible for a guy in year 6 or later to have a significant breakout, but it's very, very rare and no one is going to value IQ assuming that's what's going to happen.

[Thaddy]

Usually late bloomer all stars are the ones who were hidden behind other all stars. In this case that would be Brunson. So I'd say there's a good chance he cold be an all star. He has injury issues last year and was held out for tanking. This year he's off to a slow start but it's obvious he's in a shooting / FT slump and will bounce back.

When he first came to Toronto his numbers were very good. I think he can return to that and even improve on his play from that point.

for each Brunson that becomes an all-star, there's how many others that can't handle taking over a team and improving? I do think Quickley can go back to be a good 3pt shooter, but I don't think there's a single executive in the NBA that expects him to become an All star. In a couple of years he could be worth the salary because of cap jumps, but it's undeniable that no one will value any kind of potencial of becoming better than what he already achieved, at least not when thinking about trading for him.

+1 to all of this. I think my issue with this thread is that it's basically assuming that IQ is going to have a massive breakout season (career highs in scoring volume and efficiency, serious All-Star consideration) and then asking us to pre-emptively value him at his post-breakout valuation.

It's not impossible for a guy in year 6 or later to have a significant breakout, but it's very, very rare and no one is going to value IQ assuming that's what's going to happen.

No one is saying that he's going to have an insane jump. But if he returns to the numbers he had when he first arrived in Toronto he'd be a 22 PPG scorer with a close to 40% from 3. That's worth the cap percentage he's taking up.

22 points and 6-7 assists on good numbers is definitely worth the contract. Over the course of the season you'll be proven wrong.

I dont understand how you characterize that as outlandish. Ingram is the best offensive wing he's ever played with. It should open up looks for him and the Raptors will probably move RJ for a POA defender that keeps IQ fresh for offense.

[Texas Chuck]

Dwight Powell shot 12 free throws last night, making 10. If we project this out for the rest of the season, what a bargain on his $4M deal. And I assume this is the most likely trajectory despite it being a career high.

[jscott]

for each Brunson that becomes an all-star, there's how many others that can't handle taking over a team and improving? I do think Quickley can go back to be a good 3pt shooter, but I don't think there's a single executive in the NBA that expects him to become an All star. In a couple of years he could be worth the salary because of cap jumps, but it's undeniable that no one will value any kind of potencial of becoming better than what he already achieved, at least not when thinking about trading for him.

+1 to all of this. I think my issue with this thread is that it's basically assuming that IQ is going to have a massive breakout season (career highs in scoring volume and efficiency, serious All-Star consideration) and then asking us to pre-emptively value him at his post-breakout valuation.

It's not impossible for a guy in year 6 or later to have a significant breakout, but it's very, very rare and no one is going to value IQ assuming that's what's going to happen.

No one is saying that he's going to have an insane jump. But if he returns to the numbers he had when he first arrived in Toronto he'd be a 22 PPG scorer with a close to 40% from 3. That's worth the cap percentage he's taking up.

22 points and 6-7 assists on good numbers is definitely worth the contract. Over the course of the season you'll be proven wrong.

I dont understand how you characterize that as outlandish. Ingram is the best offensive wing he's ever played with. It should open up looks for him and the Raptors will probably move RJ for a POA defender that keeps IQ fresh for offense.

Highly doubt it but quoted for future use

[tcheco]

for each Brunson that becomes an all-star, there's how many others that can't handle taking over a team and improving? I do think Quickley can go back to be a good 3pt shooter, but I don't think there's a single executive in the NBA that expects him to become an All star. In a couple of years he could be worth the salary because of cap jumps, but it's undeniable that no one will value any kind of potencial of becoming better than what he already achieved, at least not when thinking about trading for him.

+1 to all of this. I think my issue with this thread is that it's basically assuming that IQ is going to have a massive breakout season (career highs in scoring volume and efficiency, serious All-Star consideration) and then asking us to pre-emptively value him at his post-breakout valuation.

It's not impossible for a guy in year 6 or later to have a significant breakout, but it's very, very rare and no one is going to value IQ assuming that's what's going to happen.

No one is saying that he's going to have an insane jump. But if he returns to the numbers he had when he first arrived in Toronto he'd be a 22 PPG scorer with a close to 40% from 3. That's worth the cap percentage he's taking up.

22 points and 6-7 assists on good numbers is definitely worth the contract. Over the course of the season you'll be proven wrong.

I dont understand how you characterize that as outlandish. Ingram is the best offensive wing he's ever played with. It should open up looks for him and the Raptors will probably move RJ for a POA defender that keeps IQ fresh for offense.

When he arrived at Toronto he averaged 18.6 ppg in 38, where are you getting 22? Next year he averaged 17.1 in 33 games

Adding 4ppg and keeping efficiency is really hard, when IQ went from 15 to 18 ppg his eFG% dropped from .549 to .518. It can happen, but you can understand why people are not counting on that.