Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0

[Buzzard]

I mean otoh we are told Travis never ever leaks so names not being mentioned are really irrelevant to who might be offered, but otoh self-serving player valuations is always the best use of this board and not say a fansite so....

You have to agree no fan wants to see their team get took to the cleaners on a trade. Why would you ever expect anything different?

I value Shams and he did not say where his info is coming from. Is it coming from Atlanta or is it coming from other teams?

[psman2]

Yep, if you're trading for Ball you're doing it knowing he's getting paid a ton. Like probably twice what Smart makes.

And I like Ball a lot too, but Smart has been one of Boston's beat players for a while and makes relatively little. Would think it's at least two firsts for him to even get a discussion. But who knows, I don't think he's be available to start.

But you are only getting Smart for one more year at 14.3m then he is a ufa and will be paid in the neighborhood of Ball after next season. I would pay less for Ball if those are the prices of each player and know I am matching a big contract.

[Buzzard]

Smart looked great defensively without Horford. And Hayward is not someone who boosts someone's defensive rep.

Are you just trying to use inflammatory rhetoric? I really don't get the point of comments like this.

I am logically speaking of the teams loss in efficiency which Smart as a inefficient player cannot make up. Logic my man. Hayward was more important than Smart in my opinion. But a lot of the rhetoric reads the other way.

Smart has way less value than others give him due to his weak offense. Your trade of Okongwu, Reddish, and Bogdan only reinforces that for me.

Why is Smart’s efficiency considered a negative while Reddish or Bogdanovic’s worse efficiency is ignored? Especially with Trae to generate them open looks and improve things for them?

I admitted the value hit Reddish has taken. But Bogdans career TS% is a lot better than Smarts.
Bogdan .548TS%
Smart .504TS%
Given the limited amount of games this season for these two players, I do prefer the larger sample size for both of them.

[Buzzard]

Yep, if you're trading for Ball you're doing it knowing he's getting paid a ton. Like probably twice what Smart makes.

And I like Ball a lot too, but Smart has been one of Boston's beat players for a while and makes relatively little. Would think it's at least two firsts for him to even get a discussion. But who knows, I don't think he's be available to start.

But you are only getting Smart for one more year at 14.3m then he is a ufa and will be paid in the neighborhood of Ball after next season. I would pay less for Ball if those are the prices of each player and know I am matching a big contract.

Great point. For some people this is checkers and a short term view. For some it is chess and a long term view.

[Celts17Pride]

I still have Smart as perhaps the best fit in the league next to Trae, all things considered. (No one tell me Harden etc is better, please).
If Atlanta could do a deal that brought Smart in without destroying what is working....

Okay, here goes:

Bogdan/Okongku for Smart/TT type basis {obviously both teams get 2-3 1sts}
Bogdan/Reddish/1st for Smart/TT {again, add multiple 1sts to each}
Bogdan/Reddish/Okongku for Smart/TT/1st {more 1sts for everyone as well}

I think you have it the other way around. Celtics don't trade for Bogdan unless they are getting Collins. Taking on Bogdan's contract is a starting condition from the Hawks to listen to the Celtics offer for Collins.

Despite the obvious drop off with losing Hayward, I am sure the " Smart is to important narrative" is not far away. Ainge probably won't make any big deals. That is his deadline MO. And Smarts importance will be on full display without Hayward or Horfords' efficiency holding him up by his jockstrap.

I hope this is a leverage leak because I do prefer Balls overall game a lot more than Smarts.

I personally don't think any deal will get done. All I was trying to say was taking BB's contract is a Hawks condition if the Celtics want to be involved on Collins. Not even saying the Hawks would do a deal, just saying they won't do any deal with the Celtics unless they took BB off the Hawks hands.

I think a Bos/Atl deal probably looks something like Smart/Theis/Nesmith/1st round pick for Collins/Bogdanovic. I say the probability is most likely 15% of a deal getting done but who knows?

I am not expecting a deal to get done.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I am logically speaking of the teams loss in efficiency which Smart as a inefficient player cannot make up. Logic my man. Hayward was more important than Smart in my opinion. But a lot of the rhetoric reads the other way.

Smart has way less value than others give him due to his weak offense. Your trade of Okongwu, Reddish, and Bogdan only reinforces that for me.

Why is Smart’s efficiency considered a negative while Reddish or Bogdanovic’s worse efficiency is ignored? Especially with Trae to generate them open looks and improve things for them?

I admitted the value hit Reddish has taken. But Bogdans career TS% is a lot better than Smarts.
Bogdan .548TS%
Smart .504TS%
Given the limited amount of games this season for these two players, I do prefer the larger sample size for both of them.

Two of the last three seasons, Smart has a higher TS. Over the last three seasons, their TS is virtually identical.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck— chances are its a duck. Youre looking for reasons to poke holes in other players while ignoring that the exact same flaws exist in the players you’d be trading.

[bondom34]

Yep, if you're trading for Ball you're doing it knowing he's getting paid a ton. Like probably twice what Smart makes.

And I like Ball a lot too, but Smart has been one of Boston's beat players for a while and makes relatively little. Would think it's at least two firsts for him to even get a discussion. But who knows, I don't think he's be available to start.

But you are only getting Smart for one more year at 14.3m then he is a ufa and will be paid in the neighborhood of Ball after next season. I would pay less for Ball if those are the prices of each player and know I am matching a big contract.

That's one year of value for cheap, and a history of Smart being a better player. And I like Ball a good bit.

Smart rates out better in 3 year RAPM, 3 year luck adjusted, multi year of BBall Index's metric, creates a bit more for him self in terms of 2 point shots, isn't much older, and has been able to help lead some really good defenses.

I'm not sure they're like incredibly far off in terms of how good they'll be, but that one year makes a difference and we've seen Smart be a key contributor on successful teams, we haven't with Ball yet (and I'm fairly high on Lonzo myself).

If I have the choice of one cheap year or no cheap years, I'd take the one cheap year. That's not chess vs checkers, its a year vs nothing.

[MotownMadness]

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[MotownMadness]

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[HartfordWhalers]

Oh heck, let's risk getting everyone upset:

Approximate value charts as decided solely by HFW.
Warning: Any other use may result in forum combustion

Collins 1.00
Smart: .75
Okongku .65
Atlanta 1st/Boston 1st: .5
Lonzo: .475
Atlanta future lotto protected 1st .4
Bogdan .075
Reddish .05
TPE: 0.00
TT -.05 (maybe -.1?)

I have something like that, but could see Bogdan more at .025 for instance and Reddish more like .1, etc...

And getting the highest value asset usually means you overpay, as consolidating is the hardest thing in the NBA to do. So,

To get Collins as the best player in a deal I would have it Smart + Boston 1st.
To get Smart as the best player in a deal I would have it Atlanta 1s + 2nd lotto protected 1st?
To get Lonzo either team's firsts look like a nice even trade to me, Atlanta could keep Reddish unless there is some bidding war and I'm just really off.

Don't quote me, see the warning above. Instead, go ahead and post yours!

[Buzzard]

Why is Smart’s efficiency considered a negative while Reddish or Bogdanovic’s worse efficiency is ignored? Especially with Trae to generate them open looks and improve things for them?

I admitted the value hit Reddish has taken. But Bogdans career TS% is a lot better than Smarts.
Bogdan .548TS%
Smart .504TS%
Given the limited amount of games this season for these two players, I do prefer the larger sample size for both of them.

Two of the last three seasons, Smart has a higher TS. Over the last three seasons, their TS is virtually identical.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck— chances are its a duck. Youre looking for reasons to poke holes in other players while ignoring that the exact same flaws exist in the players you’d be trading.

Lets throw this season out since its only 17 and 23 games so far. Here is the duck you speak of:

Bogdan .556, .530, .565
Smart .518, .568, .479

I like the Bogdan duck walking on offense.

[bondom34]

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/hoopla-with-haynes-aaron-gordon-wont-be-traded-to-rockets-kings-make-marvin-bagley-iii-available-171248310.html?__twitter_impression=true

Collins trade unlikely.

Gordon to Houston seemed close but he didn't want to go to a rebuild and PDX talks diminished. Denver not desperate.

McGee seems like a buyout.

Bagley for Saddiq Bey turned down by Detroit.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I admitted the value hit Reddish has taken. But Bogdans career TS% is a lot better than Smarts.
Bogdan .548TS%
Smart .504TS%
Given the limited amount of games this season for these two players, I do prefer the larger sample size for both of them.

Two of the last three seasons, Smart has a higher TS. Over the last three seasons, their TS is virtually identical.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck— chances are its a duck. Youre looking for reasons to poke holes in other players while ignoring that the exact same flaws exist in the players you’d be trading.

Lets throw this season out since its only 23 and 17 games so far. Here is the duck you speak of:
Bogdan .556, .530, .565
Smart .518, .568, .479
I like the Bogdan duck walking on offense.

Your throwing out this year because you dont like the results

This isnt even close to intellectual honesty and you know it.

[Buzzard]

Two of the last three seasons, Smart has a higher TS. Over the last three seasons, their TS is virtually identical.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck— chances are its a duck. Youre looking for reasons to poke holes in other players while ignoring that the exact same flaws exist in the players you’d be trading.

Lets throw this season out since its only 23 and 17 games so far. Here is the duck you speak of:
Bogdan .556, .530, .565
Smart .518, .568, .479
I like the Bogdan duck walking on offense.

Your throwing out this year because you dont like the results

This isnt even close to intellectual honesty and you know it.

I don't know what betting rules are here. Like if a avatar bet is allowed. But I am more than willing to say Bogdan's TS% for this season will be better than Smart's when its all said and done.

I will for sure put myself on the eat crow list if I am wrong. What say you? Do you enjoy some crow as well?

[HartfordWhalers]

Bagley for Saddiq Bey turned down by Detroit.

Bagley not getting moved until '21 draft time will feel really sad, but seems likely.

[HartfordWhalers]

Bagley for Saddiq Bey turned down by Detroit.

Bagley not getting moved until '21 draft time will feel really sad, but seems likely.

This post will absolutely be in the eating crow thread. The minute I hit send I knew it.

[Texas Chuck]

Bagley for Saddiq Bey turned down by Detroit.

you don't say

[Mike lorenzo]

It seems the Mavs want Fournier ... Johnson and 2 seconds ... would be the offer ... supposedly.

[Kilo]

How is Houston a rebuild with Wall, Wood, 2021 Top 5 Pick, and then Gordon?

[SmartWentCrazy]

Lets throw this season out since its only 23 and 17 games so far. Here is the duck you speak of:
Bogdan .556, .530, .565
Smart .518, .568, .479
I like the Bogdan duck walking on offense.

Your throwing out this year because you dont like the results

This isnt even close to intellectual honesty and you know it.

I don't know what betting rules are here. Like if a avatar bet is allowed. But I am more than willing to say Bogdan's TS% for this season will be better than Smart's when its all said and done.

I will for sure put myself on the eat crow list if I am wrong. What say you? Do you enjoy some crow as well?

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I really dont care enough to make or track this bet.