Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Laimbeer]

Credit - Sam Quinn

Cavs: Simmons
Sixers: Sexton, Wood
Rockets: Okoro, Horton-Tucker, CLE 2022 FRP (Top 5 protected)
Lakers: Curry

[Brick Layer]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Golden State Warriors trade:
Andrew Wiggins
Jonathan Kuminga
Moses Moody
2022 1st

Golden State:
Stephen Curry / Jordan Poole / Mychal Mulder
Seth Curry / Juan Toscano-Anderson / Gary Payton II
Klay Thompson / Otto Porter Jr. / Damion Lee
Ben Simmons / Nemanja Bjelica / Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green / James Wiseman / Kevon Looney

Philadelphia:
Tyrese Maxey / Shake Milton
Andrew Wiggins / Moses Moody / Jaden Springer
Matisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
Tobias Harris / Jonathan Kuminga / George Niang
Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond

Seth Curry has been crystal clear about not wanting to play on the same team as his brother and GSW obviously has no interest in trading for Ben Simmons as long as Draymond Green is on their roster especially at the cost of Kuminga, Moody and a 2022 FRP.

[JimmyPlopper]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Golden State Warriors trade:
Andrew Wiggins
Jonathan Kuminga
Moses Moody
2022 1st

Golden State:
Stephen Curry / Jordan Poole / Mychal Mulder
Seth Curry / Juan Toscano-Anderson / Gary Payton II
Klay Thompson / Otto Porter Jr. / Damion Lee
Ben Simmons / Nemanja Bjelica / Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green / James Wiseman / Kevon Looney

Philadelphia:
Tyrese Maxey / Shake Milton
Andrew Wiggins / Moses Moody / Jaden Springer
Matisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
Tobias Harris / Jonathan Kuminga / George Niang
Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond

Seth Curry has been crystal clear about not wanting to play on the same team as his brother and GSW obviously has no interest in trading for Ben Simmons as long as Draymond Green is on their roster especially at the cost of Kuminga, Moody and a 2022 FRP.

The second point aside - I am curious about the first point. Seth really said that? I can't imagine saying I won't play with my brother. Unless it's about being in his shadow kind of thing. Having his own identity. Not to be "sonned" by big bro

[zimpy27]

Portland do well here, Raptors do ok, 6ers i'm not sold on (though the fit is decent)

I gave a good future pick from Portland but might need another. The value of those picks IMO is that if Portland does want to rebuild and move on from Dame then they will want their picks back.

Pretty sure we take simmons for ourselves and cut out Portland

Simmons+Milton for FVV+Dragic+TOR23FRP+TOR25FRP?

Would that fit the Raptors? Who would be your perimeter half-court scorer/playmaker?

Simmons, Trent, OG, Siakam, Boucher -- Flynn, Milton, Barnes, Achiuwa

[kuclas]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Considering towns Simmons and Edward’s ages and contract length under Timberwolves control.

Highly doubtful those future draft picks mean much.

Everyone harkens back to the Brooklyn nets pierce Kg trades.

Teams aren’t stupid anymore.

Even the clippers offering the world to okc. Now with Leonard and George resigned. How much were those picks worth now to okc ?

[Godaddycurse]

I gave a good future pick from Portland but might need another. The value of those picks IMO is that if Portland does want to rebuild and move on from Dame then they will want their picks back.

Pretty sure we take simmons for ourselves and cut out Portland

Simmons+Milton for FVV+Dragic+TOR23FRP+TOR25FRP?

Would that fit the Raptors? Who would be your perimeter half-court scorer/playmaker?

Simmons, Trent, OG, Siakam, Boucher -- Flynn, Milton, Barnes, Achiuwa

Why did you add an extra 1st? your previous package was just FVV/Dragic/POR 2025 1st

[zimpy27]

What team might want Sabonis? That could be an interesting way for Indy to get Simmons

Toronto? Charlotte?

FVV+LeVert would be a great fit for Philly, starting PG and bench leader.

IND give LeVert+Sabonis+Lamb and get Simmons+Boucher
Brogdon, JHoliday, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, Duarte, Oshae, Boucher, Goga

PHI give Simmons+Milton and get FVV+LeVert
FVV, Maxey, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Curry, Thybulle, LeVert, Reed, Drummond

TOR give FVV+Boucher and get Sabonis+Milton+Lamb
Flynn, Trent, OG, Siakam, Sabonis -- Dragic, Lamb, Milton, Barnes, Achiuwa


I like that fit a lot for all teams

[zimpy27]

Pretty sure we take simmons for ourselves and cut out Portland

Simmons+Milton for FVV+Dragic+TOR23FRP+TOR25FRP?

Would that fit the Raptors? Who would be your perimeter half-court scorer/playmaker?

Simmons, Trent, OG, Siakam, Boucher -- Flynn, Milton, Barnes, Achiuwa

Why did you add an extra 1st? your previous package was just FVV/Dragic/POR 2025 1st

Oh in previous post I said maybe two FRPs are needed. But I'd also value Portland FRPs over Raptor FRPs considering the age and quality of the Raptors core. They aren't likely to be in the lottery for the next decade.

[Helsbyte]

What team might want Sabonis? That could be an interesting way for Indy to get Simmons

Toronto? Charlotte?

FVV+LeVert would be a great fit for Philly, starting PG and bench leader.

IND give LeVert+Sabonis+Lamb and get Simmons+Boucher
Brogdon, JHoliday, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, Duarte, Oshae, Boucher, Goga

PHI give Simmons+Milton and get FVV+LeVert
FVV, Maxey, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Curry, Thybulle, LeVert, Reed, Drummond

TOR give FVV+Boucher and get Sabonis+Milton+Lamb
Flynn, Trent, OG, Siakam, Sabonis -- Dragic, Lamb, Milton, Barnes, Achiuwa


I like that fit a lot for all teams

I got Sabonis worth more than FVV and Boucher by quite a bit. I know we get Simmons but it seems Toronto is stealing value here. Why is Boucher going to Indy?

Does Simmons hold this much more value over Sabonis and Lavert? I don't think so.

[Van_Trump]

Watch on YouTube

4:44 "Pascal Siakam and stuff"

LOL

[Commodor]

I’m pretty sure you’re saying that as a Warriors fan, you wouldn’t do that deal, right?

Oh yeah that offer is not close.

I think GSW offers Wiggins, Kuminga, 2022 1st for Simmons. There will probably be better offers on the table from Sac & MIN but it will come down to how stubborn Simmons is for his preferred destinations.

If you can get Simmons for Wiggens, Kuminga and a super late 1st round pick, you do it for sure. I just dont think Philly bites on that. Wiggens was better last year, but with the contract, he is not a great asset. Kuminga is a recent top 10 pick with potential.

But if you are Philly, from my trade I did, do you take Van Vleet 20/6/4 to run point and Bagley (high draft pick with potential) who can slide into the 4 Or do you go Wiggens, who probably wont start unless Tobias plays the 4, Kuminga and late 1st?

Philly is looking for win now players and will need a PG if Simmons is traded. That deal wont get it done unless there is other teams involved. Sacramento has better chance to do deal outright if they include PG Haliburton or Fox as Philly will need a PG in any trade.

Here's a couple issues with your stance:

1. It helps your credibility when you can spell a player's name correctly. Wiggins**

2. If this was last year I would 100% agree that is what Philly... should have... asked for. Morey overplayed his hand and now he is in a position where he not only has to take what the league gives him but there is the shadow of "will Simmons/Klutch make a fuss if it's not his preferred destination". Literally all leverage is lost.

3. I never said the package I offered was what Simmons' worth is. I said that's the max GSW will likely offer (and it seems that may be a stretch from the GSW boards' opinion and FO reports). GSW is bidding against LAL and LAC at this point. That offer is more than either team can offer without sacrificing AD or PG. GSW doesn't have to meet the 6ers' price, they just need to outbid the "Simmons' preferred" market and then wait.

[Sportfan73]

Oh yeah that offer is not close.

I think GSW offers Wiggins, Kuminga, 2022 1st for Simmons. There will probably be better offers on the table from Sac & MIN but it will come down to how stubborn Simmons is for his preferred destinations.

If you can get Simmons for Wiggens, Kuminga and a super late 1st round pick, you do it for sure. I just dont think Philly bites on that. Wiggens was better last year, but with the contract, he is not a great asset. Kuminga is a recent top 10 pick with potential.

But if you are Philly, from my trade I did, do you take Van Vleet 20/6/4 to run point and Bagley (high draft pick with potential) who can slide into the 4 Or do you go Wiggens, who probably wont start unless Tobias plays the 4, Kuminga and late 1st?

Philly is looking for win now players and will need a PG if Simmons is traded. That deal wont get it done unless there is other teams involved. Sacramento has better chance to do deal outright if they include PG Haliburton or Fox as Philly will need a PG in any trade.

Here's a couple issues with your stance:

1. It helps your credibility when you can spell a player's name correctly. Wiggins**

2. If this was last year I would 100% agree that is what Philly... should have... asked for. Morey overplayed his hand and now he is in a position where he not only has to take what the league gives him but there is the shadow of "will Simmons/Klutch make a fuss if it's not his preferred destination". Literally all leverage is lost.

3. I never said the package I offered was what Simmons' worth is. I said that's the max GSW will likely offer (and it seems that may be a stretch from the GSW boards' opinion and FO reports). GSW is bidding against LAL and LAC at this point. That offer is more than either team can offer without sacrificing AD or PG. GSW doesn't have to meet the 6ers' price, they just need to outbid the "Simmons' preferred" market and then wait.

They are 100 percent not bidding against those teams. That report was already confirmed as false

[zimpy27]

Toronto? Charlotte?

FVV+LeVert would be a great fit for Philly, starting PG and bench leader.

IND give LeVert+Sabonis+Lamb and get Simmons+Boucher
Brogdon, JHoliday, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, Duarte, Oshae, Boucher, Goga

PHI give Simmons+Milton and get FVV+LeVert
FVV, Maxey, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Curry, Thybulle, LeVert, Reed, Drummond

TOR give FVV+Boucher and get Sabonis+Milton+Lamb
Flynn, Trent, OG, Siakam, Sabonis -- Dragic, Lamb, Milton, Barnes, Achiuwa


I like that fit a lot for all teams

I got Sabonis worth more than FVV and Boucher by quite a bit. I know we get Simmons but it seems Toronto is stealing value here. Why is Boucher going to Indy?

Does Simmons hold this much more value over Sabonis and Lavert? I don't think so.

I feel Indy needs a couple true PFs in Simmons and Boucher, both fit really well with Indy.

It sounds like you want a Raptors FRP to go to Indy?

[Brick Layer]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Golden State Warriors trade:
Andrew Wiggins
Jonathan Kuminga
Moses Moody
2022 1st

Golden State:
Stephen Curry / Jordan Poole / Mychal Mulder
Seth Curry / Juan Toscano-Anderson / Gary Payton II
Klay Thompson / Otto Porter Jr. / Damion Lee
Ben Simmons / Nemanja Bjelica / Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green / James Wiseman / Kevon Looney

Philadelphia:
Tyrese Maxey / Shake Milton
Andrew Wiggins / Moses Moody / Jaden Springer
Matisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
Tobias Harris / Jonathan Kuminga / George Niang
Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond

Seth Curry has been crystal clear about not wanting to play on the same team as his brother and GSW obviously has no interest in trading for Ben Simmons as long as Draymond Green is on their roster especially at the cost of Kuminga, Moody and a 2022 FRP.

The second point aside - I am curious about the first point. Seth really said that? I can't imagine saying I won't play with my brother. Unless it's about being in his shadow kind of thing. Having his own identity. Not to be "sonned" by big bro

The Warriors wanted to extend Seth Curry on a multi year deal but he said no because he did not want anyone to ever say he was on the Warriors roster only because he was Steph's brother. Seth wanted to prove he was a NBA player and he has succeeded.

[MKWB]

PDX TRADES - CJ McCollum, CJ Elleby, 2024 FRP, 2026 FRP
PDX RECEIVES - Ben Simmons

PHI TRADES - Ben Simmons, Tyrese Maxey
PHI RECEIVES - CJ McCollum, Dejounte Murray

SAS TRADES - Dejounte Murray
SAS RECEIVES - Tyrese Maxey, CJ Elleby, 2024 FRP, 2026 FRP

PDX also sends 1.7M to SAS to cover the Elleby cut.

PHI ROTATION
G - Dejounte Murray / Seth Curry / Jaden Springer
G - CJ McCollum / Shake Milton / Furkan Korkmaz
F - Danny Green / Mattisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
F - Tobias Harris / Georges Niang / Paul Reed
C - Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond / Charles Bassey

Who is Murray's agent? Oh... it's also Rich Paul. That could throw a wrench into things.

And do the Blazers really take in Simmons as Rich Paul and LBJ"s trojan horse? No secret that LeBron would like to play with Dame, or get him to a different market. Would Blazers front office really give up so much value to let the Rich Paul circus hijack their team and/or star player?

Same goes for any team interested in trading for Simmons or any high-profile Rich Paul client. The team has to ask-- "Is this worth having my organization infiltrated by the snakes?"

[vetmin]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Golden State Warriors trade:
Andrew Wiggins
Jonathan Kuminga
Moses Moody
2022 1st

Golden State:
Stephen Curry / Jordan Poole / Mychal Mulder
Seth Curry / Juan Toscano-Anderson / Gary Payton II
Klay Thompson / Otto Porter Jr. / Damion Lee
Ben Simmons / Nemanja Bjelica / Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green / James Wiseman / Kevon Looney

Philadelphia:
Tyrese Maxey / Shake Milton
Andrew Wiggins / Moses Moody / Jaden Springer
Matisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
Tobias Harris / Jonathan Kuminga / George Niang
Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond

Seth Curry has been crystal clear about not wanting to play on the same team as his brother and GSW obviously has no interest in trading for Ben Simmons as long as Draymond Green is on their roster especially at the cost of Kuminga, Moody and a 2022 FRP.

It’s fair to disagree on the appropriate trade price for Ben, but Seth Curry’s personal preferences would never hold up a deal like this.

[vetmin]

I think people are focusing on getting win-now pieces in this deal, I don’t think that’s 100% their focus. They would like some win-now pieces but also assets to swap for a star when one becomes available.

If Rosas offered something like Beverley, Beasley, 3 unprotected FRPs, 3 unprotected swaps, Morey would almost have to accept. Bev/Beasley is enough to keep Philly afloat while Morey uses that draft currency to bolster the roster later in the season.

That said, I would not offer that as a Wolves fan.

Agreed. I made a similar point from a Warriors perspective earlier. If Ben is going to sit out or just be a distraction to the team once the season starts, what difference does it make if he’s swapped out for an equivalent asset trove, even if it doesn’t fit short-term? The reason for hanging on to Ben temporarily would be so that you can tread water until the right deal materializes, but if he’s even refusing to paddle then you’d almost be better off with a trove of picks (or Wiseman and/or Kuminga) rather than an asset that’s actively working against you a la Harden in HOU early last season.

[cool93]

3. I never said the package I offered was what Simmons' worth is. I said that's the max GSW will likely offer (and it seems that may be a stretch from the GSW boards' opinion and FO reports). GSW is bidding against LAL and LAC at this point. That offer is more than either team can offer without sacrificing AD or PG. GSW doesn't have to meet the 6ers' price, they just need to outbid the "Simmons' preferred" market and then wait.

There would be no preferred market. He has 4 years on his deal, he won't sit out for that long lol. He'll be traded for the best offer.

And there were report that Simmons is open to be traded to Wolves for example. Are you relying on the report of that writer from San Francisco?

[Wolveswin]

This is the exact reason why I don't see Minny making this happen. Why would Philly trade Simmons for a bunch of picks in the mid to late 20s? They wouldn't. The Kings are the best fit, also Portland depending on how that situation goes.

Portland is only option if McCollum — Dame isn’t on the table. And as mentioned above, Wolves deal is better.

Rosas sales pitch to Morey is the exact opposite as to his own organization. And probably more accurate in reality.

I detailed exactly why in another thread.

Err this thread:

The Wolves package is better than most give it credit.

The Picks: even with Simmons, in the West, Wolves aren’t even a top 5 team. The picks should be at worst 15-18, with a chance the new look Wolves don’t jive and 76ers get a lotto 1st (maybe multiple). Maybe the Kings and Spurs offer the same quality firsts, but Wolves do for sure.

The Swaps: any swaps offered in the deal should convey. Philly could get a 4-15 slot improvement — even without Simmons (more so if Dame or Beal acquired later).

I am so tired of this disingenuous argument that you have been making for weeks. If Rosas really thought adding Simmons still left the Wolves as nothing more than a middling team, he wouldn't be trading all of his future picks for him. Neither would you. So feel free to keep repeating it and hopefully you're just doing it to try and convince yourself because its not convincing anyone else.

I am so tired of you not opening your eyes to the reality. I am not saying anything to convince you, just trying to open your eyes to facts.

Doesn’t Rosas/Wolves have history (as early as last season) of trading their first assuming/hoping they would be more than middling team?

I am sure Rosas made the same pitch to management, that trading a very lightly protected 1st in the Wiggins trade would result in late lotto at worst, or better yet, 15+. “Don’t worry about it, we got this,” as his new team rich with buddies would be playoff bound. Oops it awarded Warriors 6th before lottery.

Now Rosas is making that same pitch to management. And the opposite pitch to Morey. Selling Morey on what is more likely the truth.

My money is on Morey being just as smart as Warriors to take that bet — the bet that perpetual lotto team that is the Wolves, even with Simmons will be 15-18 at worst, but with a hedge bet they are lotto again. After all, Wolves aren’t Nets trading away their future with KD/Harden/Irving.

[Wolveswin]

Like could you imagine Rosas walking into the owner's office and saying, hey I really want to tie up all of our future draft picks to land Ben Simmons because I think if everything falls right we could be the No. 5 seed in the West!

You aren’t that naive are you? You really think Rosas, a) believes that himself, or b) would actually be his pitch to management?

Just like in Wiggins trade, he thinks and sells his management it will be 15+, lotto is out of the realm of reality, he thinks and pitches. Oops, how did that turn out for him last year (and how well did that reward Warriors taking that bet)?

Reality is different, and Morey is smart enough to see that. Wolves would have a ton of growing pains. Simmons is new, Towns and Russell have played like 3 games together, Edwards is a raw sophomore. Doesn’t scream KD/Harden/Irving confidence now does it? Also not close to Giannis/Middleton/Holiday? Or Kawhi/George?

This is the Wolves organization we are talking about. And the 3 out of 4 of the big 4 hasn’t won a thing. Morey would be smart to take that bet.