Pacers and Wolves

shrink · Post #21 » by **shrink** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:32 pm

Oomph wrote:I don't see any interesting prospects in that trade too, and no big expiring contracts either.

JO's value might have dropped a bit the last weeks but these offers are pure crap!

I know everyone values players differently, but

Jermaine O'Neal (FC

shrink · Post #22 » by **shrink** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:10 pm

Boneman2 wrote:Indy does actually have something Minnesota could use though, Jeff Foster. He'd immediately pay dividends by guarding the opposing center, effectively preserving Al Jefferson.

Would McHale do Foster/ Owens for Green / Telfair?

I think your analysis is right on the money. Foster could be a great fit alongside Al Jefferson, particularly with his experience playing with JO. I think your trade is fair as well.

However, I'm with deeney on this one. MIN isn't in a win-now mode, and while Foster's skillset is a nice match, his age is not. Moreover, the Wolves are going to be in a cash crunch next season, with about $12 mil left under the lux for re-signings and FA's after paying their 1st rounder. I think Foster is worth his $5.5 mil next season, but it would virtually insure that MIN couldn't bring back some of their young players, no matter how well they did in their audition the rest of the season.

Good idea, and good offer. I just wish our team was in a position to accept it.

4ho5ive · Post #23 » by **4ho5ive** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:30 pm

WizardsWorld wrote:The rebuilding Wolves dont need JO, thats NOT a good fit at all... but yes sending him over to the Lakers makes sense and this works in the checker:

Minny trades: Antoine Walker, Greg Buckner, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair
Minny receives: Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Trevor Ariza, David Harrison

Indy trades: Jermaine O'Neal, David Harrison
Indy receives: Antoine Walker, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Greg Buckner, Javaris Crittenton

Lakers trade: Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Trevor Ariza, Javaris Crittenton
Lakers receive: Jermaine O'Neal

The idea is about right, but I dont think Indiana trades JO for that package. I love Ariza, but he and Brewer are the same player at the same position. If Minnesota could get Java here I would be all for it, I just dont see the Pacers doing it.

TSC25 · Post #24 » by **TSC25** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:51 am

I like Green,Telfair and even thou I dont wanna give up O'Neal since he's our best defence player down low,but Walker does fit Obie's system better so that deal might not be so bad.

deeney0 · Post #25 » by **deeney0** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:54 am

Green + Telfair for Pacer's 2008 1st?

Post #26 » by **revprodeji** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:13 am

I do not like Foster.

Ariza could be interesting, but he is very similar to Corey.

this is an interesting trade. Being that JO has a shorter contract than Jaric's and fits a need as a vet (only 29) I would be tempted to the do the original deal.

Shrink, you are worried it would make us not contend for the top pick, but there is really a better chance we get the 4 then the 1 and as we have discussed to death there are good prospects in the top 6. Getting a guy like JO at 29 would be worth it.

dunkonu21 · Post #27 » by **dunkonu21** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:16 am

deeney0 wrote:Green + Telfair for Pacer's 2008 1st?

Once Foye comes back...That is very interesting...I think that's a great deal...

shrink · Post #28 » by **shrink** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:46 am

With such a big deal, its understandable that fans from both sides are going to have very different ideas about it. From this thread, I can't tell what MIN people like, and I REALLY don't have a feel for what Pacer fans want. fdefore made a nice post on simplifying the deal, and the next poster says he specificly likes a player that was left out.

I agree with fdefore that this deal could be simplified. In fact, the current deal adds $4 mil to IND this year, when they can probably only take about $1.5-$2.0 without exceding the lux. JO for Ratliff, and the 2-year deals of Walker and Butler match JO's salary this year, save IND $7.7 mil the next, and the full (gulp) $23 mil the last season for a total savings of $30 mil. As for the other players in the deal (Rush, Harrison, Owens, Graham and Gerald Green, Telfair, and Chris Richard, I'll assume those are swapped for trade value reasons, not financial ones.

Salary breaks down like this:

Jermaine O'Neal $19,728,000 $21,372,000 $23,016,000
Kareem Rush $770,610
David Harrison $1,734,316
Andre Owens $687,456
Stephen Graham $770,610

Theo Ratliff $11,666,666
Antoine Walker $8,329,640 $9,052,460
Greg Buckner $3,750,746 $4,010,005
Sebastian Telfair$2,562,425
Gerald Green $1,440,960
Chris Richard $427,163

NEW MIN $23.7 $21.4 $23.0 = $68.1
NEW IND $27.8 $13.1 $0 = $40.9

shrink · Post #29 » by **shrink** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:53 am

Personally, I have more worries than just reducing our chances at a top pick. I just don't think there's any way that Jermaine can produce enough to justify those paycheck. I'm not saying he's not a star player, but star players are now being paid $12-$14/year. JO would be taking almost a third of our payroll. Adding $8.3 mil in salary next season would make us squirm after signing our 1st rounder -- we might get to keep one puppy.

If JO was going to opt out, I wouldn't have a problem with the deal of course, but he's said this season he wants to be traded, and I don't know if he's suggested that now, like "Buy me out now before I opt out next season so I can go sign elsewhere." MIN is worse than IND by a lot, so its even more likely he'd opt out, but the big paychecks scare me to death.

shrink · Post #30 » by **shrink** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:56 am

deeney0 wrote:Green + Telfair for Pacer's 2008 1st?

I think if the pick isn't lottery-protected, that's a quick "no" from IND .. maybe even if it is.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #31 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:03 am

Pacers need height. They won't trade their first for 2 more guards. Even though I really love both those players.

fdefore · Post #32 » by **fdefore** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:17 am

deeney0 wrote:Green + Telfair for Pacer's 2008 1st?

interesting thought but lets adjust it slightly -

one of your 2008 1sts for david harrison and stephen graham? about as fair...

chatard5 · Post #33 » by **chatard5** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:18 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:Pacers need height. They won't trade their first for 2 more guards. Even though I really love both those players.

Why do you love them? A few weeks back Wolves fans said they would do Green for Harrison. And we don't need Telfair... We've had enough with Artest, Jackson, and currently Tinsley.

deeney0 · Post #34 » by **deeney0** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:23 am

fdefore wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

interesting thought but lets adjust it slightly -

one of your 2008 1sts for david harrison and stephen graham? about as fair...

Wolves have but one 2008 1st, unless you think Miami is going to pull it together and make the playoffs. And no, and it's not as fair.

And I'd still do Green for Harrison.