Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Chinook]

I don't think there's a third team out there, because Minny can't offer anything of what anyone would want. At best, they can offer an endless string of firsts to teams to try to grab win-now pieces, but if they are holding onto KAT/Russell/Edwards, they don't have the pieces to add anything to what they'd be buying. That the Wolves are even still having discussions suggests Simmons' value is in the absolute toilet right now.

Its actually the opposite.

The reason a deal directly between the wolves and sixers is difficult is due to both teams wanting to make win now moves which improve their chances to compete starting this season. The third team would be a team in the middle of or about to start a rebuild, who had veteran pieces they would trade for future draft compensation. A team like Orlando, Houston, or Detroit could give up pieces like Ross/Harris/Wood/Grant that could help a team now for draft picks to assist their rebuild.

It's not the opposite. No one with actual win-now pieces is going to take the B- or C-Level picks that aren't going to Philly for their win-now players. If the Sixers don't get a star for Simmons, then they'll need to retain the ability to acquire one later. That means they'll want future value in addition to the present value. Minny can't both provide that and give teams what they'd want for their pieces. A 2028 unprotected first isn't valueless, but most GMs don't have the job security to trade for a pick that'll likely be made by another exec. It's even more the case when factoring in swaps with teams trading their win-now pieces to help Minny get a star. It's not likely that a team like Orlando will feel confident that a 2027 swap will even convey, let alone be good enough on its own to do a deal.

[Skybox]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

Morey isn't totally opposed to getting cute though, either I dont think. So a huge pick package now, that he can combine with Maxey + Thybulle? later to bring back a superstar Guard he may be intrigued with. That's probably his thinking behind some of the leaked pre-draft asks he was gunning for. Just because Dame isn't available now doesn't mean that will be the case in December/January.

This. Very much this.

Morey would monitor Dame, Beal, or other disgruntled star availability.

I suppose it's possible but a gutsy move to "waste" a season waiting and hoping that your other cast members don't get pissy. I'm sure a 3-way would be the likeliest for immediate help. If I'm MIN, I give some thought to including Edwards(and not much more) to get it done.

[toooskies]

Yeah, quick no from the Cavs. If they're rebuilding they'll just take some of the 1sts, if they're trying to be competitive in the next 1-2 years they'll keep their guys.

[Texas Chuck]

inappropriate content removed -- Chuck

- inappropriate use of mod privileges there Chuck, that comment was about as tame as they come here on RealGM.

It was tasteless and added nothing of value to discussion. Next time make your point differently and there is no issue.

And this will have no impact on whatever awards you are trying to win on the General Board. I wish you all the best in those endeavors.

And I mean that without the dripping sarcasm you used. I get some of you like to be too cool for the mods and paint us as power hungry or whatever. And fine, think what you will. I will continue to edit out misogynistic posts on boards I moderate.

[Wolveswin]

Morey isn't totally opposed to getting cute though, either I dont think. So a huge pick package now, that he can combine with Maxey + Thybulle? later to bring back a superstar Guard he may be intrigued with. That's probably his thinking behind some of the leaked pre-draft asks he was gunning for. Just because Dame isn't available now doesn't mean that will be the case in December/January.

This. Very much this.

Morey would monitor Dame, Beal, or other disgruntled star availability.

I suppose it's possible but a gutsy move to "waste" a season waiting and hoping that your other cast members don't get pissy. I'm sure a 3-way would be the likeliest for immediate help. If I'm MIN, I give some thought to including Edwards(and not much more) to get it done.

Oh it will be a 3 teamer 100%.

To Philly: Best Win-Now Piece from 3rd Team (not named Dame or Beal who aren’t available now) + Wolves 1sts

To Third Team: Expiring and/or Filler + Wolves Asset(s)

To Wolves: Simmons

Edwards for Simmons is off the table. For Wolves it would need to be Simmons++ to even be in discussion.

[HornetJail]

I don't know how comfortable I am with Minnesota sending any unprotected picks past 2024 or 2025 when KAT and Simmons (respectively) are free agents. I'd probably want heavier protection than this or take out the 2027 pick.

I also don't see Simmons' value approaching Harden's value- at this point he's realistically closer to what NOLA got for Jrue Holiday, which was 4 1sts and a couple role players... and Minnesota picks just have more value than Milwaukee picks. Harden fetched 8 picks+swaps and filler. I don't see a way Simmons fetches six more valuable picks+swaps and Sexton. That's way too much.

I'd say leave McDaniels out of it, make it 2022 1st unprot, 2024 1st, 2026 1st (top 7 prot till 2028), 1 or 2 pick swaps in the middle, Beasley and Beverley, and some 2nds to Philly. And then if Philly wants Sexton, move one MIN pick and the 2nds for Sexton. I'd be surprised if the rebuilding package for Simmons was worth any more than this.

[Mr Puddles]

inappropriate content removed -- Chuck

- inappropriate use of mod privileges there Chuck, that comment was about as tame as they come here on RealGM.

It was tasteless and added nothing of value to discussion. Next time make your point differently and there is no issue.

And this will have no impact on whatever awards you are trying to win on the General Board. I wish you all the best in those endeavors.

REMOVED after you edited your post.

[jscott]

I will continue to edit out misogynistic posts on boards I moderate.

Thank you for doing that. Much appreciated.

[jbent87]

Oh and I don't know why Minnesota even wants Simmons. Simmons more than likely has no interest in the Wolves at all. Reportedly he wants to go to Cali.

I think if Cali is out of the question the next best option for him would be to form a Gen Z big three with Loading and KAT. That way everyone can just go on Instagram before every game and never bust each others balls or call each other out/hold each other accountable. Everyone just chills and compares outfits and goes out there every night and gets their cardio in and gets paid.

[jscott]

Oh and I don't know why Minnesota even wants Simmons. Simmons more than likely has no interest in the Wolves at all. Reportedly he wants to go to Cali.

He and KAT are friends.

[VeritasTri]

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in vague reports. Perhaps I'll wait until Simmons refuses to play, and forfeits his salary, before I entertain your scenario.

I knew this would be the route you took, to point to it being unfounded speculation. You are correct, we do not know in fact what has happened behind the scenes or the intentions of either party. But intelligent people can logically extrapolate that based on what we do know. For instance there were rumors of Lillard demanding a trade, Lillard responded to them personally and said they were untrue. Has Ben said anything? Did he declare it nonsense and pledge his allegiance? Its not even a secret the sixers have been looking to trade him, nobody is debating that reality (even yourself).

Stick your head in the sand all you want, it doesnt change reality.

Why did the wolves trade Butler? Why didnt they just make him forfeit his salary? Because thats not how the real world of the NBA works. In fact their playing hardball and not giving in to his demands earlier is exactly the reason they got a garbage return for him. The longer the sixers play this stupid game, the more they paint themselves into a corner and their potential return dwindles.

You will like Malik Beasley, hes going to hit some big 3's for you guys this year.

[VeritasTri]

It's not the opposite. No one with actual win-now pieces is going to take the B- or C-Level picks that aren't going to Philly for their win-now players. If the Sixers don't get a star for Simmons, then they'll need to retain the ability to acquire one later. That means they'll want future value in addition to the present value. Minny can't both provide that and give teams what they'd want for their pieces. A 2028 unprotected first isn't valueless, but most GMs don't have the job security to trade for a pick that'll likely be made by another exec. It's even more the case when factoring in swaps with teams trading their win-now pieces to help Minny get a star. It's not likely that a team like Orlando will feel confident that a 2027 swap will even convey, let alone be good enough on its own to do a deal.

#1. Philly wont get a star for Simmons, sorry if this obvious reality is hard to accept.
#2. Not every team with "win now" pieces is trying to "win now", and may value the future benefit of picks over a few wins in a non competitive season. Its literally the basis of how teams rebuild in the NBA.
#3. Why do you talk about 2027/2028 as if the next 6 years dont exist? Do you really think Simmons is fetching players and 3-4 picks and swaps? Jesus.
#4. At first I felt bad for Philly fans and the crushing reality that is going to be dropped on their heads when Simmons is dealt. Now im kinda looking forward to it.

[BullyKing]

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in vague reports. Perhaps I'll wait until Simmons refuses to play, and forfeits his salary, before I entertain your scenario.

I knew this would be the route you took, to point to it being unfounded speculation. You are correct, we do not know in fact what has happened behind the scenes or the intentions of either party. But intelligent people can logically extrapolate that based on what we do know. For instance there were rumors of Lillard demanding a trade, Lillard responded to them personally and said they were untrue. Has Ben said anything? Did he declare it nonsense and pledge his allegiance? Its not even a secret the sixers have been looking to trade him, nobody is debating that reality (even yourself).

Stick your head in the sand all you want, it doesnt change reality.

Why did the wolves trade Butler? Why didnt they just make him forfeit his salary? Because thats not how the real world of the NBA works. In fact their playing hardball and not giving in to his demands earlier is exactly the reason they got a garbage return for him. The longer the sixers play this stupid game, the more they paint themselves into a corner and their potential return dwindles.

You will like Malik Beasley, hes going to hit some big 3's for you guys this year.

The Wolves traded Butler because he was 1/2 of a season away from expiring. Simmons has four years left. Terrible analogy, terrible logic.

[LAL1947]

I don't think Minnesota will be able to get Morey to bite without giving up Edwards.
KAT, Simmons and D'lo are supposedly BFFs (?) and on the same time-line too, so perhaps, they should roll with that trio instead of the one they have.

[Mr Puddles]

inappropriate content removed -- Chuck

- inappropriate use of mod privileges there Chuck, that comment was about as tame as they come here on RealGM.

It was tasteless and added nothing of value to discussion. Next time make your point differently and there is no issue.

And this will have no impact on whatever awards you are trying to win on the General Board. I wish you all the best in those endeavors.

And I mean that without the dripping sarcasm you used. I get some of you like to be too cool for the mods and paint us as power hungry or whatever. And fine, think what you will. I will continue to edit out misogynistic posts on boards I moderate.

How about you don't first remove my post and then afterwards claim it was "misogynistic" - when no one can see what I actually wrote. That's a pretty messed up thing to do, when there was zero misogyny in my post.

If you want to remove it, fine, but don't twist it into something it was not when no one can see its content anymore and only has your messed up interpretation to go by. It would be like someone removing a post of yours that had zero racist connotations and then writing underneath "there's no room for racism here", without other people being able to see what you actually posted anymore. I suggest you actually start doing some real moderating and remove that BS claim that you just made.

[Wolveswin]

The standing offer from Wolves now is:

Beasley + Beverley + 1sts (2023, 2025 unprotected) + Swaps (2022, 2024 unprotected)

76ers are asking for more 1sts and/or McDaniels, and Wolves less and no McDaniels.

76ers are probably saying, “Go find a third team win-now player.” And Wolves have. But of course those players aren’t close to Dame or Beal RGMers would want.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I'm making Minny go get the players I want with their assets or I'm going elsewhere, unless Edwards is involved.

[GutUNC]

Operating on the assumption that Simmons would come back to the team and dog it with 4 years left on his deal seems a bit....self-serving. We certainly can't eliminate that as a possibility but it's thrown around here as a presumed fact to slam a non-desirable deal through.

[GutUNC]

The standing offer from Wolves now is:

Beasley + Beverley + 1sts (2023, 2025 unprotected) + Swaps (2022, 2024 unprotected)

76ers are asking for more 1sts and/or McDaniels, and Wolves less and no McDaniels.

Link?

[VeritasTri]

The Wolves traded Butler because he was 1/2 of a season away from expiring. Simmons has four years left. Terrible analogy, terrible logic.

They traded him before the season started, not mid season. His only having one year left on his deal simply meant teams would only invest significant assets to get him if they believed they could re-sign him, which is why the suitors were limited to the likes of Philly/Miami/Houston. Simmons desire to play for particular teams accomplishes the same thing, teams like the cavs or magic arent in the running because he doesnt want to play there. Regardless of if its "he will only play for X" or "he will only re-sign with X" the result is the same, lowered competition for services and lowered return for their current team.

Just trade for Lillard bro!

Seriously, its going to be hilarious when Simmons is traded and Philly fans cope with the reality of the return.