OFFICIAL: DLO TO MINNY

[Laimbeer]

I mean, didn't we pretty much agree it would take more than a FRP and SRP just to dump Wiggins?

Congrats, Minny fans.

[Magic_Johnny12]

This crow pie doesn't taste good.

[rugbyrugger23]

I mean, didn't we pretty much agree it would take more than a FRP and SRP just to dump Wiggins?

Congrats, Minny fans.

Same point I made earlier.

Wiggins + 2021 FRP (Top 3 Protected) + 2021 SRP for Batum and we have a more even poll (who won?).

Out of the box, Wolves won 100% this trade, no doubt about it. Dump Wiggins (addition by subtraction), get Towns buddy, and arguably the better player.

Where the argument is where the pendulum falls with time.

Wiggins much improved in GSW/Wolves Suck ------------------------------ Russell and Towns duo Awesome/6th seed in West 2021

That is the pendulum. Where it falls changes the "who won" question in due time.

[jayjaysee]

I hated most DLo to Minnesota trades posted here.

But I love this one for Minnesota. Getting it to be the 2021 first instead of the 2020 first, while dumping Wiggins. And getting other little value back..

I didn’t think GSW could get much for Russell, but I thought they’d do better than this. They still are the Warriors so they’ll be fine. I just might have sat if this was the value offered. See what else opens up.. Can’t imagine Minnesota not offering that on draft night..

[Texas Chuck]

Wolves did a lot of things right this deadline. Got off Wiggins, traded Covington for value, completely turned over the roster.

But they undo so much of it by bringing in Russell. Hate that so much for them.

[HartfordWhalers]

Wolves did a lot of things right this deadline. Got off Wiggins, traded Covington for value, completely turned over the roster.

But they undo so much of it by bringing in Russell. Hate that so much for them.

Blindly posting rpm with no comment and the disclaimer that rpm is not meant to mean more than it does:

Outgoing:
Gorgui Dieng MIN 46 16.9 -2.26 2.98 0.72
Incoming:
James Johnson MIA 18 15.6 0.25 -0.63 -0.38

Outgoing:
Robert Covington MIN -- -- 1.38 0.70 2.09
Incoming:
Malik Beasley DEN 41 18.2 0.41 -0.03 0.38
Juan Hernangomez DEN 34 12.4 -1.56 -0.29 -1.84

Outgoing:
Andrew Wiggins MIN 42 34.6 1.15 -1.69 -0.53
Incoming:
D'Angelo Russell GS 33 32.1 2.47 -2.66 -0.19

Outgoing:
21 Minn pick top 3 prot
Incoming:
'20 Bkn ick top 14 prot

[Slava]

Draymond is going to do to Wiggins what KG did to Big baby.

[Slava]

Quite frankly what are the Warriors doing? I was afraid they were going to parlay D'Lo + top 4 pick into someone good, now they clogged up their cap sheet and couldn't even get Minnesota to remove the protections on the pick to increase lottery odds.

[HartfordWhalers]

Wolves did a lot of things right this deadline. Got off Wiggins, traded Covington for value, completely turned over the roster.

But they undo so much of it by bringing in Russell. Hate that so much for them.

Blindly posting rpm with no comment and the disclaimer that rpm is not meant to mean more than it does:

Outgoing:
Gorgui Dieng MIN 46 16.9 -2.26 2.98 0.72
Incoming:
James Johnson MIA 18 15.6 0.25 -0.63 -0.38

Outgoing:
Robert Covington MIN -- -- 1.38 0.70 2.09
Incoming:
Malik Beasley DEN 41 18.2 0.41 -0.03 0.38
Juan Hernangomez DEN 34 12.4 -1.56 -0.29 -1.84

Outgoing:
Andrew Wiggins MIN 42 34.6 1.15 -1.69 -0.53
Incoming:
D'Angelo Russell GS 33 32.1 2.47 -2.66 -0.19

Outgoing:
21 Minn pick top 3 prot
Incoming:
'20 Bkn ick top 14 prot

Looks like they got older and worse in the bigman swap, got considerably worse in the Covington swap, gave up the much more valuable pick, but did get slightly ahead in the Russell/Wiggins swap, admittedly by torching a defense that was already their issue.

*If* you went by rpm, you would have it a very bad trade deadline across the board I would assume.

[Nate the Great]

Covington couldn't cover for Towns alone, how is he supposed to cover for Towns and Russell?

Andrew Wiggins was similarly abysmal at defending.

Nowhere near as bad.

Russell has a DBPM of -3.1, which is fourth worst in the NBA.
Wiggins has a DBPM of -1.3. Still bad, not similar.

This matches the eye test too. David Vanterpool has been working with Wiggins this season on his defense, and it looks improved. Vanterpool is the guy that helped Lillard improve from the defensive train wreck he used to be to close to neutral.

Moreover, the difference in athleticism is night and day. I hope the Wolves immediately assign Vanterpool to be his exclusive defensive coach, but there is a clear ceiling here.

People can make the point that Russell and Towns will work great together in a pick and roll (who wouldn’t look good next to Towns?), but they aren’t similarly bad on defense. MIN better score 130 every night.

So your best selling point for Wiggins is “he’s a bad defender, but not as bad as you think.” Can you point to something he does that contributes to winning, where he’s above average? I can’t. His scoring seems to be of the “empty stats” variety, he’s never struck me as a guy who looks to create for teammates, his perimeter shooting isn’t impressive, and as you said, his defense is below average. He doesn’t seem to do anything that fits the Warriors system.

Can you point to something he does well? I’d really like some good news right now.


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[mglviks1]

Warriors got rid of Russell and got two picks. They completely won the trade.

Hmm? They got one pick, and a much worse player and contract than Russell.


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And they gave up a top 4 protected first albeit in 2024 and likely a 2nd rounder to trade Iggy for cap space to sign iggy.

Basically GS
Trades
Iggy
24' 1st round pick(could be bad by then)
25' 2nd round pick
Russell
Burks
GR3
Spellman
Evans
For
Wiggins
Top 3 protected 21' min (should improve. Likely a 10-19 slot pick, so mid first)
And 4 2nd rounders.

Or in other terms they got fleeced in signing dlo to save face from losing KD.

[becorz]

D'Angelo Russell is a 23 year all star who was the 2nd pick in the draft and his only non rookie contract was a max contract. Yet he has been traded 3 times now. (I'll count him to GS as a trade because Brooklyn chose another player over him)

Is there something personality/chemistry wise that we are missing with him? We know about the Nick Young stuff, but is there something else. He seems like too good of a player to be moved this many times. Is there some other explanation?

[Texas Chuck]

D'Angelo Russell is a 23 year all star who was the 2nd pick in the draft and his only non rookie contract was a max contract. Yet he has been traded 3 times now. (I'll count him to GS as a trade because Brooklyn chose another player over him)

Is there something personality/chemistry wise that we are missing with him? We know about the Nick Young stuff, but is there something else. He seems like too good of a player to be moved this many times. Is there some other explanation?

There is nothing less valuable than a max guy only useful as a primary option who does nothing to elevate those around him. These guys are ceiling cappers. He's essentially Monta Ellis with no athleticism and a 3-pt shot. He puts up counting stats and a cursory glance suggests he's good.

But these are the players you most want to avoid getting committed to long-term. You just can't win with them. People are going to give me his volume 3-pt shooting this year and tell me he can play off-ball. Good luck with that. Now you need a primary creator who can defend wings because he can't do that either. Jason Kidd isn't walking through that door.

[Dr Positivity]

D'Angelo Russell is a 23 year all star who was the 2nd pick in the draft and his only non rookie contract was a max contract. Yet he has been traded 3 times now. (I'll count him to GS as a trade because Brooklyn chose another player over him)

Is there something personality/chemistry wise that we are missing with him? We know about the Nick Young stuff, but is there something else. He seems like too good of a player to be moved this many times. Is there some other explanation?

He’s an overrated type of player, but I think changing teams so much is circumstantial. BKN likely would’ve been happy to resign him if not for the Kyrie situation, and for GSW was planning to use him as a trade chip from the start. In the Lakers case you can blame it on Russell not being that good for them I guess

[gom]

Pups won this deal by a lot. They got rid of Wiggins and added Russell for a SRP and FRP. That's a great move.

[Nate the Great]

D'Angelo Russell is a 23 year all star who was the 2nd pick in the draft and his only non rookie contract was a max contract. Yet he has been traded 3 times now. (I'll count him to GS as a trade because Brooklyn chose another player over him)

Is there something personality/chemistry wise that we are missing with him? We know about the Nick Young stuff, but is there something else. He seems like too good of a player to be moved this many times. Is there some other explanation?

There is nothing less valuable than a max guy only useful as a primary option who does nothing to elevate those around him. These guys are ceiling cappers. He's essentially Monta Ellis with no athleticism and a 3-pt shot. He puts up counting stats and a cursory glance suggests he's good.

But these are the players you most want to avoid getting committed to long-term. You just can't win with them. People are going to give me his volume 3-pt shooting this year and tell me he can play off-ball. Good luck with that. Now you need a primary creator who can defend wings because he can't do that either. Jason Kidd isn't walking through that door.

I think everything you just said is truer about Wiggins than about Russell. Russell has 6.2 APG this year playing with scrubs, while Wiggins has 3.7 APG playing with KAT, among others. I would love to hear one thing Wiggins does well.


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[wolves_89]

I was never a fan of DLO to the Wolves primarily because I viewed he and Wiggins to be a pairing that would be disastrous (both on the court and financially). Exchanging Wiggins for Russell makes it more palatable, but I'm not convinced the move is all that much of an upgrade for Minnesota. With that said this year pretty much proved the Wiggins/Towns pairing wasn't going to work, so trying something different is worth doing.

[Neeva]

Dlo has helped the warriors g leaguers to just three less wins than Minnesota with kat, roco this season....

[jscott]

D'Angelo Russell is a 23 year all star who was the 2nd pick in the draft and his only non rookie contract was a max contract. Yet he has been traded 3 times now. (I'll count him to GS as a trade because Brooklyn chose another player over him)

Is there something personality/chemistry wise that we are missing with him? We know about the Nick Young stuff, but is there something else. He seems like too good of a player to be moved this many times. Is there some other explanation?

There is nothing less valuable than a max guy only useful as a primary option who does nothing to elevate those around him. These guys are ceiling cappers. He's essentially Monta Ellis with no athleticism and a 3-pt shot. He puts up counting stats and a cursory glance suggests he's good.

But these are the players you most want to avoid getting committed to long-term. You just can't win with them. People are going to give me his volume 3-pt shooting this year and tell me he can play off-ball. Good luck with that. Now you need a primary creator who can defend wings because he can't do that either. Jason Kidd isn't walking through that door.

I think everything you just said is truer about Wiggins than about Russell. Russell has 6.2 APG this year playing with scrubs, while Wiggins has 3.7 APG playing with KAT, among others. I would love to hear one thing Wiggins does well.


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He's a tremendous athlete. He's pretty good at finishing at the rim. He used to get to the line a lot when he was getting calls earlier in his career but not so much lately. He's also been fairly good in late game "clutch" moments FWIW.

[giberish]

This is very bad for GS. Wiggins just doesn't have a role on a good team outside of bench scorer, and the Warriors have way too much money tied up in current stars to pay a bench scorer $30M/yr.

Dieng and Covington for DLo would have been a far, far better deal. Covington brings the size and defense needed at SF to get the Warriors back to being competitive next season. Why GS would want Wiggins, who doesn't solve any perimeter defensive issue and probably makes the offense worse when playing with Steph and Klay, I have no idea - except the general suspicion/fear that the post-West Warrior FO isn't nearly as smart as they think they are.

I wasn't even that high on the DLo signing to begin with. I felt he was positive value on a 25% max deal, but not wildly positive value and the cost for getting him - moving a 1st when GS is likely to be rebuilding - was high. At this point I'd value having Winslow over having Wiggins + Minny's 2021 1st - GS 2024 1st. Especially as the GS 1st may be more valuable. (though Minny moving Covington helps the value of their 2021 1st - DLo/Beasley/Culver/???/Towns has big defensive problems, while DLo/Culver/Covington/??/Towns could hold up on defense and be competitive).