Rumors, Random Thoughts, and non-Threadworthy Posts 18.0 Dave Cowens drove a taxi

[Yenrallik1111]

I am kind of surprised something around KD for AR has not been tossed around. Finally pairing LeBron and KD, in their twilight but still could be interesting with Luka leading the team.

AR is definitely not a good fit with the suns so it would have to be a 3 team. I just have no idea what that would look like. Anyone want to take a shot?

[daoneandonly]

Not even a plausible or realistic trade, but that why I'm posting it on this random thread

Atlanta gets: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving
Dallas gets: Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Terrance Mann, OO

Atlanta goes all in while keeping the dynamic forward duo of JJ and Rischaser. Dallas pivots and somehow ends up with Trae after all these years. Daniels/Flagg/PJ/Lively is as good as a defensive lineup you could put around Trae.

[Texas Chuck]

I am kind of surprised something around KD for AR has not been tossed around. Finally pairing LeBron and KD, in their twilight but still could be interesting with Luka leading the team.

AR is definitely not a good fit with the suns so it would have to be a 3 team. I just have no idea what that would look like. Anyone want to take a shot?

Heads up I stuck this here. If you have a more concrete idea with ideas for why all parties should do it, by all means start a thread, but as is looks perfect for this thread.

[Godaddycurse]

Not even a plausible or realistic trade, but that why I'm posting it on this random thread

Atlanta gets: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving
Dallas gets: Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Terrance Mann, OO

Atlanta goes all in while keeping the dynamic forward duo of JJ and Rischaser. Dallas pivots and somehow ends up with Trae after all these years. Daniels/Flagg/PJ/Lively is as good as a defensive lineup you could put around Trae.

If atlanta is going all in they would be keeping Trae. Irving is too risky to bet on both health and contract wise

[ReggiesKnicks]

Not even a plausible or realistic trade, but that why I'm posting it on this random thread

Atlanta gets: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving
Dallas gets: Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Terrance Mann, OO

Atlanta goes all in while keeping the dynamic forward duo of JJ and Rischaser. Dallas pivots and somehow ends up with Trae after all these years. Daniels/Flagg/PJ/Lively is as good as a defensive lineup you could put around Trae.

Atlanta goes all in by trading 3 of their 4 best players and their best player?

[Texas Chuck]

Not even a plausible or realistic trade, but that why I'm posting it on this random thread

Atlanta gets: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving
Dallas gets: Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Terrance Mann, OO

Atlanta goes all in while keeping the dynamic forward duo of JJ and Rischaser. Dallas pivots and somehow ends up with Trae after all these years. Daniels/Flagg/PJ/Lively is as good as a defensive lineup you could put around Trae.

If atlanta is going all in they would be keeping Trae. Irving is too risky to bet on both health and contract wise

Agreed and then the return for AD is really bad. I know daone wants him dumped at all costs, but this would be really really bad.

[daoneandonly]

Not even a plausible or realistic trade, but that why I'm posting it on this random thread

Atlanta gets: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving
Dallas gets: Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Terrance Mann, OO

Atlanta goes all in while keeping the dynamic forward duo of JJ and Rischaser. Dallas pivots and somehow ends up with Trae after all these years. Daniels/Flagg/PJ/Lively is as good as a defensive lineup you could put around Trae.

If atlanta is going all in they would be keeping Trae. Irving is too risky to bet on both health and contract wise

DOnt disagree, just like getting rid of AD and the storyline of trading the guy you got for Luka for Trae

[SkyHook]

In evaluating players in trade proposals, how much stock do you put in their BBREF on/off numbers? I've never paid them much attention, in large part because BBREF's O- and D-ratings haven't been reliable (historically deviating from those on NBA.com, more in some years and less in others), but also because I see them as the metric most influenced by context and, consequently, among the least useful. I've had a few recent conversations where other posters have been major proponents of on/off in their assessments, assigning a great deal of weight in their evaluations. I'm curious to know what others think.

I hate it personally . Most misused stat imo. Stat only value is comparing players with similar roles on the court.

People would call somebody with somebody with a +0.5 a net positive say -0.5 is a net negative . When reality , they both neutral. Most people lack understanding of standard error and standard deviations to have a reasonable plus / minus debate with them.

The coefficients are another problem. They reactionary instead of predicting. Like is a guard getting a block really equal to a center getting 7 blocks?

I'm not even sure that it has value there. I had someone make the argument that Walker Kessler wasn't all that good on defense, despite overwhelmingly elite defensive metrics, because his defensive on/off number +0.8 was relatively pedestrian compared to Wemby's +7.6. Do you know who has remarkably similar defensive on/off numbers to Wemby (+7.2) and better net on/off numbers than him overall (6th highest in the league when filtering out small sample sizes, <250min played)?

Spoiler:

John Collins. Now I may be higher on JC than the consensus of this board, but I'm not crazy enough to suggest that he's a significantly better defender than Kessler and nearly on par with Wemby.

[zimpy27]

Salary matching gets trickier(though not totally impossible), but Dallas could up this offer by including Lively instead of Gafford. Might still not be the best offer particularly if the reports of wanting a 25 1st round pick are super important to the Suns, but its a starting PF, two other good rotation guys and a 3rd year center who had a great playoff run already along with the unprotected first. It's a pretty strong offer for KD. And if they really wanted that first PJ or Lively could almost certainly be converted to one, though maybe not as high as 10.

Would need to be Lively for Richards swap on top of Klay, PJ, Gafford, Martin. To make salary work.

No, and Dallas probably should back out at that point. Dallas can bring in other matching: Hardy, Powell, Marshall. But giving up both centers makes adding KD less appealing. And now Dallas' offer is really starting to be the strongest with that much win now help plus two strong future assets.

Well Lively+Naji instead of Gafford isn't enough salary out anymore. So if you want to include Lively over Gafford then you have to send out 2 other salaries. Just seems like a lot of player movement to be realistic

[daoneandonly]

Not even a plausible or realistic trade, but that why I'm posting it on this random thread

Atlanta gets: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving
Dallas gets: Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Terrance Mann, OO

Atlanta goes all in while keeping the dynamic forward duo of JJ and Rischaser. Dallas pivots and somehow ends up with Trae after all these years. Daniels/Flagg/PJ/Lively is as good as a defensive lineup you could put around Trae.

If atlanta is going all in they would be keeping Trae. Irving is too risky to bet on both health and contract wise

Agreed and then the return for AD is really bad. I know daone wants him dumped at all costs, but this would be really really bad.

Yea I wouldnt do it for the Mavs, just wanted to engage in some convo. If Cle would do Mobley/Strus/Okoro for AD/Hardy that's a deal I'd love, but the Cavs wont. I'd still ask Detroit if they were interested, but we wont.

[zimpy27]

If atlanta is going all in they would be keeping Trae. Irving is too risky to bet on both health and contract wise

Agreed and then the return for AD is really bad. I know daone wants him dumped at all costs, but this would be really really bad.

Yea I wouldnt do it for the Mavs, just wanted to engage in some convo. If Cle would do Mobley/Strus/Okoro for AD/Hardy that's a deal I'd love, but the Cavs wont. I'd still ask Detroit if they were interested, but we wont.

I think Davis for Tatum is interesting for both teams.

Celtics reopen the window, Mavs have a poor 25-26 season before being strong in 26-27

[Texas Chuck]

Well Lively+Naji instead of Gafford isn't enough salary out anymore. So if you want to include Lively over Gafford then you have to send out 2 other salaries. Just seems like a lot of player movement to be realistic

No doubt its an ugly mess and hard for Dallas to avoid the 2nd apron, was just trying to point out a way for Dallas to up their offer. But not at all likely I agree.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

I am kind of surprised something around KD for AR has not been tossed around. Finally pairing LeBron and KD, in their twilight but still could be interesting with Luka leading the team.

AR is definitely not a good fit with the suns so it would have to be a 3 team. I just have no idea what that would look like. Anyone want to take a shot?

Money the problem. Lakers have to move ugly money to match and still provide incentives.

Before Bane deal, I thought Reaves and Suggs could had been an interesting back court. Pistons maybe. Hard to get value when Reaves is expiring

[Texas Chuck]

Agreed and then the return for AD is really bad. I know daone wants him dumped at all costs, but this would be really really bad.

Yea I wouldnt do it for the Mavs, just wanted to engage in some convo. If Cle would do Mobley/Strus/Okoro for AD/Hardy that's a deal I'd love, but the Cavs wont. I'd still ask Detroit if they were interested, but we wont.

I think Davis for Tatum is interesting for both teams.

Celtics reopen the window, Mavs have a poor 25-26 season before being strong in 26-27

Boston never does this unless they thought Tatum would never be the same, at which point Dallas probably passes. But I can't imagine Boston moving Tatum for AD.

[daoneandonly]

Agreed and then the return for AD is really bad. I know daone wants him dumped at all costs, but this would be really really bad.

Yea I wouldnt do it for the Mavs, just wanted to engage in some convo. If Cle would do Mobley/Strus/Okoro for AD/Hardy that's a deal I'd love, but the Cavs wont. I'd still ask Detroit if they were interested, but we wont.

I think Davis for Tatum is interesting for both teams.

Celtics reopen the window, Mavs have a poor 25-26 season before being strong in 26-27

I was actually thinking about that literally minutes before Tatum went down with the injury. Not to mention Tatum is Flagg's fave player.

[Klomp]

Yeah. It would be a big risk for a team to trade for KD if he doesn’t want to end up there. But the upside is there if the price is something they’re comfortable with.

Just don’t think the final price will be cheap enough to stay in that comfort zone.

I actually thought KD would want to go to Minn based off what looks like a good relationship with Ant and the rest of the talent they can keep. So a bit surprised.

I think this is the most interesting piece of the whole Kevin Durant discussion.

I absolutely agree, Minnesota shouldn't be able to outbid any of those teams, especially since we aren't supposedly on his "preferred" list. But I don't think his "preferred" teams are offering much at all, at least not much that a Phoenix team is interested in.

[penbeast0]

I think Davis for Tatum is interesting for both teams.

Celtics reopen the window, Mavs have a poor 25-26 season before being strong in 26-27

Oooh, I actually like this. Bad optics, Luka for injured Tatum but interesting.

[jayjaysee]

Agreed and then the return for AD is really bad. I know daone wants him dumped at all costs, but this would be really really bad.

Yea I wouldnt do it for the Mavs, just wanted to engage in some convo. If Cle would do Mobley/Strus/Okoro for AD/Hardy that's a deal I'd love, but the Cavs wont. I'd still ask Detroit if they were interested, but we wont.

I think Davis for Tatum is interesting for both teams.

Celtics reopen the window, Mavs have a poor 25-26 season before being strong in 26-27

Boston would be a lot better off tanking a year imo.

But sign me up for Dallas.

Lively/Tatum/Flagg/Peterson/Kyrie is fun to picture..

[zimpy27]

Yea I wouldnt do it for the Mavs, just wanted to engage in some convo. If Cle would do Mobley/Strus/Okoro for AD/Hardy that's a deal I'd love, but the Cavs wont. I'd still ask Detroit if they were interested, but we wont.

I think Davis for Tatum is interesting for both teams.

Celtics reopen the window, Mavs have a poor 25-26 season before being strong in 26-27

Boston never does this unless they thought Tatum would never be the same, at which point Dallas probably passes. But I can't imagine Boston moving Tatum for AD.

Tatum won't be the same. We have a lot of evidence to suggest that he will be lesser. He should still be decent though.

Davis is on par with Tatum pre-injury but he's 5 years older. Maybe it takes Davis and an FRP or 2. But I think the deal is solid for both teams.

Jrue, White, Brown, Davis, KP
PP, Hauser, Horford, Kornet

[Klomp]

I'm debating the logistics of a massive framework that would include Phoenix (Durant), Memphis (Jackson), Minnesota (Randle, DiVincenzo), and possibly an extra team or two.