Indy fire sale

rommie · Post #21 » by **rommie** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:51 am

What about sending Foster to the Spurs for cash or salary filler(s), and the rights to Tiago Splitter or a 1rst round pick?

Jeff still has some value around the league. I love his game. One of my favorite Pacers EVER but the Pacers aren't going to be winning a lot of games here in the near future. Why not get something for him while you still can?

Defiantly look to move Jermaine. LA is probably the best place. Awesome if the Pacers could dump Murphy on them but I have doubts. Would love to get Critt but not sure the Lakers would deal him. I wouldn't mind seeing Indy with Dunleavy/Granger/Odom. Dunleavy and Granger seem to play better without Jermaine but hell what do I know. I think Odom is a good fit with what Jim wants to do.

I'd look to deal Marquis. Quality player with some value. But we have guys who can play that position. Mike, Danny, Kareem, and Shawne. Not for sure who would be interested in Marquis though.

Defiantly want to see the Pacers make some more changes.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #22 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:00 am

I'd be disgusted if the Pacers trade JO for an Odom based package, unless Critt. was included, and even then I wouldn't like it.

chatard5 · Post #23 » by **chatard5** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:03 am

I'll pay you a few million bucks to take sh*tty ass Tinsley. What a bitch.

rommie · Post #24 » by **rommie** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:13 am

[quote="DGrangeRx33"]I'd be disgusted if the Pacers trade JO for an Odom based package, unless Critt. was included, and even then I wouldn't like it.[/quote]

What are the Pacers suppose to get for Jermaine? I can't see his value being sky high.

It's very difficult to make trades especially when you are trying to deal your 20 million dollar player. The Lakers may not even want to mess with their team right now they have played very well in the tough Western Conference.

Showtime:Part2 · Post #25 » by **Showtime:Part2** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:51 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:I'd be disgusted if the Pacers trade JO for an Odom based package, unless Critt. was included, and even then I wouldn't like it.

odom is more productive than jo right now.

Post #26 » by **loserX** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:05 am

Showtime:Part2 wrote:odom is more productive than jo right now.

If by "more productive" you mean "scoring less", then yes. (He is in fact scoring at the same rate as Stephon Marbury, and less than Eddy Curry or Andre Miller.) Odom is also not nearly the defender JO is.

Odom is a good, versatile player (and is rebounding well...to be fair, better than JO at this point), but an Odom-for-JO swap would help the Lakers and hurt the Pacers. He's just not as good.

croz24 · Post #27 » by **croz24** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:12 am

indy really needs to trade granger for a 1st

Post #28 » by **KJ7** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:39 am

loserX wrote:If by "more productive" you mean "scoring less", then yes. (He is in fact scoring at the same rate as Stephon Marbury, and less than Eddy Curry or Andre Miller.) Odom is also not nearly the defender JO is.

Odom is a good, versatile player (and is rebounding well...to be fair, better than JO at this point), but an Odom-for-JO swap would help the Lakers and hurt the Pacers. He's just not as good.

Usually agree with you, but can't say I do in this instance.

Firstly, while Odom is recovering from shoulder problems he shows signs of getting back to full fitness (if he hasn't already). Not something you can say about JO. Didn't he just sit the Suns game out due to knee soreness? Missed 82 games in 3 seasons before this one *and* has a massive salary to boot.

As for scoring, Odom does share the floor with Kobe. JO doesn't have anyone on his team just jacking up shots like that.

I think a trade based around Odom and JO would be pretty good for both parties. While Indy doesn't win straight away (and I don't think they can trade JO away for a player that can do that anyway) they do get a vgood player that initially you can centre your team around and latter incorporate different pieces.

I guess it depends whether Indy just wants to sink to the bottom and get top 3 draft picks or whether they want to be semi-competitive during their rebuild.

Hendrix · Post #29 » by **Hendrix** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:43 am

Is JO going down hill a bit this year? I've only watched 1 Indy game, but just checking his stats his stats this year are pretty close to his first year with Indy after being a bench player in Portland.

Toronto could really use a defensive center to play beside Bosh to help rebound and defend. I was going to offer Bargnani+Rasho+ whatever outside of Bosh Ford, and Calderon but if he's going down hill don't really want him.

incontrol__ · Post #30 » by **incontrol__** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:45 am

Showtime:Part2 wrote:odom is more productive than jo right now.

Odom's been more productive over the last 4 games than JO, but JO's been more productive on the season. He's played less minutes, so it looks slightly skewed.

JO: 15.8 ppg (FG: 44.1%), 8 rpg, 2.86 apg, 2.4 bpg (when extrapolated to 35 mpg).

LO: 13.8 ppg (FG: 49.1%), 9.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, 0.7 bpg (in 36.2 mpg)

Odom's the superior offensive player right now, while JO's still the superior defensive player, but the gap has closed a bit. Odom's defense has been pretty good this season, while JO's hasn't been as good as previous seasons.

loserx wrote:an Odom-for-JO swap would help the Lakers and hurt the Pacers. He's just not as good.

I don't think an Odom for JO swap would really be a gain talent-wise for Indy, but it's a large gain financially - (including this year) Odom's got $27 million left on his contract for the next two years, whereas JO's got $64 million left on his contract for the next three years.

In the year that Granger, and Diogu's extensions/new contracts kick in , JO will be earning $23 million. That would make the Pacers have to have a very large pay-roll for a team that's not really going to be anywhere near a championship contender (i'm assuming Granger will get 8-10 mil a year and that Diogu would get 4-5 mil a year).

LO would allow them to continue to be semi competitive (IMO), while lowering their pay roll by a fair bit, and he expires in time for Granger and Diogu's extensions/new contracts, unlike JO.

An Indiana team with LO, Granger, Dunleavy, Tinsley, could be a borderline playoff team.. Which is exactly what Indiana is right now anyway.

old rem · Post #31 » by **old rem** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:29 pm

Fire sale? Great Idea...all the buzzards are circling...you can turn your starting 5 into some 3rd string short contracts....become a punching bag for 5-6 years until you get back to about where you are.

old rem · Post #32 » by **old rem** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:40 pm

croz24 wrote:indy really needs to trade granger for a 1st

Terrific....then they have maybe a 50-50 chance that in 4-5 years the new guy is as good as Granger is.

If his $$ are why you'd trade JO....why the hell get Odum?

Post #33 » by **loserX** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:47 pm

KJ7 wrote:Usually agree with you, but can't say I do in this instance.

Fair enough...if there's one thing I've learned, it's that opinions on JO vary pretty widely on this board

KJ7 wrote:Firstly, while Odom is recovering from shoulder problems he shows signs of getting back to full fitness (if he hasn't already). Not something you can say about JO. Didn't he just sit the Suns game out due to knee soreness? Missed 82 games in 3 seasons before this one *and* has a massive salary to boot.

You're right on these last points, of course...but Odom has ALSO missed a lot of games throughout his career (not just this year). It seems to me that the chief complaints about JO are:

1) overpaid - true
2) declining - NOT true (his numbers the 5 seasons before this are perfectly consistent, but see next point)
3) numbers are down THIS year - true, but that's a result of not fitting into his current system
4) injury-prone - true

The thing is, ALL these points apply just as equally to Odom as they do to O'Neal. BOTH players' value is down this year, so the price gap still exists. It just seems like the JO-to-the-Lakers proposals focus on O'Neal's weaknesses while completely glossing over Odom's.

Just taking a lesser player for JO is not worthwhile for the Pacers, IMHO.

KJ7 wrote:I think a trade based around Odom and JO would be pretty good for both parties. While Indy doesn't win straight away (and I don't think they can trade JO away for a player that can do that anyway) they do get a vgood player that initially you can centre your team around and latter incorporate different pieces.

This is the problem for me. Odom is NOT a player you can ever centre your team around. He is a 3rd option type who gets paid like a 1st option. He's not good enough to make the Pacers better, and his own sizable contract isn't what a team looking to rebuild would want. No matter what the Pacers' direction is, Odom alone doesn't fit.

Whether the Lakers (or anyone else) think it's fair is only part of the issue (I clearly don't

). It's not the Pacers initiating these talks, desperate to downgrade...the Lakers have to give them something they WANT. Lamar Odom does not fill the bill.