Woj: Dipo to Miami

[K_chile22]

Edited: It was the Bucks pick, which is 20s range, and the likelihood of that being a player as good as Allen is relatively low.


I thought they did OK in the Harden deal, but thought the Cavs got the best of it at the time, and this part was definitely fumbled.

Is Allen the guy their future is dependent on? Absolutely not, so again, what does spending $20M on him do for them. He won't have positive value on that deal, he'll be properly paid. Made no sense to hold onto him

I'd say the same could be said about Wood, and there's no guarantees what his contract is, but flipping him for a late first wasn't great IMO. Thinking more its probably fine value, but I'd also want good young players.

I do get the logic of it, and thinking more get what you're saying too. I'm kinda coming around on it but am high on Allen too and not entirely sure I'm sold on Wood as a cornerstone.

Wood absolutely has positive value and is much better and will likely be much cheaper than Allen and only three years older. Allen's value would be worse now than it was then if he was backing up Wood on a terrible team. It was the right move unless the rockets were trying to lock into a team fighting for the eighth seed for the foreseeable future and even then not sure how much it would help to have two of your better players be centers

[bondom34]

Is Allen the guy their future is dependent on? Absolutely not, so again, what does spending $20M on him do for them. He won't have positive value on that deal, he'll be properly paid. Made no sense to hold onto him

I'd say the same could be said about Wood, and there's no guarantees what his contract is, but flipping him for a late first wasn't great IMO. Thinking more its probably fine value, but I'd also want good young players.

I do get the logic of it, and thinking more get what you're saying too. I'm kinda coming around on it but am high on Allen too and not entirely sure I'm sold on Wood as a cornerstone.

Wood absolutely has positive value and is much better and will likely be much cheaper than Allen and only three years older. Allen's value would be worse now than it was then if he was backing up Wood on a terrible team. It was the right move unless the rockets were trying to lock into a team fighting for the eighth seed for the foreseeable future and even then not sure how much it would help to have two of your better players be centers

Edit b/c this is harder on mobile: And you make good points and I get them too, so you're kind of making sense and convincing me a bit .

I would say though those guys won't take you to the 8 seed and are just better assets. And if it's a long rebuild, Wood isn't cheap anymore. But if the choices are Simmons, KO/Bradley/28, or Allen/LeVert, I'd order them 1/3/2 in a vacuum.

I do get what you're saying in terms of bottoming out, and maybe some of it was on the LeVert part, but I'm a fan of Allen's as well and think he and Wood might have been able to even play some next to each other w/ Wood's shooting.

[K_chile22]

I'd say the same could be said about Wood, and there's no guarantees what his contract is, but flipping him for a late first wasn't great IMO. Thinking more its probably fine value, but I'd also want good young players.

I do get the logic of it, and thinking more get what you're saying too. I'm kinda coming around on it but am high on Allen too and not entirely sure I'm sold on Wood as a cornerstone.

Wood absolutely has positive value and is much better and will likely be much cheaper than Allen and only three years older. Allen's value would be worse now than it was then if he was backing up Wood on a terrible team. It was the right move unless the rockets were trying to lock into a team fighting for the eighth seed for the foreseeable future and even then not sure how much it would help to have two of your better players be centers

Edit b/c this is harder on mobile: And you make good points and I get them too, so you're kind of making sense and convincing me a bit .

I would say though those guys won't take you to the 8 seed and are just better assets. And if it's a long rebuild, Wood isn't cheap anymore. But if the choices are Simmons, KO/Bradley/28, or Allen/LeVert, I'd order them 1/3/2 in a vacuum.

I do get what you're saying in terms of bottoming out, and maybe some of it was on the LeVert part, but I'm a fan of Allen's as well and think he and Wood might have been able to even play some next to each other w/ Wood's shooting.

I thought we had agreed the Allen and Levert things were independent of each other, no? I already said the Levert thing was a dud 100%

[bondom34]

Wood absolutely has positive value and is much better and will likely be much cheaper than Allen and only three years older. Allen's value would be worse now than it was then if he was backing up Wood on a terrible team. It was the right move unless the rockets were trying to lock into a team fighting for the eighth seed for the foreseeable future and even then not sure how much it would help to have two of your better players be centers

Edit b/c this is harder on mobile: And you make good points and I get them too, so you're kind of making sense and convincing me a bit .

I would say though those guys won't take you to the 8 seed and are just better assets. And if it's a long rebuild, Wood isn't cheap anymore. But if the choices are Simmons, KO/Bradley/28, or Allen/LeVert, I'd order them 1/3/2 in a vacuum.

I do get what you're saying in terms of bottoming out, and maybe some of it was on the LeVert part, but I'm a fan of Allen's as well and think he and Wood might have been able to even play some next to each other w/ Wood's shooting.

I thought we had agreed the Allen and Levert things were independent of each other, no? I already said the Levert thing was a dud 100%

Edit See below.

[bondom34]

Edit b/c this is harder on mobile: And you make good points and I get them too, so you're kind of making sense and convincing me a bit .

I would say though those guys won't take you to the 8 seed and are just better assets. And if it's a long rebuild, Wood isn't cheap anymore. But if the choices are Simmons, KO/Bradley/28, or Allen/LeVert, I'd order them 1/3/2 in a vacuum.

I do get what you're saying in terms of bottoming out, and maybe some of it was on the LeVert part, but I'm a fan of Allen's as well and think he and Wood might have been able to even play some next to each other w/ Wood's shooting.

I thought we had agreed the Allen and Levert things were independent of each other, no? I already said the Levert thing was a dud 100%

I guess I'd value Allen a bit more, but I may just be higher on him in general.

I graded the Cavs as the only real winner in the trade back in January.

Self quote and edited out above, my original post (which was kind of b/c I can't paint a real pro-Houston picture here mentally). Spoilered b/c I went in depth a bit, but yeah I've talked myself back out of it:

Spoiler:

Yeah really struggling to see any positive Houston spin, and I'm fairly low on LeVert. I'd say right now you could get more for LeVert or Allen alone than they just got for Oladipo. And the best case right now is a 50% shot at just getting a pick that some day might be as good as the guy you could have traded Harden for in the first place.

Their best case is still not good, and gives you a 50% shot at having a pick that could be as good as Simmons. I'd want one at least decent young guy back in a star trade.

And even without that I'd say LeVert/Allen would have well more value now than what they've got (seemed like the desire for Oladipo was in part because he's expiring and they got off a contract possibly). And again if it goes back to not wanting to be middle of the pack/having a long view, by then Wood is off the team possibly anyway or at least highly paid if he's worth it at the time.

SomI don't know if Wood should be a guy to block other players right now, and looking back right now w/ hindsight I don't see KO/Bradley/28 as more value than LeVert/Allen, even then it had some questions though I was generally OK with it as the trade return. And the Simmons part makes it harder. Even though I can see logic of some of it, looking back its kind of impossible for me to see a positive spin on it (oddly similar to the other Harden trade in some ways). I'd have Houston as the team who lost out most on deadline day this year with how this played out.

They valued Dipo as a possible future trade asset it seems, and he had no market where LeVert could have been re-flipped. Everyone kinda knew Dipo was gone. Some hindsight may be seeping in too, and like I said, thought it was a generally OK-ish return then, but would be the worst of the 3 possible returns right now pretty clearly and could have been well better, this didn't help it at all. The more I think about it the worse I feel like it looks.

Edit: Though it could turn depending on picks, but IDK if you can really pen Wood in as the building block just yet, and like the original Harden trade while I get some of the logic to it, it's judged in the end more on how it came out which right now isn't great w/ this part of the trade into it (Also, I don't really blame Stone, think a lot is on ownership and he's been dealt a really rough hand).
But pegging Wood that way quickly and not getting back a quality player while taking back the worse asset seems like a loss.

Edit again: And yeah thinking more it just didn't make sense. I'm not high on Levert either but take Allen, and the league seems higher on Levert than some here including myself. Now the whole thing is just not good.

[gambitx777]

I feel.like you could get more value out of piecing those three guys out than trading for oladipo and **** the bed on the trade.
Lavert allen and what's his name are better than oladipo imo

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[bondom34]

I feel.like you could get more value out of piecing those three guys out than trading for oladipo and **** the bed on the trade.
Lavert allen and what's his name are better than oladipo imo

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Sorta this. If you'd taken the other deal, you could just re-flip them and you'd be better off than you are now.

[cl2117]

For Miami I guess the try before you buy aspect here is important. Proving that Dipo can work with the rest of the Heat roster, which I'm skeptical on, before you invest heavily in him is probably worth the lottery protected swap. Low risk/high reward.

Tough one for the Rockets. What they did with Oladipo would ultimately play a big part in the overall view of the Harden trade and this is a pretty poor result. Feels like they put themselves on the clock with the Levert/Oladipo swap and then just couldn't properly cash in in time.

[Hal14]

Absolute steal. Miami is the perfect fit for him, and all it cost them was a late first plus some spare parts.

I agree that Dipo was at one point overrated but he’s still young with plenty of skill and has recently become underrated. Miami is a winning franchise and Spoelstra will find ways to get the most out of him. Miami doesn’t need him to be the star, and I think he’ll thrive next to Butler. Riley acquired him when his stock was at its lowest.

Houston should have just kept LaVert what are they doing?

Miami is the perfect fit for him, huh? How do you figure. MIA is really rolling the dice putting Butler and Oladipo on the same team. 2 guys who both have a reputation for being really hot headed and aggressive/abrasive personalities who have a history of causing dysfunction in the locker room, who both want to have the ball in their hands, who both want to score. You don't see that as a potential risk? Butler has been a head case everywhere he's been until MIA - why has it worked out for him in Miami? Because no one else on the team is an alpha male personality, all the other guys like Bam, Herro, Robinson are these laid back nice guys. I know Robinson personally, nicest kid on the planet, wouldn't hurt a fly.

And you say they gave up spare parts to get Oladipo. How is Olynyk a spare part? He's their starting PF. Now they have no PF, only Bjelica who is not capable of starting for a good basketball team. Bjelica couldn't even start on a bad Kings team. Bjelica can't play defense. MIA hoping to land Aldridge, but he's ready to check into a retirement home, Spurs dumped him cause he can't play D anymore..

[NBADraft2003]

Absolute steal. Miami is the perfect fit for him, and all it cost them was a late first plus some spare parts.

I agree that Dipo was at one point overrated but he’s still young with plenty of skill and has recently become underrated. Miami is a winning franchise and Spoelstra will find ways to get the most out of him. Miami doesn’t need him to be the star, and I think he’ll thrive next to Butler. Riley acquired him when his stock was at its lowest.

Houston should have just kept LaVert what are they doing?

Miami is the perfect fit for him, huh? How do you figure. MIA is really rolling the dice putting Butler and Oladipo on the same team. 2 guys who both have a reputation for being really hot headed and aggressive/abrasive personalities who have a history of causing dysfunction in the locker room, who both want to have the ball in their hands, who both want to score. You don't see that as a potential risk? Butler has been a head case everywhere he's been until MIA - why has it worked out for him in Miami? Because no one else on the team is an alpha male personality, all the other guys like Bam, Herro, Robinson are these laid back nice guys. I know Robinson personally, nicest kid on the planet, wouldn't hurt a fly.

And you say they gave up spare parts to get Oladipo. How is Olynyk a spare part? He's their starting PF. Now they have no PF, only Bjelica who is not capable of starting for a good basketball team. Bjelica couldn't even start on a bad Kings team. Bjelica can't play defense. MIA hoping to land Aldridge, but he's ready to check into a retirement home, Spurs dumped him cause he can't play D anymore..

Lol

Just about everything about this take is trash AND wrong

[Scoot McGroot]

Okay now that I've had some time to get over them not getting Lowry, gonna try and re-evaluate this for the Heat.

Positives:

Dragic can be really fresh and healthy in the playoffs. Butler can get some reduced load as well. Dipo isn't good, but he can handle some usage and that should pay dividends in the playoffs.

Miami has 2 great players and then some really good, but also really inconsistent role players. Dipo is just another option for Spo to pull from the bag on nights when Herro, Nunn, Iggy, Ariza, or Dragic don't have it going.

I think their best lineups would be Bam at the 5 and Butler at the 4 and swapping Olynyk for Dipo pretty much ensures we are going to see that. Bjelica is the only other big they could even really play. And LMA if he shows up really isn't the answer.

Flexbility this off-season. You trade for Lowry, you re-sign him. Now I think that's a great option, but this gives them more. Dipo has to play into those plans at this point not out of them.

Dipo isn't still the defender of his reputation, but he's better than what they had for smaller guards.


I still don't like it, but once I accept Lowry wasn't something they were willing to pay for(and I'm not arguing the price--so whatever price you assume, I'll assume) I'm more meh than negative.

I haven’t watched Oladipo in Houston as my League Pass time is really cut short with a 2 year old and a wife working crazier hours than ever, but I’m floored that Oladipo/Houston got to this point. In his short time in Indy this season, Vic was really starting to look like his old self. We were seeing his athleticism return. We were putting him on opponents tough small guards, and he was doing well. He wasn’t finishing like his old self, but there were flashes that hinted it was returning. Then I look at what he did statistically in Houston, and what others I trust on this forum have pointed out about him, and it just blows my mind. Was he sandbagging the Houston time to get where he wanted in Miami? I just....wut?

[Scoot McGroot]

Absolute steal. Miami is the perfect fit for him, and all it cost them was a late first plus some spare parts.

I agree that Dipo was at one point overrated but he’s still young with plenty of skill and has recently become underrated. Miami is a winning franchise and Spoelstra will find ways to get the most out of him. Miami doesn’t need him to be the star, and I think he’ll thrive next to Butler. Riley acquired him when his stock was at its lowest.

Houston should have just kept LaVert what are they doing?

Miami is the perfect fit for him, huh? How do you figure. MIA is really rolling the dice putting Butler and Oladipo on the same team. 2 guys who both have a reputation for being really hot headed and aggressive/abrasive personalities who have a history of causing dysfunction in the locker room, who both want to have the ball in their hands, who both want to score. You don't see that as a potential risk? Butler has been a head case everywhere he's been until MIA - why has it worked out for him in Miami? Because no one else on the team is an alpha male personality, all the other guys like Bam, Herro, Robinson are these laid back nice guys. I know Robinson personally, nicest kid on the planet, wouldn't hurt a fly.

And you say they gave up spare parts to get Oladipo. How is Olynyk a spare part? He's their starting PF. Now they have no PF, only Bjelica who is not capable of starting for a good basketball team. Bjelica couldn't even start on a bad Kings team. Bjelica can't play defense. MIA hoping to land Aldridge, but he's ready to check into a retirement home, Spurs dumped him cause he can't play D anymore..

I’ll say this, but Oladipo isn’t at all “hot headed” or an “abrasive personality” in the locker room. He’s fine enough in his personal interactions. He can be a bit cool and distant, but he doesn’t get guys fired up angry in any way. His biggest fault is that he thinks he’s a big time “brand” and focuses too much on that, without recognizing that if the basketball isn’t great, he has no brand to build. If anything, he’s more of a “snake” but always seems cool to his teammates in person, if that makes sense?

[jbk1234]

People keep leaving out the Cavs eating Prince's future salary (as well as a good chunk of his present salary), midseason, when discussing the Allen aspect of this and that's a mistake IMO. There was no way the Rockets owner was paying the tax after trading Harden and in the middle of a pandemic. The guy made his money in the hospitality industry.

That meant they had to find a third team willing to add salary this year, add salary next year, part with a first, and do it all mid-season. You're only talking about a handful of teams, tops, who were willing and able to do that.

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[HartfordWhalers]

People keep leaving out the Cavs eating Prince's future salary (as well as a good chunk of his present salary), midseason, when discussing the Allen aspect of this and that's a mistake IMO. There was no way the Rockets owner was paying the tax after trading Harden and in the middle of a pandemic. The guy made his money in the hospitality industry.

That meant they had to find a third team willing to add salary this year, add salary next year, part with a first, and do it all mid-season. You're only talking about a handful of teams, tops, who were willing and able to do that.

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And all that, for the right to pay Allen big.

If Houston kept Allen, and Cleveland offered 4/80; I’m not sure Houston would match. I love how Houston has played this.

[K_chile22]

People keep leaving out the Cavs eating Prince's future salary (as well as a good chunk of his present salary), midseason, when discussing the Allen aspect of this and that's a mistake IMO. There was no way the Rockets owner was paying the tax after trading Harden and in the middle of a pandemic. The guy made his money in the hospitality industry.

That meant they had to find a third team willing to add salary this year, add salary next year, part with a first, and do it all mid-season. You're only talking about a handful of teams, tops, who were willing and able to do that.

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And all that, for the right to pay Allen big.

If Houston kept Allen, and Cleveland offered 4/80; I’m not sure Houston would match. I love how Houston has played this.

IDK if I'd say love based on the Levert thing going bust, but I think way too many people are judging the Harden deal based on current value when that was never the reason they made the deal. We won't know how this worked out in full until 2027 and I've legitimately seen takes on twitter about how OKC got a better return for steven Adams than the Rockets did for Harden and it makes my brain hurt. If they wanted to be a 7/8 seed they would've taken simmons and been done with it

[VDT]

We will see how the trade works on court but i feel that having Bam, Butler and Oladipo on the court hurts their spacing significantly. I am also not sure how Oladipo fits their team oriented playstyle the helped them in the last postseason. If they try to play iso basketball they dont have enough talent to make noise in the playoffs.

[Apz]

At the end of the day, rockets got **** for harden. This trade alone is baf, but if grumpy dipo demands touches it might be a lose lose.

Still, houston should have taken the younger allen and sold wood when his value was really high. If u gonna reset, do it properly, never halfarse it like magic and some more teams done for many years. Magic did the right thibg this year

[daoneandonly]

I remember there was a Bulls fan (I think), who kept posting trades where Dallas give up 2 first round picks, plus unprotecting the 2023 knicks pick for Dipo. He was adamant that was Dipo's worth, I hope he posts on the crow thread about how off that valuation was

This is Dipo's value, he's just not that good

[Hal14]

Absolute steal. Miami is the perfect fit for him, and all it cost them was a late first plus some spare parts.

I agree that Dipo was at one point overrated but he’s still young with plenty of skill and has recently become underrated. Miami is a winning franchise and Spoelstra will find ways to get the most out of him. Miami doesn’t need him to be the star, and I think he’ll thrive next to Butler. Riley acquired him when his stock was at its lowest.

Houston should have just kept LaVert what are they doing?

Miami is the perfect fit for him, huh? How do you figure. MIA is really rolling the dice putting Butler and Oladipo on the same team. 2 guys who both have a reputation for being really hot headed and aggressive/abrasive personalities who have a history of causing dysfunction in the locker room, who both want to have the ball in their hands, who both want to score. You don't see that as a potential risk? Butler has been a head case everywhere he's been until MIA - why has it worked out for him in Miami? Because no one else on the team is an alpha male personality, all the other guys like Bam, Herro, Robinson are these laid back nice guys. I know Robinson personally, nicest kid on the planet, wouldn't hurt a fly.

And you say they gave up spare parts to get Oladipo. How is Olynyk a spare part? He's their starting PF. Now they have no PF, only Bjelica who is not capable of starting for a good basketball team. Bjelica couldn't even start on a bad Kings team. Bjelica can't play defense. MIA hoping to land Aldridge, but he's ready to check into a retirement home, Spurs dumped him cause he can't play D anymore..

I’ll say this, but Oladipo isn’t at all “hot headed” or an “abrasive personality” in the locker room. He’s fine enough in his personal interactions. He can be a bit cool and distant, but he doesn’t get guys fired up angry in any way. His biggest fault is that he thinks he’s a big time “brand” and focuses too much on that, without recognizing that if the basketball isn’t great, he has no brand to build. If anything, he’s more of a “snake” but always seems cool to his teammates in person, if that makes sense?

Makes sense. I'll take your word for it, being a Pacers fan. Sounds like maybe the issues Oladipo has had have been moreso with team management and less with teammates. So he could be a good fit in MIA, we'll see..not sure if there will be enough shots to go around though for Butler/Bam/Herro/Robinson/Dragic/Oladipo..

[Hal14]

Absolute steal. Miami is the perfect fit for him, and all it cost them was a late first plus some spare parts.

I agree that Dipo was at one point overrated but he’s still young with plenty of skill and has recently become underrated. Miami is a winning franchise and Spoelstra will find ways to get the most out of him. Miami doesn’t need him to be the star, and I think he’ll thrive next to Butler. Riley acquired him when his stock was at its lowest.

Houston should have just kept LaVert what are they doing?

Miami is the perfect fit for him, huh? How do you figure. MIA is really rolling the dice putting Butler and Oladipo on the same team. 2 guys who both have a reputation for being really hot headed and aggressive/abrasive personalities who have a history of causing dysfunction in the locker room, who both want to have the ball in their hands, who both want to score. You don't see that as a potential risk? Butler has been a head case everywhere he's been until MIA - why has it worked out for him in Miami? Because no one else on the team is an alpha male personality, all the other guys like Bam, Herro, Robinson are these laid back nice guys. I know Robinson personally, nicest kid on the planet, wouldn't hurt a fly.

And you say they gave up spare parts to get Oladipo. How is Olynyk a spare part? He's their starting PF. Now they have no PF, only Bjelica who is not capable of starting for a good basketball team. Bjelica couldn't even start on a bad Kings team. Bjelica can't play defense. MIA hoping to land Aldridge, but he's ready to check into a retirement home, Spurs dumped him cause he can't play D anymore..

Lol

Just about everything about this take is trash AND wrong

Says the Heat fan who bashes someone's else's post without backing it up with anything of substance