Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason

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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#101 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:12 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:I didn’t know that about unguaranteed contracts.
Not saying Houston would move him for 35 year old Jrue


Haha that's exactly the trade you posted though :D
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#102 » by redslastlaugh » Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:14 pm

Lol, true… but I hadn’t had my coffee yet lol
hugepatsfan wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:I didn’t know that about unguaranteed contracts.
Not saying Houston would move him for 35 year old Jrue


Haha that's exactly the trade you posted though :D
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#103 » by ReggiesKnicks » Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:14 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:Not saying Houston would move him for 35 year old Jrue


redslastlaugh wrote:Houston receives Jrue Holiday
Utah receives Reed Sheppard
Boston receives Jock Landale (unguaranteed), KJ Martin (unguarantee), Jordan Clarkson


That's actually what you did say.

If Reed Sheppard isn't capable of earning rotation minutes next year, then Houston may look to moving off Reed. He would still have value though, certainly more than someone of Jordan Clarkson's caliber.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#104 » by psman2 » Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:18 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:I didn’t know that about unguaranteed contracts.
About Reed Sheppard, generally I’d agree you don’t want to give up on a point guard picked third overall (see Chauncey B.) but in this case, Houston has so many young guys, future picks coming in, a win now coach and the particulars around the top of the 2024 draft being weak and all things considered, I’d argue Reed Sheppard is not the typical top three pick. Not saying Houston would move him for 35 year old Jrue but that that notion is less absurd than it’d be for most third overall picks after their rookie year.


Valuing him equilvant to Clarkson is absurd. Houston is not going to bring in a backup PG that is 35 years old making avg 35m for 3 more years to back up FVV, spending upwards of 80 million next year on that combo. Maybe Houston trades FVV to a 3rd team and takes Holiday for basically free but they are not going to just throw in Sheppard because you think....well they have too many young guys so might as well throw him away. You can likely still land Clarkson in that type of deal if that is your goal without having to include any assets from Boston or Houston.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#105 » by redslastlaugh » Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:21 pm

Jordan Clarkson is no on-court prize, lol, his value is the savings since he makes $14 next year as an expiring. To me, since the trade motivation is financial, trading Jrue for no money back is the ideal from Boston perspective, you know as a financial matter.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#106 » by Larry_Russell » Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:59 pm

Not sure why New Orleans wouldnt be highly interested in Jrue personally.

Herb Jones, Kelly Olynyk for Jrue and pick?

I know they have Dejounte there, but I dont know, even if he is 100% returned to form, is the right fit there.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#107 » by redslastlaugh » Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:41 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:Holiday was a player who would decline once his athleticism went as a smaller wing defender. Once his quickness leaves the building (or body in this case) it's just hard for him to be effective on either side of the court.

Realistic ideas? I don't see any team wanting to commit to 3 years of Jrue Holiday at this stage.


I felt like that contract they gave him was ill advised. I think they'll have to pay someone to take that contract. He might have a positive effect on a team with a young point guard who needs a mentor but then there's 2 more seasons at a lot of money.

It was somewhat baffling decision to extend him, Derrick White and Sam Hauser all after the present owners decided they were going to sell the team. In the case of D. White the team issued one press release announcing the extension and then another right after saying, “we’re selling the team.”

Obviously ownership/front office knew the luxury tax penalties so obviously they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into, so maybe they’re planning to eat a big loss for a couple of years and this is baked in, I don’t know.

Most likely they will have to give a draft pick or two draft picks to get rid of a big contract, that’s my expectation. And they only have so many picks to restock around JTs second half of his career, so I really don’t understand the thought process for why they booked themselves into this spot after they’d won the chip. Mysterious, honestly

Edit: just as aside, when the Cs last won the chip, they decided for financial reasons that they couldn’t retain James Posey so they lost him for nothing in free agency. Fans were bummed, but it would have a worse blunder to re-sign Pose, knowing the cost, and then pay draft capital to another team to take him off the books. Most title teams lose players to FA, so yea, you can’t pay everyone, that’s how that goes.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#108 » by djFan71 » Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:50 pm

NYG wrote:So which teams would want Jrue Holiday this off-season? Let's start there.

To me it's vet teams that can make room and/or have contracts now to get rid of and/or up and coming contenders that want that vet leadership. In no order, I can see any of these teams interested:

Lakers, Clippers, Rockets, Mavs, Spurs, Magic, maybe Pistons.

I don't know all of their cap/apron status, so some may be out due to that. But on the court, he'd fit on those teams and help get them to higher level of contention.

I think Jrue has some positive value, even on his contract. This year's playoffs will go a long way to establishing how much. If he bounces back and proves that his production this year so far in the regular season is just a blip due to the finals/olympics/shoulder thing, and is back to his last year's form for the playoff run, his value is very solid. If he continues the way the season has gone and doesn't really put his imprint on things, then maybe BOS does have to pay to get off him.

Positive value isn't 3 first rounders or anything, but getting decent players and not paying a pick, or expiring useless players and maybe getting one back (late 1st or 2nds).
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#109 » by redslastlaugh » Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:26 pm

djFan71 wrote:
NYG wrote:So which teams would want Jrue Holiday this off-season? Let's start there.

To me it's vet teams that can make room and/or have contracts now to get rid of and/or up and coming contenders that want that vet leadership. In no order, I can see any of these teams interested:

Lakers, Clippers, Rockets, Mavs, Spurs, Magic, maybe Pistons.

I don't know all of their cap/apron status, so some may be out due to that. But on the court, he'd fit on those teams….

Pistons have practical projected capspace of $24 million according to spotrac. If they want to use it to absorb Jrue, they could send back:
Simone Fontecchio
Marcus Sasser
Who make a combined $11 million and take in Jrue who makes $32.4 million, with maybe a tweak here or there. And then Fontecchio is an $8.3 million expiring. For Detroit, they count on Jrue having a couple high level years left.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#110 » by redslastlaugh » Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:37 pm

Jerami Grant wasn’t ever even a star, lol, now he’s full on Bear Sterns lol …
jbk1234 wrote:Not with respect to Jrue specifically, but older stars on really expensive contracts is starting to feel like the mortgage-backed-security crisis.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#111 » by NYG » Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:57 am

Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#112 » by hugepatsfan » Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:13 am

NYG wrote:Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie


I think BOS cuts LAL out and keeps Gafford instead of Rui. They need depth at the 5 more than the 4, especially if Horford retires like you imply here.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#113 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:08 am

NYG wrote:Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie



This seems really bad for Dallas, no? I love Jrue and if this was 3 years ago Jrue, okay sure. But I think if Dallas had interest the deal is probably Gafford/Klay as the salary matching and then one can argue if Dallas needs to add this year's pick or something.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#114 » by djFan71 » Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:15 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie



This seems really bad for Dallas, no? I love Jrue and if this was 3 years ago Jrue, okay sure. But I think if Dallas had interest the deal is probably Gafford/Klay as the salary matching and then one can argue if Dallas needs to add this year's pick or something.

Agreed. Both Christie and Naji seems harsh. How does DAL see Klay? Salary ballast or positive value. From afar i can’t tell if it’s insulting to include him or if you’re happy to get off the $. Or Naji for that matter, same question.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#115 » by Astaluego » Wed Feb 19, 2025 9:04 am

djFan71 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie



This seems really bad for Dallas, no? I love Jrue and if this was 3 years ago Jrue, okay sure. But I think if Dallas had interest the deal is probably Gafford/Klay as the salary matching and then one can argue if Dallas needs to add this year's pick or something.

Agreed. Both Christie and Naji seems harsh. How does DAL see Klay? Salary ballast or positive value. From afar i can’t tell if it’s insulting to include him or if you’re happy to get off the $. Or Naji for that matter, same question.
Christie certainly wouldn't be in the trade... IMO...
Gafford/Klay + this year's pick, I think that's a really solid deal...
BOSTON gets Gafford + the Mavs pick and can send Klay and his late FRP for savings...
I imagine something like that..

Jrue to MAVS
Klay + Boston FRP top PISTONS
Gafford+ Sasser to BOSTON
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#116 » by hugepatsfan » Wed Feb 19, 2025 5:29 pm

Because of apron rules, I think DAL needs to send out more than Jrue's salary. I think they're a really, really solid fit for him on the court though. I think them keeping Klay makes more sense though. Part of why Jrue fits there well, IMO, is because they have an older player timeline with Kyrie/Klay/AD so Jrue's age lines up better. I think leaving him out probably alleviates the need to include a pick too which sets them up for another potential addition later.

Gafford
one of Martin/Marshall
Powell (after opt in)
Hardy

Is more outgoing salary than Jrue so it helps DAL with their apron math. They're leftover depth chart would be:

Kyrie / (Jrue)
Holiday / Christie
Klay / Marshall or Martin
AD / PJ / (Marshall or Martin)
Lively / (AD)

That's a very, very solid 8 man rotation if healthy.

Celtics would need to expand the deal because they can't take that much money back. Probably send some 2nds to dump Hardy/Powell on other teams and then try to turn Marshall or Martin into an expiring deal. BOS reduces their tax bill by a good chunk next year and then in the following year they can sort out what to do with Porzingis/Gafford (both would be FAs) and the center position overall while being in great position to reset their luxury tax repeater status.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#117 » by NYG » Thu Feb 20, 2025 2:14 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie



This seems really bad for Dallas, no? I love Jrue and if this was 3 years ago Jrue, okay sure. But I think if Dallas had interest the deal is probably Gafford/Klay as the salary matching and then one can argue if Dallas needs to add this year's pick or something.


Make it...

Daniel Gafford to the Celtics
Klay Thompson and 2025 Mavericks 1st to the Nets
Jrue Holiday and 2025 Celtics 1st to the Mavericks

??

Celtics would save a TON of money and solve a need elsewhere at center.

Nets probably flip Klay to the best offer from a contender and get a mid-1st for taking him on.

Mavericks swap 1st's, but add a nice veteran guard around AD and Kyrie.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#118 » by 165bows » Thu Feb 20, 2025 1:07 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:Because of apron rules, I think DAL needs to send out more than Jrue's salary. I think they're a really, really solid fit for him on the court though. I think them keeping Klay makes more sense though. Part of why Jrue fits there well, IMO, is because they have an older player timeline with Kyrie/Klay/AD so Jrue's age lines up better. I think leaving him out probably alleviates the need to include a pick too which sets them up for another potential addition later.

Gafford
one of Martin/Marshall
Powell (after opt in)
Hardy

Is more outgoing salary than Jrue so it helps DAL with their apron math. They're leftover depth chart would be:

Kyrie / (Jrue)
Holiday / Christie
Klay / Marshall or Martin
AD / PJ / (Marshall or Martin)
Lively / (AD)

That's a very, very solid 8 man rotation if healthy.

Celtics would need to expand the deal because they can't take that much money back. Probably send some 2nds to dump Hardy/Powell on other teams and then try to turn Marshall or Martin into an expiring deal. BOS reduces their tax bill by a good chunk next year and then in the following year they can sort out what to do with Porzingis/Gafford (both would be FAs) and the center position overall while being in great position to reset their luxury tax repeater status.

If (repeating if here) they have to move someone for salary reasons and they decide it’s Jrue I think a Gafford deal is the bare minimum value they get back. Which makes Dallas tough to deal with due to salary and asset lack etc.

Off the top of my head I’d do something like Jrue to Sacramento, DDR and a pick to Utah, Juzang and Sexton to Boston.

Dallas isn’t worth trying to structure a deal with imo.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#119 » by 165bows » Thu Feb 20, 2025 3:28 pm

NYG wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall to any team with a non-tax MLE

--Some team in need of a wing gets a cheap one for free

Daniel Gafford to the Lakers

--Lakers get a center

Max Christie and Rui Hachimura to the Celtics

--Rui new Horford, Christie provides some of what Jrue did

Jrue Holiday to the Mavericks

--Lively/AD/(Martin or Naji)/Jrue/Kyrie



This seems really bad for Dallas, no? I love Jrue and if this was 3 years ago Jrue, okay sure. But I think if Dallas had interest the deal is probably Gafford/Klay as the salary matching and then one can argue if Dallas needs to add this year's pick or something.


Make it...

Daniel Gafford to the Celtics
Klay Thompson and 2025 Mavericks 1st to the Nets
Jrue Holiday and 2025 Celtics 1st to the Mavericks

??

Celtics would save a TON of money and solve a need elsewhere at center.

Nets probably flip Klay to the best offer from a contender and get a mid-1st for taking him on.

Mavericks swap 1st's, but add a nice veteran guard around AD and Kyrie.

Worth noting in all this that the most likely buyer at this point is a group headed by Steve Pagliuca, current biggest non-Grousbeck minority owner. Meaning they very may well cut salary, but this isn't as likely to be some panicked fire sale as people think.

Pagliuca's been a prominent guy there for 20 years, this won't come as some big surprise to him imo the way it was to the public/fans.
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Re: Researching realistic Jrue Holiday Trades 2025 offseason 

Post#120 » by Astaluego » Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:59 am

Jrue to CLIPPERS
Bogdan+Eubanks +2/3 SRP(Boston)to WIZARDS
Smart+DJJ to BOSTON
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