RealGM

tiderulz wrote:

NotACat wrote:

drosestruts wrote:I still like the idea of Orlando targeting a guard - I suppose how much value they want to pay to acquire one impacts who they can target - but I think players like Zach LaVine or Donovan Mitchell would fit great in Orlando as long as they're not giving up Suggs, Banchero, or Wagner - and I think both may be available this summer.

Do you think the Bulls would make Lonzo available? The Magic FO have shown that they have some patience when it comes to rehabilitating players and a healthy Lonzo would fit perfectly with the Magic

what is a healthy Ball. i dont think I have seen that in the NBA

Sadly...he really would be a tremendous fit...but, I haven't seen anything to indicate his condition looks good. Kind of a mysterious knee thing - not a simple repair and rehab. ORL's had too much of that stuff already with Fultz and Isaac to take another leap into the abyss.

Who says no…

Franz Wagner + Black + #18 (2024 Magic 1st)

FOR

Cade Cunningham + Ausar Thompson + Sarr (via 2024 Pistons 1st)

Assuming Magic scout and love Sarr.

This is a legit Magic lineup:
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Ausar | Ingles? | Houstan | Jett
Suggs
Cade | Anthony

Wolveswin wrote:Who says no…

Franz Wagner + Black + #18 (2024 Magic 1st)

FOR

Cade Cunningham + Ausar Thompson + Sarr (via 2024 Pistons 1st)

Assuming Magic scout and love Sarr.

This is a legit Magic lineup:
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Ausar | Ingles? | Houstan | Jett
Suggs
Cade | Anthony

Orlando does.

tiderulz wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:Who says no…

Franz Wagner + Black + #18 (2024 Magic 1st)

FOR

Cade Cunningham + Ausar Thompson + Sarr (via 2024 Pistons 1st)

Assuming Magic scout and love Sarr.

This is a legit Magic lineup:
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Ausar | Ingles? | Houstan | Jett
Suggs
Cade | Anthony

Orlando does.

And why?

Wolveswin wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:Who says no…

Franz Wagner + Black + #18 (2024 Magic 1st)

FOR

Cade Cunningham + Ausar Thompson + Sarr (via 2024 Pistons 1st)

Assuming Magic scout and love Sarr.

This is a legit Magic lineup:
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Ausar | Ingles? | Houstan | Jett
Suggs
Cade | Anthony

Orlando does.

And why?

I would do this trade as a magic fan

Wolveswin wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:Who says no…

Franz Wagner + Black + #18 (2024 Magic 1st)

FOR

Cade Cunningham + Ausar Thompson + Sarr (via 2024 Pistons 1st)

Assuming Magic scout and love Sarr.

This is a legit Magic lineup:
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Ausar | Ingles? | Houstan | Jett
Suggs
Cade | Anthony

Orlando does.

And why?

this is just me. But good, 2-way SF's are harder to find than good PG's. Wagner has been a more efficient player. I feel it is easier for Orlando to find a PG than replace a SF, as I am also not a believer in Thompson as a good SF.

Orlando makes that Detroit trade

Skybox wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

NotACat wrote:Do you think the Bulls would make Lonzo available? The Magic FO have shown that they have some patience when it comes to rehabilitating players and a healthy Lonzo would fit perfectly with the Magic

what is a healthy Ball. i dont think I have seen that in the NBA

Sadly...he really would be a tremendous fit...but, I haven't seen anything to indicate his condition looks good. Kind of a mysterious knee thing - not a simple repair and rehab. ORL's had too much of that stuff already with Fultz and Isaac to take another leap into the abyss.

Lonzo recently had some sort of new surgery - he will sort of be the first case study of a professional athlete having this procedure. It's either a huge hail mary that won't work or much like with Tommy John surgery in Baseball we'll forever refer to this as the Lonzo Ball surgery and it could have a huge impact on extending players' career for years to come.

From Orlandos perspective if their first 30 plans don't work out and they're still sitting on a bunch of cap space, I guess at some point absorbing Lonzo's expiring contract, providing the Bulls cap relief, and rolling the dice on his ability to play could make some sense. He would as you've mentioned, be a great fit if he were healthy.

tiderulz wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

tiderulz wrote:Orlando does.

And why?

this is just me. But good, 2-way SF's are harder to find than good PG's. Wagner has been a more efficient player. I feel it is easier for Orlando to find a PG than replace a SF, as I am also not a believer in Thompson as a good SF.

Orlando would be crazy to turn down that trade.

Suggs
Cade
?
Paolo
WCJ

You’d have enough positional versatility with Suggs and Cade that you could use Sarr/Thompson/assets to fill any of the 1-3 spots. Your offense would improve significantly and your defense probably doesn’t decline much (Cade is a solid defender). This is a home-run trade for Orlando.

eyriq wrote:Great ideas here.

I agree that Orlando needs to improve the guard rotation and upgrade center.

Claxton could be the top priority.

For the guard rotation, Orlando has just used two lotto picks on AB and Jett. Start AB.

Why do they need a center upgrade? Their rebounding and rim protection stats were fine (or even good). They were the number 3 defense in the league.

Any C they target as a free agent is going to be a marginal upgrade over WCJ because they aren’t getting a top 10 C and the ones they could get (Hartenstein or Claxton) can’t shoot at all, which probably makes Orlando’s offense worse just for some marginal defensive upgrade.

No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

ConSarnit wrote:
No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

I mean if you have a good defense without a really good defensive center, imagine the appeal of making it elite by adding one. Teams add to strengths regularly and a defensive center is absolutely additive more than adding say Beal to Phoenix was.

Their priority has to be an offensive player as good or better than Banchero. Maybe Wagner someday is that guy, but its been clear all year he's nowhere near where he needs to be. They are too hard-scoring.

But if you could upgrade center as well, why wouldn't they? Especially since that offensive player they are desperate to add is likely to not be a boon to the defense.

drosestruts wrote:

Skybox wrote:

tiderulz wrote:what is a healthy Ball. i dont think I have seen that in the NBA

Sadly...he really would be a tremendous fit...but, I haven't seen anything to indicate his condition looks good. Kind of a mysterious knee thing - not a simple repair and rehab. ORL's had too much of that stuff already with Fultz and Isaac to take another leap into the abyss.

Lonzo recently had some sort of new surgery - he will sort of be the first case study of a professional athlete having this procedure. It's either a huge hail mary that won't work or much like with Tommy John surgery in Baseball we'll forever refer to this as the Lonzo Ball surgery and it could have a huge impact on extending players' career for years to come.

From Orlandos perspective if their first 30 plans don't work out and they're still sitting on a bunch of cap space, I guess at some point absorbing Lonzo's expiring contract, providing the Bulls cap relief, and rolling the dice on his ability to play could make some sense. He would as you've mentioned, be a great fit if he were healthy.

I wish him the best...He turned out to be a really great player...CHI was the story of the NBA until he went down. I don't think he was given nearly enough recognition for his leadership, BBIQ/vision, defense, and shooting.

ConSarnit wrote:

eyriq wrote:Great ideas here.

I agree that Orlando needs to improve the guard rotation and upgrade center.

Claxton could be the top priority.

For the guard rotation, Orlando has just used two lotto picks on AB and Jett. Start AB.

Why do they need a center upgrade? Their rebounding and rim protection stats were fine (or even good). They were the number 3 defense in the league.

Any C they target as a free agent is going to be a marginal upgrade over WCJ because they aren’t getting a top 10 C and the ones they could get (Hartenstein or Claxton) can’t shoot at all, which probably makes Orlando’s offense worse just for some marginal defensive upgrade.

No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

WCJ was a good defender this season, and the Magic were great defensively, but that doesnt mean they cant be better. You are correct, they dont "need" to upgrade at center though.

If the Magic want to be an elite defensive team for a long time, theyre going to need a shot blocker, and Goga is a FA, which only leaves Isaac. Isaac is great but obviously there are injury concerns there.

You may not view Claxton as a top 10 center right now, but put him on the Magic with their defensive intensity, and its possible that he will be all-defensive team, DPOY candidate. He's a much better defender than WCJ.

As for spacing, Claxton will provide some type of spacing due to his length/athletecism and ability to finish at the rim. Not the same as WCJ but still will be fine. You lose out on 3pt shooting, but get a guard that can make threes and hopefully Franz regains his 3pt shot.

I dont mind just keeping WCJ though.

Texas Chuck wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:
No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

I mean if you have a good defense without a really good defensive center, imagine the appeal of making it elite by adding one. Teams add to strengths regularly and a defensive center is absolutely additive more than adding say Beal to Phoenix was.

Their priority has to be an offensive player as good or better than Banchero. Maybe Wagner someday is that guy, but its been clear all year he's nowhere near where he needs to be. They are too hard-scoring.

But if you could upgrade center as well, why wouldn't they? Especially since that offensive player they are desperate to add is likely to not be a boon to the defense.

They already have a near elite defense. They finished top 3 in the league. WCJ is a perfectly solid defensive C. He’s not going to win DPOY but he’s reliable. How much more juice can they squeeze there?

Also:

Franz
Paolo
Hartenstein or Claxton

Which teams have high level success with that poor of spacing from their 3-5?

Does anyone think ORL lost their playoff series because of defense? Or is it because they scored 100ppg on 42% shooting? They can’t afford to take any more steps back offensively if they have loftier goals. It’s a waste of resources to invest in a C when the things people are talking about here aren’t even a real issue (rim protection or rebounding). For a team like ORL I’d flat out rather just have WCJ over Hart/Claxton given their offensive limitations (ie lack of shooting).

This center thing is fixing a problem that doesn’t even really exist while seemingly ignoring the downsides of having maybe the worst shooting 3-5 situation in the league.

Wolveswin wrote:Who says no…

Franz Wagner + Black + #18 (2024 Magic 1st)

FOR

Cade Cunningham + Ausar Thompson + Sarr (via 2024 Pistons 1st)

Assuming Magic scout and love Sarr.

This is a legit Magic lineup:
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Ausar | Ingles? | Houstan | Jett
Suggs
Cade | Anthony

Detroit....

Although I doubt Magic would agree either.

Residual-Heat wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:

eyriq wrote:Great ideas here.

I agree that Orlando needs to improve the guard rotation and upgrade center.

Claxton could be the top priority.

For the guard rotation, Orlando has just used two lotto picks on AB and Jett. Start AB.

Why do they need a center upgrade? Their rebounding and rim protection stats were fine (or even good). They were the number 3 defense in the league.

Any C they target as a free agent is going to be a marginal upgrade over WCJ because they aren’t getting a top 10 C and the ones they could get (Hartenstein or Claxton) can’t shoot at all, which probably makes Orlando’s offense worse just for some marginal defensive upgrade.

No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

WCJ was a good defender this season, and the Magic were great defensively, but that doesnt mean they cant be better. You are correct, they dont "need" to upgrade at center though.

If the Magic want to be an elite defensive team for a long time, theyre going to need a shot blocker, and Goga is a FA, which only leaves Isaac. Isaac is great but obviously there are injury concerns there.

You may not view Claxton as a top 10 center right now, but put him on the Magic with their defensive intensity, and its possible that he will be all-defensive team, DPOY candidate. He's a much better defender than WCJ.

As for spacing, Claxton will provide some type of spacing due to his length/athletecism and ability to finish at the rim. Not the same as WCJ but still will be fine. You lose out on 3pt shooting, but get a guard that can make threes and hopefully Franz regains his 3pt shot.

I dont mind just keeping WCJ though.

This might be the most liberal use of the word spacing of all-time. How does Claxton’s “spacing” help Paolo or Franz, both of whom want to get the rim as a major source of offense?

Have you watched a team with 3 below average 3pt shooters at the 3-5? It completely compromises your offense. Can you name a single playoff team that has had success with such poor shooting?

The Magic already are an elite defensive team. They finished top 3 in the league in defensive rating.

ConSarnit wrote:

Residual-Heat wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:
Why do they need a center upgrade? Their rebounding and rim protection stats were fine (or even good). They were the number 3 defense in the league.

Any C they target as a free agent is going to be a marginal upgrade over WCJ because they aren’t getting a top 10 C and the ones they could get (Hartenstein or Claxton) can’t shoot at all, which probably makes Orlando’s offense worse just for some marginal defensive upgrade.

No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

WCJ was a good defender this season, and the Magic were great defensively, but that doesnt mean they cant be better. You are correct, they dont "need" to upgrade at center though.

If the Magic want to be an elite defensive team for a long time, theyre going to need a shot blocker, and Goga is a FA, which only leaves Isaac. Isaac is great but obviously there are injury concerns there.

You may not view Claxton as a top 10 center right now, but put him on the Magic with their defensive intensity, and its possible that he will be all-defensive team, DPOY candidate. He's a much better defender than WCJ.

As for spacing, Claxton will provide some type of spacing due to his length/athletecism and ability to finish at the rim. Not the same as WCJ but still will be fine. You lose out on 3pt shooting, but get a guard that can make threes and hopefully Franz regains his 3pt shot.

I dont mind just keeping WCJ though.

This might be the most liberal use of the word spacing of all-time. How does Claxton’s “spacing” help Paolo or Franz, both of whom want to get the rim as a major source of offense?

Have you watched a team with 3 below average 3pt shooters at the 3-5? It completely compromises your offense. Can you name a single playoff team that has had success with such poor shooting?

The Magic already are an elite defensive team. They finished top 3 in the league in defensive rating.

you dont like the term spacing use another word like "attention" doesnt matter. You want to leave Claxton under the basket to help on Paolo/Franz it'll provide easier buckets for your big man, and Claxton will grab any misses.

Its not like we didnt see Paolo and Franz play with a non-shooting bigman. We did with Goga. He started like 30 games, and Goga is an even worse offensive player than Claxton.

Again though i am not saying i would be looking to replace WCJ right now. I am just giving you the other perspective, but this whole shooting issue mainly comes down to Paolo and Franz. We can add shooting around them, but we need both of them to get better. They're both still 21-22. Franz especially needs to figure out what went wrong and fix it, because his shooting was fine in his first 2 seasons.

I think that thinking about Claxton is a pipe dream unless they are willing to offer him a considerable overpayment, new coach Jordi Fernández has declared how important NC will be in his approach to the game and how he sees it, as a future DPOY... no I think you're starting out on your new team making that kind of statement, without having an idea of ​​what the plans of Claxton and the FO of the NETS are... although we'll see I guess... Anyway, I don't see MAGIC's urgency in overpaying for a center... WCJ doesn't seem like a weakness to me + he has a very good contract and I also think that in his draft range there will be good prospects in the position... in my opinion, I would put all the chips in the best scoring guard they can get ..which has been the reason why they have been eliminated from the playoffs

ConSarnit wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:
No one has been able to provide an actual reason why ORL needs a C upgrade yet I’ve seen it posted here many times.

I mean if you have a good defense without a really good defensive center, imagine the appeal of making it elite by adding one. Teams add to strengths regularly and a defensive center is absolutely additive more than adding say Beal to Phoenix was.

Their priority has to be an offensive player as good or better than Banchero. Maybe Wagner someday is that guy, but its been clear all year he's nowhere near where he needs to be. They are too hard-scoring.

But if you could upgrade center as well, why wouldn't they? Especially since that offensive player they are desperate to add is likely to not be a boon to the defense.

They already have a near elite defense. They finished top 3 in the league. WCJ is a perfectly solid defensive C. He’s not going to win DPOY but he’s reliable. How much more juice can they squeeze there?

Also:

Franz
Paolo
Hartenstein or Claxton

Which teams have high level success with that poor of spacing from their 3-5?

Does anyone think ORL lost their playoff series because of defense? Or is it because they scored 100ppg on 42% shooting? They can’t afford to take any more steps back offensively if they have loftier goals. It’s a waste of resources to invest in a C when the things people are talking about here aren’t even a real issue (rim protection or rebounding). For a team like ORL I’d flat out rather just have WCJ over Hart/Claxton given their offensive limitations (ie lack of shooting).

This center thing is fixing a problem that doesn’t even really exist while seemingly ignoring the downsides of having maybe the worst shooting 3-5 situation in the league.

i assume by #3 in the league, you are referring to points allowed, and that is somewhat based on Orlando's slower pace of play. Orlando was 27th out of 30 in pace of play and 26th in possessions. Those will slow the game and lower opponents points. So that #3 defense isnt quite what it seems. Center position isnt the first change i would make, but I could stand with an upgrade there.

Astaluego wrote:I think that thinking about Claxton is a pipe dream unless they are willing to offer him a considerable overpayment, new coach Jordi Fernández has declared how important NC will be in his approach to the game and how he sees it, as a future DPOY... no I think you're starting out on your new team making that kind of statement, without having an idea of ​​what the plans of Claxton and the FO of the NETS are... although we'll see I guess... Anyway, I don't see MAGIC's urgency in overpaying for a center... WCJ doesn't seem like a weakness to me + he has a very good contract and I also think that in his draft range there will be good prospects in the position... in my opinion, I would put all the chips in the best scoring guard they can get ..which has been the reason why they have been eliminated from the playoffs

they need a legit PG more than a SG. Suggs can play SG well enough if he has a PG that can take over setting everyone up as well as scoring themselves