Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[VDT]

It is a possibility that Simmons will force a trade that the Sixers will lose. No one denies that. Having said that, i dont think there is precedent where a good player but not a superstar, with 4 more years on his contract forced a trade from a good team, no matter what he wanted. Not that it cant happen, but even if Simmons is adamant that he wants out, it seems more likely that he will come to an agreement with Morey to do his best to improve his game and increase his trade value so that the Sixers can find a reasonable trade in the next year. Reasonable meaning that it helps the Sixers win a title.

[HornetJail]

Part 1: Charlotte and New York agree to release the protection on the CHA 2022 1st owed to the Knicks for Kai Jones (currently top 18 protected for 2 years, then lotto protected for 2 years, then 2nds). This benefits the Knicks as it guarantees a pick this year, and Charlotte so they can free up their other picks.

Part 2:

Charlotte trades: Gordon Hayward, Jalen McDaniels, Vernon Carey, 2022 NOLA 1st (lotto prot), 2023 CHA 1st (rights to swap), 2024 CHA 1st (top 5 prot, otherwise 2nd), 2025 CHA 1st (rights to swap), 2026 CHA 1st (top 5 prot until 2028, otherwise 2nd)

Philly trades: Ben Simmons

Philly creates a much better perimeter-oriented lineup around Embiid, and gives them more trade ammunition to go after someone like Beal or Lillard during the season. Before any other trade, their lineup is Embiid/Harris/Hayward/Green/one of Maxey/Milton/Curry with a deep bench as well as a few extra prospects to develop or send out to the team trading a star guard.

Charlotte, still ignoring all centers worth a damn, just decide to play small and add Simmons as its "big man". He's a transformative defender and adds playmkaing that was lost and not replaced in the offseason (Graham/Monk). Simmons also fits the timeline as a 25-year-old who is right in the middle of the average age of the rotation. Ball/Rozier/Bridges/Simmons/Washington + Smith/Bouknight/Oubre/Plumlee/Kai

[JRoy]

CJ does not have that kind of value.

Turner plus contracts for CJ plus cheap youth and/or picks is closer.

[LAL1947]

Is there any way Dallas can get in on this to snag McDaniels... pretty please?

[HornetJail]

Gordon Hayward

probably won't happen but i wouldn't mind staying yuong

[Scalabrine]

Morey will likely want Moody not Wiseman.

I would say more likely it involves another team or two with Wiseman going out for a better fitting piece, but this would be the base to branch off of.

Philadelphia 76ers get:
Andrew Wiggins
Jonathan Kuminga
Earlier of 2022 Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers (via OKC) First Round Draft Pick (Later of the two picks goes to the Warriors)

Golden State Warriors get:
Ben Simmons
Kenrich Williams

Oklahoma City Thunder get:
James Wiseman

??

So OKC is trading a late first and Kenrich Williams for Wiseman? Surely he has more value than that...

[NW]

Operating on the assumption that Simmons would come back to the team and dog it with 4 years left on his deal seems a bit....self-serving. We certainly can't eliminate that as a possibility but it's thrown around here as a presumed fact to slam a non-desirable deal through.

More like based on history. Has an unhappy player, irregardless of the number of years on their contract, ever had to go more than a season or so before being dealt? With history as a guide, what is the most likely scenario:

The Sixers trading an unhappy Simmons for a deal less than what Sixer fans are hoping for?

The Sixers keeping an unhappy Simmons for multiple seasons, cause a good enough deal doesn’t materialize, and the team doing well?

C) He reports back, plays, and some time over the next year a deal opens up that's suitable to all parties.

That is a third option, but again, using history as the guide, which is more likely? Simmons is just going to report back and play the good soldier after all that’s gone down?

Seems to seldom work that way imo.

[SO_MONEY]

I doubt MN or any team for that matter is willing to give massive stores of value for the "privilege" of paying Simmons.

[ThatBoyNick]

Stop bringing up Harden. Harden has nothing to do with this...it's apples and oranges.

Harden demanded the Nets. Simmons is not demanding the Wolves. Until Simmons says otherwise, the Wolves have no leverage.

The last report I saw is Simmons is unwilling to speak to Philly and won't show up for camp, lol

It is apples and oranges because Harden is a much much better player, the only saving grace Philly has is Simmons is locked up long-term.

Personally, I think this level of player empowerment in regards to trade demands are ridiculous, you shouldn't be able to sign a 5 year max and demand out in a year, but that's the situation. Ben's BPM and VORP has gone down every year since his rookie year, he's got talent, but man on that max he isn't terribly valuable IMO. I'd be happy Wolves are interested, they have all their own picks, and some pieces that would fit Philly well in Beasley and McDaniels. I think Philly will be better once they move on from Ben, too. Give Embiid the space he deserves to work, Joel is a generational talent, surround him with shooters and let him work.

[Scalabrine]

I doubt MN or any team for that matter is willing to give massive stores of value for the "privilege" of paying Simmons.

He was still an All-Star last year, and one of the best defensive players in the league. The Wolves have enough shooting and scoring to put around him and could really use more defensive minded players, especially ones that are happy to get others involved offensively and still make an impact without actually scoring.

[LAL1947]

Can Dallas get in on this please?

You can have anyone on the roster not named Luka, DFS, or THJ... and I'd like Jaden McDaniels.

[Scalabrine]

MN passes. Philadelphia can keep Simmons and bring him to camp or beyond.

You might not like Simmons but it appears that the Wolves management does.

[LAL1947]

Dallas - Porzingis. TBH, everyone on the roster is available, cept Luka and THJ (only tradable in Dec?), but I'd like to see them hang on to DFS.

[SO_MONEY]

I doubt MN or any team for that matter is willing to give massive stores of value for the "privilege" of paying Simmons.

He was still an All-Star last year, and one of the best defensive players in the league. The Wolves have enough shooting and scoring to put around him and could really use more defensive minded players, especially ones that are happy to get others involved offensively and still make an impact without actually scoring.

Meh. It is kind of an empty argument to rely on subjective judgments to justify trade value. He is not a contract teams want for a myriad of reasons despite his accolades. The only reason people think he has value is because some of the media acts like he does, the reality is the market is dry and MN is only interested if the cost is low.

[GutUNC]

More like based on history. Has an unhappy player, irregardless of the number of years on their contract, ever had to go more than a season or so before being dealt? With history as a guide, what is the most likely scenario:

The Sixers trading an unhappy Simmons for a deal less than what Sixer fans are hoping for?

The Sixers keeping an unhappy Simmons for multiple seasons, cause a good enough deal doesn’t materialize, and the team doing well?

C) He reports back, plays, and some time over the next year a deal opens up that's suitable to all parties.

That is a third option, but again, using history as the guide, which is more likely? Simmons is just going to report back and play the good soldier after all that’s gone down?

Seems to seldom work that way imo.

"All that's gone down" is Simmons played like crap against Atlanta, admitted he played like crap but had Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly. I'm not naive enough to eliminate anything as a possibility, but that's hardly some insurmountable mountain that makes me assume that Simmons isn't going to report to camp or try to sabotage the team rather then just playing and rehabbing his value.

[Godaddycurse]

Part 1: Charlotte and New York agree to release the protection on the CHA 2022 1st owed to the Knicks for Kai Jones (currently top 18 protected for 2 years, then lotto protected for 2 years, then 2nds). This benefits the Knicks as it guarantees a pick this year, and Charlotte so they can free up their other picks.

Part 2:

Charlotte trades: Gordon Hayward, Jalen McDaniels, Vernon Carey, 2022 NOLA 1st (lotto prot), 2023 CHA 1st (rights to swap), 2024 CHA 1st (top 5 prot, otherwise 2nd), 2025 CHA 1st (rights to swap), 2026 CHA 1st (top 5 prot until 2028, otherwise 2nd)

Philly trades: Ben Simmons

Philly creates a much better perimeter-oriented lineup around Embiid, and gives them more trade ammunition to go after someone like Beal or Lillard during the season. Before any other trade, their lineup is Embiid/Harris/Hayward/Green/one of Maxey/Milton/Curry with a deep bench as well as a few extra prospects to develop or send out to the team trading a star guard.

Charlotte, still ignoring all centers worth a damn, just decide to play small and add Simmons as its "big man". He's a transformative defender and adds playmkaing that was lost and not replaced in the offseason (Graham/Monk). Simmons also fits the timeline as a 25-year-old who is right in the middle of the average age of the rotation. Ball/Rozier/Bridges/Simmons/Washington + Smith/Bouknight/Oubre/Plumlee/Kai

how does part 1 benefit the knicks if it lets charlotte upgrade their team via getting simmons? it means their pick will be lower value

[HartfordWhalers]

I suggest you actually start doing some real moderating

Formally warned.

[SO_MONEY]

MN passes. Philadelphia can keep Simmons and bring him to camp or beyond.

You might not like Simmons but it appears that the Wolves management does.

I didn't say I don't like him, he is flawed and overpaid, but I am open to eating his contract in the right circumstances. I would assume wolves management is of the same mindset.

[Scalabrine]

I doubt MN or any team for that matter is willing to give massive stores of value for the "privilege" of paying Simmons.

He was still an All-Star last year, and one of the best defensive players in the league. The Wolves have enough shooting and scoring to put around him and could really use more defensive minded players, especially ones that are happy to get others involved offensively and still make an impact without actually scoring.

Meh. It is kind of an empty argument to rely on subjective judgments to justify trade value. He is not a contract teams want for a myriad of reasons despite his accolades. The only reason people think he has value is because some of the media acts like he does, the reality is the market is dry and MN is only interested if the cost is low.

Getting an All-Star that fit's nicely without giving up your 3 best players is a pretty low cost move, no?

[HartfordWhalers]

MN passes. Philadelphia can keep Simmons and bring him to camp or beyond.

You might not like Simmons but it appears that the Wolves management does.

I didn't say I don't like him, he is flawed and overpaid, but I am open to eating his contract in the right circumstances. I would assume wolves management is of the same mindset.

This makes it sound like Minnesota is looking for compensation for taking Simmons, not clearly offering compensation to get him. Which seems completely bat **** crazy, regardless of how many times a Minnesota fan makes it as a 'serious' comment in a different thread.