Bibby to the Biig Apple

[Smills91]

Kings deal:
Mike Bibby
Kenny thomas
Justin Williams

Knicks deal:
Stephon Marbury
David Lee

Kings get the piece they seek after for Bibby to help shore up their rebounding issues.

Knicks get out of Marbury's deal and upgrade the position while they're at it. Justin Williams' addition helps soften the loss of David Lee to the Knicks frontcourt.

Kings:
C: Brad Miller, Spencer Hawes
PF: David Lee, Mikki Moore, SAR*
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Dahntay Jones
PG: Beno Udrih, Quincy Douby, Stephon Marbury*

Knicks:
C: Eddy Curry, Randolph Morris, Jerome James
PF: Zach Randolph, Justin Williams, Malik Rose
SF: Quentin Richardson, Renaldo Balkman, Wilson Chandler
SG: Jamal Crawford, Jared Jeffries, Fred Jones
PG: Mike Bibby, Nate Robinson, Mardy Collins

[chriswebb86]

Kings deal:
Mike Bibby
Kenny thomas
Justin Williams

Knicks deal:
Stephon Marbury
David Lee

Kings get the piece they seek after for Bibby to help shore up their rebounding issues.

Knicks get out of Marbury's deal and upgrade the position while they're at it. Justin Williams' addition helps soften the loss of David Lee to the Knicks frontcourt.

Kings:
C: Brad Miller, Spencer Hawes
PF: David Lee, Mikki Moore, SAR*
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Dahntay Jones
PG: Beno Udrih, Quincy Douby, Stephon Marbury*

Knicks:
C: Eddy Curry, Randolph Morris, Jerome James
PF: Zach Randolph, Justin Williams, Malik Rose
SF: Quentin Richardson, Renaldo Balkman, Wilson Chandler
SG: Jamal Crawford, Jared Jeffries, Fred Jones
PG: Mike Bibby, Nate Robinson, Mardy Collins

This is something I would really look at doing. Starbury comes off the cap in 09. So that will allow a massive amount of money to be freed up.

[rpa]

I still don't think David Lee fits this Kings team at all to be perfectly honest. We need defensive players in the front court and Lee is a bad defender, plain & simple.

[Smills91]

I still don't think David Lee fits this Kings team at all to be perfectly honest. We need defensive players in the front court and Lee is a bad defender, plain & simple.

I look at it this way...he fills one hole on our roster(a rebounding specialist) and we dump Kenny's deal in the process. I think those two assets compensate for the Bibby/Marbury swap.

[loserX]

Don't much like it for the Knicks. Bibby may be an upgrade on Marbury, but I'd almost rather buy out the latter than have to trade Lee for KT. It's not like Bibby's going to be a huge difference-maker for the Knicks.

[rpa]

I look at it this way...he fills one hole on our roster(a rebounding specialist) and we dump Kenny's deal in the process. I think those two assets compensate for the Bibby/Marbury swap.

But it would force either him or Hawes to be relegated to bench player. Which, to me, either means:
a) The Kings wasted their 2007 1st rounder
or
b) The Kings moved 1 of their best trading chips for a backup & a year off Kenny's deal (plus we're giving up Williams)

In my mind if the Kings go for the "couple of minor pieces" trade they need to get more than 2. I don't think they can get a "major" piece in a Bibby trade simply because he doesn't garner THAT much value. But I'd think 1 more piece to add to a year off Kenny's deal & a backup PF would be much better.

[Crimson King]

Deal from the Kings, but for get Lee the Kings probably should add to the deal a swap Artest for Malik Rose, so it says it all. I'd like it, but right now I think it's too good for the Kings.

[chriswebb86]

I still don't think David Lee fits this Kings team at all to be perfectly honest. We need defensive players in the front court and Lee is a bad defender, plain & simple.

While that is true, I look at him as a piece to the bigger plan. He can rebound and we have lacked that. He would also add some depth to the bench up front which we need.

[chriswebb86]

-= original quote snipped =-



But it would force either him or Hawes to be relegated to bench player. Which, to me, either means:
a) The Kings wasted their 2007 1st rounder
or
b) The Kings moved 1 of their best trading chips for a backup & a year off Kenny's deal (plus we're giving up Williams)

In my mind if the Kings go for the "couple of minor pieces" trade they need to get more than 2. I don't think they can get a "major" piece in a Bibby trade simply because he doesn't garner THAT much value. But I'd think 1 more piece to add to a year off Kenny's deal & a backup PF would be much better.

Why would it be a wasted pick. Coming in we all knew Hawes was more then a year away from being a major piece with this team. The way I look at him is someone with the potential of an Andrew Bynum who you have to wait as he develops. So I dont see how Lee would take minutes from him. Also I wouldnt mind having a deep bench and for the most part we have been playing with 3 wings, a PG, and Brad or Moore. This would give us one other big who could play up front.

[JES12]

As a third party, I think the origional deal favors the Kings way too much.

I think a more even deal would be a KT, Rose swap.

Either:

Marbury + Rose for Bibby + SAR + KT (Kings use Bibby to get out of SAR's and KT's 3rd year)

OR

Marbury + Rose + Lee for Bibby + KT + Moore (If they want Lee, they should switch SAR to Moore)

[rpa]

-= original quote snipped =-



Why would it be a wasted pick. Coming in we all knew Hawes was more then a year away from being a major piece with this team. The way I look at him is someone with the potential of an Andrew Bynum who you have to wait as he develops. So I dont see how Lee would take minutes from him. Also I wouldnt mind having a deep bench and for the most part we have been playing with 3 wings, a PG, and Brad or Moore. This would give us one other big who could play up front.

I'm not saying Lee would take minutes from him. My point was that you can't have a Hawes/Lee starting front court because neither 1 is an above average defender (with Lee being below average). Thus picking up Lee (who's young) would either force us to bring Lee or Hawes off the bench. If it was Lee then we just traded 1 of our better chips for a backup; if it's Hawes we bring off the bench then the pick would have been a waste as lottery picks should yield AT LEAST a starter.

[chriswebb86]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'm not saying Lee would take minutes from him. My point was that you can't have a Hawes/Lee starting front court because neither 1 is an above average defender (with Lee being below average). Thus picking up Lee (who's young) would either force us to bring Lee or Hawes off the bench. If it was Lee then we just traded 1 of our better chips for a backup; if it's Hawes we bring off the bench then the pick would have been a waste as lottery picks should yield AT LEAST a starter.

Oh ok I see your point. At this point to me it really doesnt matter who starts the game, all that matters is who Finishes the game. While Lee and Hawes may not yield the best defensive front line, I would have no problem with them playing along side each other until we get a defensive force at the 4. While, I think we can get better for Bibby, if we are really looking at the 09 off season as when we are going to go after free agents then to me this deal makes sense. You Basically get 22 million coming off the cap that which could be huge depending on the MLE and who we have signed to extensions, but it would give us cap room and it also moves K9. Honestly if this is the best we can get, then its something I really would consider. However, at this point I think the cards are in the Kings hands.

[WizardsWorld]

Artest is the one that wants to go to the Knicks and that the Knicks want... might as well do:

Knicks receive:
Ron Artest
Mike Bibby
Kenny Thomas
Justin Williams

Kings receive:
David Lee
Stephon Marbury
Malik Rose


Works in the checker...


Knicks:
C: Curry
PF: Randolph
SF: Artest
SG: Crawford
PG: Bibby


Kings:
C: Miller
PF: Lee
SF: Garcia
SG: Martin
PG: Udrih

[JustMoe]

^ Interesting, I thought about something similar to this after reading through the thread, as well. In this scenario, at least in my opinion, the Kings don't get enough value, though. I'd say Balkman would have to go to Sacramento as a replacement for Artest to make it closer.

The deal I came up with most likely won't be admired too much by most Knicks fans, but I'll still post it in order to hear some opinions by both teams' fans:

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +6.0 ppg, +5.3 rpg, and +1.0 apg.
Incoming Players
David Lee
6-9 PF from Florida
9.5 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Renaldo Balkman
6-7 SF from South Carolina
3.0 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.5 apg in 13.1 minutes
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
1.8 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 9.5 minutes
Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
13.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.7 apg in 33.5 minutes
Outgoing Players
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
1.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 8.4 minutes
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 40.4 minutes
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
1.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.2 minutes
Mike Bibby
6-2 PG from Arizona
No games yet played in 2007/08

New York Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -6.0 ppg, -5.3 rpg, and -1.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
1.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 8.4 minutes
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 40.4 minutes
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
1.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.2 minutes
Mike Bibby
6-2 PG from Arizona
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
David Lee
6-9 PF from Florida
9.5 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Renaldo Balkman
6-7 SF from South Carolina
3.0 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.5 apg in 13.1 minutes
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
1.8 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 9.5 minutes
Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
13.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.7 apg in 33.5 minutes

I guess it would just be too much salary to add for the Knicks, while I could also see some Kings fans not liking it due to giving up the better players. Personally, I looked at it as two seperate deals, with the original one in this thread being the first, which favors the Kings a little IMO (due to getting out of KT's contract while adding a great young rebounder), while Artest + Reef - Balkman + Rose is something the Knicks would take and run. What do you guys think? Would adding some picks make it close?

[Crimson King]

^^ Without SAR this deal is balanced IMO, but probably too much players (and big names) to be realistic.

[JustMoe]

^ I agree upon the size of the trade, but this could be said about at least 60 % of all proposals on this board

I just looked it up and was surprised to see that the deal would work salary-wise without Abdur-Rahim, so this would be a possibility, as well.

[gswhoops]

Too good for Sacramento...Bibby wouldn't make them a contender.

If you want Lee, you'll probably have to send Artest east.

[longfellow44]

I personally don't want Lee on the team he's just NY's version of Drew Gooden. I don't think he's ever going to be better than Gooden and there is no way I would ever trade Artest for Gooden. So I don't think that I would be willing to trade Artest for Lee either we would certainly need a big salary dump attached for the kings to consider it.