Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[kuclas]

I would bet my last dollar that the Ben Simmons return isnt better than CJ + Covington.

Like the other poster said, it's a downgrade to get CJ and Covington. CJ ain't cheap either 90 million for next 3 years so it's not like they have the flexibility to off load money if CJ doesn't work out.

And like the other poster said. While Simmons playoffs offense is exposed. Guys that play little defense get hunted down. It happened when Sixers had JJ Reddick. It happen to Seth Curry in playoffs. There is no question it will happen to CJ in the playoffs.

The Sixers will be fine regular season with or without Simmons. No need to take on bad contracts and players that don't really improve the team. Frankly I'd rather have Norm Powell over CJ. He's got a better motor, plays more defense and cheaper. There is a reason CJ is expendable in Portland. It's because they got no use for him either.

[kuclas]

so heres my take abt simmons. all the contenders know morey made a huge blunder and will give these ridiculous lowball offers but morey will lose his job if he takes one so he wont trade. im betting at least one desperate team like the cavs throw the kitchen sink for simmons and maxey. it will be something like sexton plus every unprotected pick and swaps or another lottery team that offers it to make playoffs.

yr 3 garland, 20+ ppg lauri, simmons, mobley, allen is a scary 7ft group that reminds me of the nuggets.

Love would need to be included in for Salary purposes And non team wants Love 60 million. That's why the Sexton talk has completely died down and Cavaliers traded Larry Nance to Portland.

[Rastas]

Simmons could go anywhere.
He needs a fresh start.
Whoever gets him will be instantly better.
Whoever gets him will also soon forget about what it cost.

[kuclas]

Simmons is one of my favorite non Hawk players. I would love to see him at PF paired up with Trae. Will that be Atlanta's big consolidation move? Probably not; but I do think the Hawks are one of the few teams that can carry Simmons weak shooting.

Offensive Trae and Defensive Simmons paired up would probably scare the heck out of Morey and Doc. I doubt seriously the Hawks are a team they want to send Simmons to.

Here's the problem with Simmons. He's not a true 5, he hardly ever defends 5. Simmons plus Capela on the same floor would be hack a capela plus hack a Simmons. Few people realize Capela was equally horrible from the free throw line in the same series. Shot the same 33%. No one talks about it because Doc Rivers failed to realize Capela was scared at the free throw line as well. Capela like Simmons is a 60% career free throw shooter.

So I just don't see Simmons working with Capela and the Hawks.

[BlazersBroncos]

I would bet my last dollar that the Ben Simmons return isnt better than CJ + Covington.

Like the other poster said, it's a downgrade to get CJ and Covington. CJ ain't cheap either 90 million for next 3 years so it's not like they have the flexibility to off load money if CJ doesn't work out.

And like the other poster said. While Simmons playoffs offense is exposed. Guys that play little defense get hunted down. It happened when Sixers had JJ Reddick. It happen to Seth Curry in playoffs. There is no question it will happen to CJ in the playoffs.

The Sixers will be fine regular season with or without Simmons. No need to take on bad contracts and players that don't really improve the team. Frankly I'd rather have Norm Powell over CJ. He's got a better motor, plays more defense and cheaper. There is a reason CJ is expendable in Portland. It's because they got no use for him either.

CJ has shown enough offensive talent to be a closer in the playoffs, something that PHI really lacks. He isnt a perfect player but people act like he isnt an upgrade over Seth freaking Curry. Thats bananas.

CJ and Covington on PHI in place of Ben Simmons absolutely puts them in the place of having a better team. Probably the 2nd best by a good margin in the East after BRK.

At some point we will see what the true value of CJ is. I think its higher than most think, but lower than many Blazers fans wish.

[BullyKing]

so heres my take abt simmons. all the contenders know morey made a huge blunder and will give these ridiculous lowball offers but morey will lose his job if he takes one so he wont trade. im betting at least one desperate team like the cavs throw the kitchen sink for simmons and maxey. it will be something like sexton plus every unprotected pick and swaps or another lottery team that offers it to make playoffs.

yr 3 garland, 20+ ppg lauri, simmons, mobley, allen is a scary 7ft group that reminds me of the nuggets.

Love would need to be included in for Salary purposes And non team wants Love 60 million. That's why the Sexton talk has completely died down and Cavaliers traded Larry Nance to Portland.

Love wouldn't need to be involved. Rubio and Sexton and a filler or two is enough to match Simmons and Cleveland has a TPE large enough for Maxey.

[kuclas]

Are we sure FVV is even on the table? For all his playmaking I think Ben is still best served as the secondary shot creator, who takes a bit role as primary creator when the #1 guy is off the floor (For example, on Portland he plays primary ballhandler the 14-16 minutes Dame isnt on the court).

I think the vast, vast majority of Ben's value comes with his defense. He is an animal on defense, against small scoring PGs to bigger PFs. He can even switch on C and guard well. He is just so gifted in that regard. But on the flip his offense is so poor that he needs to be on a team w/ 2+ 20ppg scorers IMO.

Simmons can score. He's legit 6 foot 10. He only takes 10/11 shots a game. That's the problem. He may not be able to shoot. But he can blow by bigger and slower guys. He had mental breakdown in Hawks series. NBA transition game is part of the offense and obviously that's where Simmons excels on offense. So don't think of Simmons is just defense. He's is useful on offense when he wants to be aggressive.

If Simmons were on the Kings jacking up 20 shots like Fox, he would average 25/8/8 and people would be wow'd by his "scoring" even if he can't shoot.

[DroseReturnChi]

so heres my take abt simmons. all the contenders know morey made a huge blunder and will give these ridiculous lowball offers but morey will lose his job if he takes one so he wont trade. im betting at least one desperate team like the cavs throw the kitchen sink for simmons and maxey. it will be something like sexton plus every unprotected pick and swaps or another lottery team that offers it to make playoffs.

yr 3 garland, 20+ ppg lauri, simmons, mobley, allen is a scary 7ft group that reminds me of the nuggets.

Love would need to be included in for Salary purposes And non team wants Love 60 million. That's why the Sexton talk has completely died down and Cavaliers traded Larry Nance to Portland.

yeah my bad that would be a scenario for next yr for sign and trade sexton but love and unprotected would still beat cj or even allen and picks. i still think cavs will try to move every unprotected pick, sexton, love for simmons because lauri their top 3 asset needs a facilitator like simmons and cavs will be willing to sacrifice their assets to get rid of love and for an upgrade. we already saw boston moving horford i dont think love costs more than a single pick whether its to philly or not. sexton, love, all the picks for simmons, maxey, filler isnt that bad either since morey could get rid of sexton,love in the future.

[Texas Chuck]

KAT for Simmons straight up.

Philly adds talent and goes twin towers plus KAT likes to play from outside anyways.

Minnesota enters a new era building around Edwards and Simmons making defense a priority. They can also trade DLO later.

I counter with Embiid for Josh Okogie. Philly can build around the terrific contracts of Simmons and Harris.

Please don’t insult the board with horrific takes.


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This is a clear violation of board policy against unreasonable counters. In the future when you see deals you don't like either ignore them or find a different way to tell them why you don't like it. This just further derails things.

Thanks

[Texas Chuck]

CJ has shown enough offensive talent to be a closer in the playoffs, something that PHI really lacks. He isnt a perfect player but people act like he isnt an upgrade over Seth freaking Curry. Thats bananas.

I would agree CJ is the better player, but I'm not sold at all he has more trade value than Seth. Seth makes barely 1/4 of what CJ does, defends and shoots better. That's a lot of extra money for some good, but hardly great shot creation. My regular reminder that CJ has like one season of above average scoring efficiency.

It's not quite as bad as the Buddy Hield stuff where the difference in ability is almost nothing but the difference in pay is large. But if I have Seth Curry making nothing for 2 more years I'm certainly not anxious to trade Ben Simmons for CJ.

[Texas Chuck]

I would bet my last dollar that the Ben Simmons return isnt better than CJ + Covington.

Oh and I'll take that bet and you're gonna regret....

[DroseReturnChi]

Thinking they’ll offer wiseman, moody, Kuminga, multiple firsts and Wiggins (who they view as a positive asset) is not reality.

they need to offer all of them only because wiggins is a huge red flag to championship contender which is why i suggested klove plus all unprotected im not just hating warriors.

another scenario if cavs dont offer is magic. they have too many young core they need to cut some to solidify a big 3 and i could see them trading issac whose potential is simmons but a lot more proven than 19 yr old kids it wont require picks. the end offer will be isaac some combination of okeke/hampton/carter/bamba for simmons, maxey.

[the_process]

Collin Sexton
Malik Beasley
Buddy Hield
Malcolm Brogdon

These are the types of guys Philly is likely being offered. If De'Aaron Fox, Tyrese Haliburton, Anthony Edwards or even the Golden State package were available ... a trade would have already been made.

There's logic to this stance. However, if you believe that up until this point Morey has basically had tunnel vision, it may or may not be true.

[the_process]

Hield is a great scorer and in his prime. Bagley is a good young player with untapped potential. Add a pick and I think that is a solid package for Simmons at his salary.

Bagley is a bust. Hield is negative value. Simmons is definitely not negative value, even now.

If you want to send just those two for Ben, IMO it’s 3 1sts (two unprotected, one lotto protected) and 2 swaps.

If Sacto wants to add Ben cheaply as possible? A good way to start is to add value by offering a Barnes-Tobias swap. Build out from there.

I think Simmons value is not that high. That offer that I was suggesting is more than fair IMO.

Well, in less than a month we will know his truth value around the league and what package he brings to the Sixers.

It's not fair. And as always, before you even get to fair value you have to hit the reserve price.

[gambitx777]

So as far as my opinon goes the type of player they are gonna get as a center piece center for a Simmons trade.

Would be
Fox , CJ, OG, Johnathan Issac, Grant (Det), Aaron Gordon, Jaren Jackson Jr, Beasley.

Obviously there would be another player or some filler added but that's about it.

No maybe brogdon could be put back on the table but my god Indiana would be stupid to do that cuz Ben just shouldn't play PG.

If OKC puts SGA back on the table they should take it and run but now they have giddy who is Ben light.

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[jg77]

So as far as my opinon goes the type of player they are gonna get as a center piece center for a Simmons trade.

Would be
Fox , CJ, OG, Johnathan Issac, Grant (Det), Aaron Gordon, Jaren Jackson Jr, Beasley.

Obviously there would be another player or some filler added but that's about it.

No maybe brogdon could be put back on the table but my god Indiana would be stupid to do that cuz Ben just shouldn't play PG.

If OKC puts SGA back on the table they should take it and run but now they have giddy who is Ben light.

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Fox is the nicest of the bunch here but with his current trajectory there is no way you trade him for Simmons. I think if Fox was on the table then a deal would've been done already, right?

[howiezbt]

I like this one for all three teams and works under the cap:

Portland Trades: McCollum and Roco
Portland gets: Simmons and Justin Holiday

Indiana Trades: Brogdon and Holiday
Indiana Gets: Maxey and Roco

Philly Trades: Simmons and Maxey
Philly Gets: Brogdon and McCollum


Portland gets Simmons to pair with Lilliard and the sahooters on that team.

Indiana pairs a young budding star with Lavert and Sabonis. Love love this for Indiana

Philly gets solid veteran all start type players who are big time shooters to go with Embiid to make a run for the title.

[Commodor]

Thinking they’ll offer wiseman, moody, Kuminga, multiple firsts and Wiggins (who they view as a positive asset) is not reality.

they need to offer all of them only because wiggins is a huge red flag to championship contender which is why i suggested klove plus all unprotected im not just hating warriors.

another scenario if cavs dont offer is magic. they have too many young core they need to cut some to solidify a big 3 and i could see them trading issac whose potential is simmons but a lot more proven than 19 yr old kids it wont require picks. the end offer will be isaac some combination of okeke/hampton/carter/bamba for simmons, maxey.

They do not "need" to offer anything. Anthony Slater at the Athletic reported today that not only does GSW have no-to-little interest in Simmons but they have "zero interest" in moving their youth for vets unless its for "an obvious bargain". Happy to link if needed. This is the consistent theme all offseason coming out of GSW, pre and post draft. If anything the 6ers need to drastically lower their asking price if GSW is their preferred trade partner.

As for ORL/Isaac the Warriors are trying to move towards stable and reliable players. Love Isaac's game but coming off injury probably excludes him from their target list. EDIT - never mind this thought you meant Isaac to GSW. But I think the same issue exists for the 6ers.

[Texas Chuck]

I like this one for all three teams and works under the cap:

Portland Trades: McCollum and Roco
Portland gets: Simmons and Justin Holiday

Indiana Trades: Brogdon and Holiday
Indiana Gets: Maxey and Roco

Philly Trades: Simmons and Maxey
Philly Gets: Brogdon and McCollum


Portland gets Simmons to pair with Lilliard and the sahooters on that team.

Indiana pairs a young budding star with Lavert and Sabonis. Love love this for Indiana

Philly gets solid veteran all start type players who are big time shooters to go with Embiid to make a run for the title.

I love this deal for Portland. I mind it less than most for Philly. But I'm confused. Is Maxey supposed to be a young, budding star? Because that feels like a pretty massive leap at this point, no?

[Helsbyte]

I like this one for all three teams and works under the cap:

Portland Trades: McCollum and Roco
Portland gets: Simmons and Justin Holiday

Indiana Trades: Brogdon and Holiday
Indiana Gets: Maxey and Roco

Philly Trades: Simmons and Maxey
Philly Gets: Brogdon and McCollum


This makes no sense for Indiana. Giving up Brogdon for 2 players on the second unit.

T.J. McConnell. ??????
LeVert. Maxey
Warren. Duarte
Turner. Roco
Sabonis. Goga




Portland gets Simmons to pair with Lilliard and the sahooters on that team.

Indiana pairs a young budding star with Lavert and Sabonis. Love love this for Indiana

Philly gets solid veteran all start type players who are big time shooters to go with Embiid to make a run for the title.