Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[Texas Chuck]

Let me reiterate I am not saying these numbers should be used as gospel for the difference in impact. But just sharing them with Roy out of a spirit of goodwill. They do not represent my personal views in any way. It's simply data for people to do with as they wish. I do not believe trade value can be assigned by plugging numbers into a formula and waiting for it to spit out the correct answer.

And for what its worth, Raptor says something different than what he had when I look:

CJ McCollum last 2 years:
6 Wins above Replacement
4.8 Wins above Replacement

Currry last 2 years

3.1 Wins above Replacement
2.5 Wins above Replacement

Not seeing where CJ has 4x the impact as was previously declared.



RPM:
CJ McCollum 8.42 wins
Seth Curry 4.71 wins

PIPM (LEBRON)
CJ 4.70 wins
Curry 2.50 wins



EPM Wins:

CJ 6.7
Curry 4.6

RAPM (3 year I believe, not wins but just value):
CJ 2.9
Curry 2.1

[Ballerhogger]

If your the sixers and you can get Roco and CJ why woudlnt you? Whats wrong with RoCO , we know what CJ brings but whats wrong with RoCO? 38% From 3 , good defender. What you lose in Curry is will be made up on the defensive end in RoCO...

Both teams make out well here. Both get scoring and defense what more can 76ers ask for ? Its obvious this is the deal to make for both sides.

Forgetting value for a second, on court going from Simmons/Curry to CJ/Roco is a pretty big drop. Ive said it before, but i would much rather have Beasley/Mcdaniels accompanied by a big pick package. I dont think Portland would give say 3 picks/2 swaps with their package but i think Minny would.

Yes simmons better player out of all them . Hes never coming back so this becomes how valuble is scoring and good wing defender for 76ers? They want to win now , I mean they cant expect Thy to carry the load by himself. Roco helps in that regard.

[mademan]

If your the sixers and you can get Roco and CJ why woudlnt you? Whats wrong with RoCO , we know what CJ brings but whats wrong with RoCO? 38% From 3 , good defender. What you lose in Curry is will be made up on the defensive end in RoCO...

Both teams make out well here. Both get scoring and defense what more can 76ers ask for ? Its obvious this is the deal to make for both sides.

Forgetting value for a second, on court going from Simmons/Curry to CJ/Roco is a pretty big drop. Ive said it before, but i would much rather have Beasley/Mcdaniels accompanied by a big pick package. I dont think Portland would give say 3 picks/2 swaps with their package but i think Minny would.

Yes simmons better player out of all them . Hes never coming back so this becomes how valuble is scoring and good wing defender for 76ers? They want to win now , I mean they cant expect Thy to carry the load by himself. Roco helps in that regard.

If youre philly, you cant trade for older, worse players that dont make you a contender and shortens your window even further. If at least you trade for a package headlined by Sexton, you can talk yourself into his youth and scoring potential for the present and future. Problem with the Cavs is Love tho/having a decent salary filler to make the numbers work

[basketballwacko2]

Chuck really likes Curry... I get it, he's a nice shooter and isn't a bad player. But these are entirely different classes of players we're talking about here. RAPTOR has Curry at a net neutral player over the last 3 years while CJ McCollum has been a 9-10 wins added (rate) player in 2 of the last 3 years with a very similar impact profile to Jamal Murray.

Appreciate you helping out, but I can answer for myself.

And as I've repeated ad nauseum. I think CJ is a better player than Seth Curry. but 3/$100M vs 2/$16M isn't something I can ignore when discussing trade value.

I can appreciate teams paying more to acquire CJ than Curry because talent is scarce and if they have the right money to move off then sure give a better asset to get the better player. But I think the difference in value is small for sure.

I'm with you on this.

CJ is sure not worth $31 million a year. Curry at $8 million is the better choice, while CJ will produce more I can't see the price tag.

[Ballerhogger]

Chuck really likes Curry... I get it, he's a nice shooter and isn't a bad player. But these are entirely different classes of players we're talking about here. RAPTOR has Curry at a net neutral player over the last 3 years while CJ McCollum has been a 9-10 wins added (rate) player in 2 of the last 3 years with a very similar impact profile to Jamal Murray.

Appreciate you helping out, but I can answer for myself.

And as I've repeated ad nauseum. I think CJ is a better player than Seth Curry. but 3/$100M vs 2/$16M isn't something I can ignore when discussing trade value.

I can appreciate teams paying more to acquire CJ than Curry because talent is scarce and if they have the right money to move off then sure give a better asset to get the better player. But I think the difference in value is small for sure.

I'm with you on this.

CJ is sure not worth $31 million a year. Curry at $8 million is the better choice, while CJ will produce more I can't see the price tag.

if the idea is to win this year that’s kinda besides the point isn’t it ?

[Ballerhogger]

Forgetting value for a second, on court going from Simmons/Curry to CJ/Roco is a pretty big drop. Ive said it before, but i would much rather have Beasley/Mcdaniels accompanied by a big pick package. I dont think Portland would give say 3 picks/2 swaps with their package but i think Minny would.

Yes simmons better player out of all them . Hes never coming back so this becomes how valuble is scoring and good wing defender for 76ers? They want to win now , I mean they cant expect Thy to carry the load by himself. Roco helps in that regard.

If youre philly, you cant trade for older, worse players that dont make you a contender and shortens your window even further. If at least you trade for a package headlined by Sexton, you can talk yourself into his youth and scoring potential for the present and future. Problem with the Cavs is Love tho/having a decent salary filler to make the numbers work

So Convington wouldn’t be useful guarding 3-4? Like Giannis , KD etc

[OutsidetheNBA]

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Sexton, Wiggins, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds)

Returns a young scorer and a solid defense-first wing. Sixers would have a solid line-up and ammunition to swing a Beal/Lillard type deal at the deadline. If they don't move pieces for a larger deal, they could move Curry or Shake + the Cavs pick for a substantial upgrade somewhere else.

Cavs Out: Sexton, Cedi Osman, Rubio, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds), 4 2nds (Including Hou 2022)
Cavs In: Simmons

Cavs bring in Simmons to add to Okoro and Garland and stay under the tax. They pay in picks, but it jumpstarts their rebuild.

Warriors Out: Wiggins, Mulder
Warriors In: Osman, Rubio, Kenrich Williams, 2 2nds

Warriors move out Wiggins who has lost value because he can't play home games. Replace him with Osman, who, if he returns to form, will be a valuable wing. Rubio adopts the Livingston role. Kenrich Williams fills in as a low-usage starter until Klay Thompson returns. Warriors also save $5.5 million, which is a lot of tax savings.

OKC Out: Kenrich Williams
OKC In: Mulder, 2 2nds (including Hou 2022)

OKC gets two good seconds and takes a flyer on Mulder. Good return for a decent wing who probably isn't in their long-term plans.

[jbk1234]

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Sexton, Wiggins, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds)

Returns a young scorer and a solid defense-first wing. Sixers would have a solid line-up and ammunition to swing a Beal/Lillard type deal at the deadline. If they don't move pieces for a larger deal, they could move Curry or Shake + the Cavs pick for a substantial upgrade somewhere else.

Cavs Out: Sexton, Cedi Osman, Rubio, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds), 4 2nds (Including Hou 2022)
Cavs In: Simmons

Cavs bring in Simmons to add to Okoro and Garland and stay under the tax. They pay in picks, but it jumpstarts their rebuild.

Warriors Out: Wiggins, Mulder
Warriors In: Osman, Rubio, Kenrich Williams, 2 2nds

Warriors move out Wiggins who has lost value because he can't play home games. Replace him with Osman, who, if he returns to form, will be a valuable wing. Rubio adopts the Livingston role. Kenrich Williams fills in as a low-usage starter until Klay Thompson returns. Warriors also save $5.5 million, which is a lot of tax savings.

OKC Out: Kenrich Williams
OKC In: Mulder, 2 2nds (including Hou 2022)

OKC gets two good seconds and takes a flyer on Mulder. Good return for a decent wing who probably isn't in their long-term plans.

I think GS gets cut out here pretty easily. If OKC is getting 2 2nds, it's for eating Cedi.

[basketballwacko2]

Appreciate you helping out, but I can answer for myself.

And as I've repeated ad nauseum. I think CJ is a better player than Seth Curry. but 3/$100M vs 2/$16M isn't something I can ignore when discussing trade value.

I can appreciate teams paying more to acquire CJ than Curry because talent is scarce and if they have the right money to move off then sure give a better asset to get the better player. But I think the difference in value is small for sure.

I'm with you on this.

CJ is sure not worth $31 million a year. Curry at $8 million is the better choice, while CJ will produce more I can't see the price tag.

if the idea is to win this year that’s kinda besides the point isn’t it ?

Who is trying to win this year? Philly? If CJ is the guy who puts your team over the top then great, but spending that much on him will hamstring you on what you're paying other players. I just don't see him as a guy who is going to make a team great. If it's Philly and the deal is Covington and CJ and draft picks, for Simmons and Curry. Will that make the 76ers a championship team?
If that's the best they can do in a trade for Ben then so be it. They are not getting full value for him, but I've said before that it's hard for me to value Ben even if he wasn't demanding a trade.

[Wolveswin]

I still think this is the best deal for Philly:

To OKC: McDaniels

To Wolves: Simmons + Reed + Joe

To 76ers (now below cap): Beasley + Beverley + K. Williams + 2025 Philly 1st (returned) + Another OKC owed 1st…

…now let’s see how desperate Wolves are to get Simmons:
2022 Wolves 1st (unprotected or top 1 protected)
2023 Wolves Swap (unprotected)
2024 Wolves 1st (top 4 protected)
2025 Wolves 1st Swap (unprotected)

Yes, consider McCollum a better player than Beasley, but not by much. Considering 76ers direction, Beasley should be more valuable. Why? They are not pigeonholed with Embiid | Harris | McCollum lineup.

Morey puts NBA vets who might want to play with Embiid in East on notice. He has to trade all of 76ers 1sts, all the 1sts from Wolves trade, plus youth and multitude of salary filler options, including expiring Beverley. I think that is the best package in the NBA from a winning/playoff team for a Dame or Beal or ???

[OutsidetheNBA]

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Sexton, Wiggins, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds)

Returns a young scorer and a solid defense-first wing. Sixers would have a solid line-up and ammunition to swing a Beal/Lillard type deal at the deadline. If they don't move pieces for a larger deal, they could move Curry or Shake + the Cavs pick for a substantial upgrade somewhere else.

Cavs Out: Sexton, Cedi Osman, Rubio, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds), 4 2nds (Including Hou 2022)
Cavs In: Simmons

Cavs bring in Simmons to add to Okoro and Garland and stay under the tax. They pay in picks, but it jumpstarts their rebuild.

Warriors Out: Wiggins, Mulder
Warriors In: Osman, Rubio, Kenrich Williams, 2 2nds

Warriors move out Wiggins who has lost value because he can't play home games. Replace him with Osman, who, if he returns to form, will be a valuable wing. Rubio adopts the Livingston role. Kenrich Williams fills in as a low-usage starter until Klay Thompson returns. Warriors also save $5.5 million, which is a lot of tax savings.

OKC Out: Kenrich Williams
OKC In: Mulder, 2 2nds (including Hou 2022)

OKC gets two good seconds and takes a flyer on Mulder. Good return for a decent wing who probably isn't in their long-term plans.

I think GS gets cut out here pretty easily. If OKC is getting 2 2nds, it's for eating Cedi.

I've seen your take on Wiggins's value on other threads and respect your opinion, but I think his value is still about the same for teams outside of SF/NY -- he's a solid, but overpaid player on a bad contract. He'll replace some of Simmons's defense and the 76ers will hope he shoots 38% from 3 again. I imagine he'll be pretty valuable next year as an expiring.

As for vaccination status, I'm sure teams will talk a lot, but I doubt they'll actually care as long as the player can play in home games.

[jbk1234]

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Sexton, Wiggins, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds)

Returns a young scorer and a solid defense-first wing. Sixers would have a solid line-up and ammunition to swing a Beal/Lillard type deal at the deadline. If they don't move pieces for a larger deal, they could move Curry or Shake + the Cavs pick for a substantial upgrade somewhere else.

Cavs Out: Sexton, Cedi Osman, Rubio, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds), 4 2nds (Including Hou 2022)
Cavs In: Simmons

Cavs bring in Simmons to add to Okoro and Garland and stay under the tax. They pay in picks, but it jumpstarts their rebuild.

Warriors Out: Wiggins, Mulder
Warriors In: Osman, Rubio, Kenrich Williams, 2 2nds

Warriors move out Wiggins who has lost value because he can't play home games. Replace him with Osman, who, if he returns to form, will be a valuable wing. Rubio adopts the Livingston role. Kenrich Williams fills in as a low-usage starter until Klay Thompson returns. Warriors also save $5.5 million, which is a lot of tax savings.

OKC Out: Kenrich Williams
OKC In: Mulder, 2 2nds (including Hou 2022)

OKC gets two good seconds and takes a flyer on Mulder. Good return for a decent wing who probably isn't in their long-term plans.

I think GS gets cut out here pretty easily. If OKC is getting 2 2nds, it's for eating Cedi.

I've seen your take on Wiggins's value on other threads and respect your opinion, but I think his value is still about the same for teams outside of SF/NY -- he's a solid, but overpaid player on a bad contract. He'll replace some of Simmons's defense and the 76ers will hope he shoots 38% from 3 again. I imagine he'll be pretty valuable next year as an expiring.

As for vaccination status, I'm sure teams will talk a lot, but I doubt they'll actually care as long as the player can play in home games.

I think the Sixers take Rubio over Wiggins even if Wiggins is vaccinated.

[SO_MONEY]

I still think this is the best deal for Philly:

To OKC: McDaniels

To Wolves: Simmons + Reed + Joe

To 76ers (now below cap): Beasley + Beverley + K. Williams + 2025 Philly 1st (returned) + Another OKC owed 1st…

…now let’s see how desperate Wolves are to get Simmons:
2022 Wolves 1st (unprotected or top 1 protected)
2023 Wolves Swap (unprotected)
2024 Wolves 1st (top 4 protected)
2025 Wolves 1st Swap (unprotected)

Yes, consider McCollum a better player than Beasley, but not by much. Considering 76ers direction, Beasley should be more valuable. Why? They are not pigeonholed with Embiid | Harris | McCollum lineup.

Morey puts NBA vets who might want to play with Embiid in East on notice. He has to trade all of 76ers 1sts, all the 1sts from Wolves trade, plus youth and multitude of salary filler options, including expiring Beverley. I think that is the best package in the NBA from a winning/playoff team for a Dame or Beal or ???

I don't like it.

[SO_MONEY]

I still think this is the best deal for Philly:

To OKC: McDaniels

To Wolves: Simmons + Reed + Joe

To 76ers (now below cap): Beasley + Beverley + K. Williams + 2025 Philly 1st (returned) + Another OKC owed 1st…

…now let’s see how desperate Wolves are to get Simmons:
2022 Wolves 1st (unprotected or top 1 protected)
2023 Wolves Swap (unprotected)
2024 Wolves 1st (top 4 protected)
2025 Wolves 1st Swap (unprotected)

Yes, consider McCollum a better player than Beasley, but not by much. Considering 76ers direction, Beasley should be more valuable. Why? They are not pigeonholed with Embiid | Harris | McCollum lineup.

Morey puts NBA vets who might want to play with Embiid in East on notice. He has to trade all of 76ers 1sts, all the 1sts from Wolves trade, plus youth and multitude of salary filler options, including expiring Beverley. I think that is the best package in the NBA from a winning/playoff team for a Dame or Beal or ???

I don't like it. Too rich for my blood.

[drosestruts]

Solve everyone's problems all at once:

Philadelphia in: De'Aaron Fox and Andrew Wiggins
Philadelphia out: Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris

Sacramento in: Ben Simmons
Sacramenot out: De'Aaron Fox

Golden State in: Kristaps Prozingis
Golden State out: Andrew Wiggins

Dallas in: Tobias Harris
Dallas out: Kristaps Prozingis


76ers:

Fox/Curry
Green/Korkmaz/Maxxey/Milton
Wiggins/Thybulle
Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond

Fox is a good player and is locked in for 5 years. I'm not convinced that the longer they wait the better the package they'll receive. Fox's speed and slashing brings a whole new dimension to the team. Wiggins is turning into a meme but he's still a guy you can count on, ironically, health-wise to play most games and score in the high teens. His contract is also shorter than Tobias' outgoing deal.


Sacramento:

Mitchell/Ramsey
Haliburton/Hield/Davis
Barnes/Harkless
Simmons/Bagley
Holmes/Thompson/Len

Solves their glut of smaller player and moves their primary playmaker into a forward spot and gets 1st team defense with it too.


Golden State:

Curry/Poole
Thompson/Moody
Porter/Kuminga/TCA
Green/Igoudala/Bjelica
Prozingis/Wiseman/Looney

Wiggins isn't allowed to play in San Francisco, they get a player who can, and who can provide them something different at the center spot.


Dallas:

Luka/Brunson/Burke/Terry
Hardaway/Green
Finney-Smith/Bullock/
Harris/Kleber
Powell/Cauley-Stein/Brown

Tobias is a good locker-room guy, glue guy on the court, and good scorer. He'll just make life easier in Dallas for everyone.


Everyone's happy-ish. Happier than they were now at least. The world's not perfect.

[aguiar95]

I still think this is the best deal for Philly:

To OKC: McDaniels

To Wolves: Simmons + Reed + Joe

To 76ers (now below cap): Beasley + Beverley + K. Williams + 2025 Philly 1st (returned) + Another OKC owed 1st…

OKC giving 2 1sts + Williams for McDaniels feels way too high. I think they pass.

[Texas Chuck]

Not touching Simmons/Fox.

But I have Tobias more valuable than KP and Wiggins. And I have KP's extra year pretty unattractive for GSW not to mention that giant sucking sound that is their current wing rotation.

I'd love to flip the maybe of KP into the stability of Tobias, but do not believe Dallas should be able to do so for free and even if Dallas makes up the value, I don't like the downgrade in talent and fit for Philly--who is their PF now? And don't like the fit, the injury risk, and the money for GSW.

[OutsidetheNBA]

Sacramento in: Ben Simmons
Sacramenot out: De'Aaron Fox

Golden State in: Kristaps Prozingis
Golden State out: Andrew Wiggins

I think if the Kings were willing to move Fox for Simmons, the trade would have already happened. Fox is more valuable than Simmons imo, and if the Kings want to re-balance by moving out some of their smaller players, it wouldn't be that hard.

Understand the impulse to move Wiggins, but don't think KP fits. KP is injury prone and doesn't set good screens. Draymond's best position in the playoffs is at Center. Looney is a fine in the regular season. I think the Warriors would move Wiggins, but only for a star wing or a combo of wings+.

[Texas Chuck]

KP is injury prone and doesn't set good screens.

KP/Luka PNR was actually best in the league level elite. Obviously the bulk of that credit goes to Luka and some more to the spacing Rick ensured existed through his rotations and schemes, but I think its fair to say KP is plenty effective enough as a screener. A Curry/KP PNR is a problem.

The issues with KP are plentiful, but in a PNR league, he's very much a positive as the screener.

[mademan]

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Sexton, Wiggins, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds)

Returns a young scorer and a solid defense-first wing. Sixers would have a solid line-up and ammunition to swing a Beal/Lillard type deal at the deadline. If they don't move pieces for a larger deal, they could move Curry or Shake + the Cavs pick for a substantial upgrade somewhere else.

Cavs Out: Sexton, Cedi Osman, Rubio, Cavs 2022 1st (Top 7, Top 5, Top 3, 2 2nds), 4 2nds (Including Hou 2022)
Cavs In: Simmons

Cavs bring in Simmons to add to Okoro and Garland and stay under the tax. They pay in picks, but it jumpstarts their rebuild.

Warriors Out: Wiggins, Mulder
Warriors In: Osman, Rubio, Kenrich Williams, 2 2nds

Warriors move out Wiggins who has lost value because he can't play home games. Replace him with Osman, who, if he returns to form, will be a valuable wing. Rubio adopts the Livingston role. Kenrich Williams fills in as a low-usage starter until Klay Thompson returns. Warriors also save $5.5 million, which is a lot of tax savings.

OKC Out: Kenrich Williams
OKC In: Mulder, 2 2nds (including Hou 2022)

OKC gets two good seconds and takes a flyer on Mulder. Good return for a decent wing who probably isn't in their long-term plans.

I think GS gets cut out here pretty easily. If OKC is getting 2 2nds, it's for eating Cedi.

I've seen your take on Wiggins's value on other threads and respect your opinion, but I think his value is still about the same for teams outside of SF/NY -- he's a solid, but overpaid player on a bad contract. He'll replace some of Simmons's defense and the 76ers will hope he shoots 38% from 3 again. I imagine he'll be pretty valuable next year as an expiring.

As for vaccination status, I'm sure teams will talk a lot, but I doubt they'll actually care as long as the player can play in home games.

No team is gonna take wiggins knowing that state vaccination rules can change at any time. It’s too big of a risk for a player who’s just not worth it. Until he gets the vaccination, nobody is gonna pay anything more than an equally bad contract for a player they’re not playing, and even then, they probably won’t. Like would cavs give up love for him? I’m really not sure