Woj: Vuc to Chicago

Prokorov · Post #101 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:29 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I mean, if the deal was WCJ and a 1st, the thread gets locked for being such a bad offer for an all star, doesn’t it? So most people place the value between 1-2 picks.

2021 top 4 protected + WCJ seems fair to me.

I had vuc somewhere between one top 5-10 protected first and B/C level prospect.

giberish · Post #102 » by **giberish** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:37 pm

Very good value for Orlando. Getting 2 picks that should at least be more mid-1st then late-1st looks good.

With Charlotte, NYK and even Cleveland (somewhat) exceeding preseason expectations there's actually some room at the bottom of the EC. Orlando and Detroit look to take advantage.

Chicago definitely gets better but you do wonder if their long-term upside is limited baring finding some major surprise value alone the way.

R-DAWG · Post #103 » by **R-DAWG** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:40 pm

Interesting trade from the perspective of sometimes it makes sense as an organization to go for a few years of playoff contention, and other times it makes sense to walk away from the same. Orlando was in the lotto from 2013-2018 and didn't really hit a home run, yet found themselves in position to be a low end playoff team for a few years. It helps with your culture and with your fans. Now, that window has closed and they can go back to building through the draft.

In Chicago, they have missed the playoffs from 2017-2020, and haven't landed the franchise changing star during that time. Through a trade they have Zach LaVine, who has turned into a star (similar to Vuc in Orlando). With the Bulls close to the playoffs, they were kind of faced with a add to LaVine and go for it or trade LaVine and continue to tank. I respect the organization for trying to get into the playoffs for their fans and their culture. You can always tear it down and build through the draft, you don't always have a chance to have 2 all-stars in their mid to late 20's on your roster while still having some flexibility.

Xman · Post #104 » by **Xman** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:40 pm

Maybe expand the two ORL deals:
BOS - gets AGordon, Markky, Fournier
CHI gets - Smart, Vuc, Aminu - - basically adding white and markky for Smart to announced deal.
ORL gets - Porter Jr, White, Carter - 2 Chi picks (2021 and 2023 top 4 protected), BOS (BOS 2nds in 2021 and 2022; BOS 2021 1st w/ top 4 protection becomes BOS and MEM 2nds in 2025; BOS 2023 1st w/ top 8 protection for three years then becomes 2nds in 2026 and 2027) [note - this is all the tradeable BOS picks except swaps and a 2023 incoming 2nd].

Zion Wembanyama · Post #105 » by **Zion Wembanyama** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:18 pm

Did anyone have Vuc going to CHI?

Prokorov · Post #106 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:43 pm

MJ23datruGOAT wrote:Did anyone have Vuc going to CHI?

a very similar deal was discussed last week. but with seconds/heabily protected 1st

GoBobs · Post #107 » by **GoBobs** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:51 pm

I think it is an overpay by one pick. Bulls are not good enough to be buyers. They sold those picks to be treadmill at best.

Neeva · Post #108 » by **Neeva** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:41 pm

GoBobs wrote:I think it is an overpay by one pick. Bulls are not good enough to be buyers. They sold those picks to be treadmill at best.

Do they even have a decent point guard yet?

orlando_joe · Post #109 » by **orlando_joe** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:03 am

i think magic did well on this one ..i just was not ready for total blowup..since they did not sure how much better could really have asked for...i need a few days...lol...just hard really because of injurys to me never got to see what team could do...magic have to get a great player with magic pick this summer...a bust would just kill it all for yrs

Post #110 » by **HomoSapien** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:13 am

Bulls fans overwhelmingly seem to love this trade. Surprised so many have this as a win for the Magic. I think the Bulls are going to be dangerous moving forward.

Dominator83 · Post #111 » by **Dominator83** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:16 am

Tony Snell wrote:This is a deal where if the Bulls use this deal to vault in the playoffs for the foreseeable future, it will be a win. WCJ and two non lotto picks for Vuc is a great deal. However if the Bulls continue treading where they are at and both of those picks turn into solid mid lottery picks, this will be a major loss for the Bulls.

Mid lottery picks? So you mean like Markkanen, Coby and Wendell ? Those were all #7's. How did that work out for us?

BuddyBuckets · Post #112 » by **BuddyBuckets** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:38 am

Bulls shouldn't look back from this deal, 2 1sts isn't bad for an All Star and they have young talent to develop. They will likely be horrid on defense but they can put up 130 any given night, especially if Coby turns himself into a Clarkson level type guy

pipfan · Post #113 » by **pipfan** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:24 pm

My #2 disappointment with Carter (after his crappy attitude) was his lack of presence on D. He wasn't terrible, and boarded ok (not nearly as good as Vuc) but he showed little heart

I see Vuc as an upgrade on D, especially with Theiss as the back up

Colbinii · Post #114 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:30 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Bulls fans overwhelmingly seem to love this trade. Surprised so many have this as a win for the Magic. I think the Bulls are going to be dangerous moving forward.

"Fans of team believe they overwhelming won the trade they were in"

In other news, Water is wet.

TGW · Post #115 » by **TGW** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:22 pm

Great trade for the Bulls. Vucecic is criminally underated.

Post #116 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:09 pm

Going through and formally grading all of these.

Orlando: A+++ Best deal of the day
Chicago: C- ... which is an F.

Orlando gets a massive return and fully blows it up. Value: Check plus. Direction: Check plus.
Chicago base case gives up a former lotto pick (of questionable value), a ton of cap space, and 2 mid 1sts for a center who is poor defensively to pair with LaVine and Coby White? Talk about not knowing your weaknesses. And Thad or Lauri don't have the rim protecting from pf either that Isaac promised. I see a team that just went all in on being a 6th seed. The worst part? Jay's idea to renegotiate and extend LaVine is gone. If LaVine is promising enough to build around and push all in on, why not next summer offer him a 10m+ bump to sign early?

But really, in the summer of '22 talk to me about what this Chicago team is for the start of the next season. Thad and Sato will be ufa assuming both kept now. Lauri is ? And then what other talent surrounds LaVine and Vuc; two guys known for not exactly lifting teams even when putting up All Star numbers?

I put LaVine's playoff series wins line for Chicago o/u at 1.0. How many non-Chicago fans are taking the over? This looks like a great push to move up a tier in terms of respectability, but even in terms of that; are they really better than if they went after some of the more affordable players? Aaron Gordon age-wise and athleticism and not capping the center defensive output I would have liked better. Vuc feels impatient and rushed, slapshot improvement in a very paperthin way.

If they had given a 1st and Lauri for Lonzo I would have said they overpaid... and liked it a ton more.
Selling Thad for a pair of 2nds and being a firm play in team I would have liked better.
Having a real plan with Markaneen?
Taking a flier on Bagley?
Lots of options this trade deadline, and I disliked this not so much directionally, but as the execution for moving in now.

He wasn't available, but if Chicago has spent 2 1sts and had FVV and could sell me on a FVV/LaVine/Williams / we find 2 guys going forward, I could applaud the push in. This move? yeah, I listed a C- first because when they win 2 extra games people will want to congratulate the boldness, but it feels like a GM saving himself from being fired for a year, only to look worse when fired in two years type move.

gobullschi · Post #117 » by **gobullschi** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:51 pm

I’m surprised so many people view this as a good deal for Orlando. They could end up with 2 non lottery picks for an all-star. Pretty big risk. WCJ is not the young player I would have targeted either. His ceiling is so low. One of the worst draft picks made by the previous regime.

Post #118 » by **HomoSapien** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:22 pm

Colbinii wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Bulls fans overwhelmingly seem to love this trade. Surprised so many have this as a win for the Magic. I think the Bulls are going to be dangerous moving forward.

"Fans of team believe they overwhelming won the trade they were in"

In other news, Water is wet.

Nope, not that fan base. Bulls fans basically feel like they blow every move they make -- coaching hires, trades, draft picks, signings etc. For the majority of the fanbase to say, hey this was a great move for us is something I've never seen on that forum (outside of rejoicing when GarPax were replaced).

Post #119 » by **Slava** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:57 pm

Long shot but is Porter going to get a buy out?

Ducklett · Post #120 » by **Ducklett** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:49 pm

Slava wrote:Long shot but is Porter going to get a buy out?

Doesn't look like it. The Magic's injuries which caused the trades have left us with only 8 available. We need him as a warm body.

I don't blame the Bulls fans for being super excited. Vucevic is a loyal guy that is easy to like and plays with fire.

Who won the trade?