Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Dat2U]

At this point, if I had to bet money on it, I'd say Simmons gets dealt to Indy for that Brogdon package. The offers aren't going to get any better.

[NYG]

Not saying it's the right deal, but purely value-wise... How many unprotected picks could Philly get from Minnesota in a McDaniels/Bev/Prince for Simmons swap?

[Dat2U]

Not saying it's the right deal, but purely value-wise... How many unprotected picks could Philly get from Minnesota in a McDaniels/Bev/Prince for Simmons swap?

I doubt Philly goes for anything like that. They'll likely go for the best player they can get right now to pair with Embiid with a pick or two included if possible.

[NYG]

Not saying it's the right deal, but purely value-wise... How many unprotected picks could Philly get from Minnesota in a McDaniels/Bev/Prince for Simmons swap?

I doubt Philly goes for anything like that. They'll likely go for the best player they can get right now to pair with Embiid with a pick or two included if possible.

Just thinking more of a multi-team type that starts with that and branches off. Would they be able to get 4 unprotected 1sts? Minnesota keeps KAT, Russell, Edwards and Beasley.

[HotelVitale]

Their biggest mistake down the stretch of those hawks games was playing Ben at the point. They won games 2/6 because of Milton and Maxey in the fourth quarter. ).

Nah, they got some great buckets out of each guy because both happened to have one like 5 minute epic hot streak the whole series. Both guys had significant other chances and weren’t able to replicate that, or do much of anything (besides clang more jumpers like Tobias and Joel were doing). Just a couple of unsustainable hot hands, no more meaningful than when washed Lou Will played like peak Kobe against us for like 7 minutes in game 5. This reasoning doesn’t add up: “two Sixers players had one huge streak each whole playing point/combo guard, therefore any decent point/combo guard will be the answer for the Sixers 4th q woes.”

It wasn’t just that. The hack a Ben throws the Sixers offensive rhythm. Simmons missing free throws is one thing. But trying to take him out and putting him back throws everything out of whack. You lose momentum that way. And of course his passive nature just afraid to attack the basket. It’s not like Atlanta was any good defensively. Tons of opportunities.

I agree with some of that but it seems like a mishmash of complaints and I don't agree at all that throwing out an okay combo guard instead of Simmons fixes the problem. That honestly reads like simple scapegoating to me. Joel and Tobias repeatedly got themselves into perfectly good PO scoring type situations against ATL--good matchups, good spots on the floor, plenty of clock left, etc--and they didn't deliver, and it wasn't because Simmons' guy was doubling off of them or anything like that or because of hack-a-ben screwing up rhythm (rhythm in the 4th q's of the PO is way less of a thing anyway).

Harris is a jump shooter who can only sometimes create good looks--which is why he's always been like 30-50% lower volume than other max-level scoring wings--and Embiid relies a lot on cheapy fouls and tough jumpers, which are both tough to nail reliably when the D is locked in. Those are just built-in problems to our top options. I'm not a Simmons fan but my honest read of him is that, while he didn't contribute at all to solving our biggest issue (scoring in the 4th), I saw very little evidence that he was creating the issue.

[HotelVitale]

At this point, if I had to bet money on it, I'd say Simmons gets dealt to Indy for that Brogdon package. The offers aren't going to get any better.

Could happen since it checks a few necessary boxes (win now, can run offense, spreads floor), but Brogdon's health issues and age (29 in a few months) make it harder to ignore that he's always been pretty low volume and not a scoring/creating solution. The Bucks obviously used him as a role-player but the Pacers had him running the pn'r all day everyday and really focusing the offense around it, and he still didn't produce very much at all. He was top-10 in the league in both touches and amount of time per touch, so dude had the ball A LOT--and he still managed just 18/6 in 33mpg the last couple years. And even if you're just taking last year as your mark, he put up 21/6 in 35mpg despite being #5 in the league in touches and having offense run through him (in the Sabonis pn'r).

I know he's relatively efficient and helps in lots of ways, but the Sixers already have someone very like him in Tobias Harris and really need someone who can take over a little more. I know beggars can't be choosers, but again that combined with Brogdon's age and health might make it tough to go all in there. Guess it depends on what else would be part of the deal.

[rzzzzz]

Wait until camp, and then add someone to the Lehigh guy.

[NYG]

Cleveland Cavaliers get Tyler Herro for Collin Sexton
===
Houston Rockets get Taurean Prince for Eric Gordon
===
Miami Heat get Jaden McDaniels for Tyler Herro
===
Minnesota Timberwolves get Ben Simmons and Paul Reed for Jaden McDaniels, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince and picks
===
Philadelphia 76ers get Collin Sexton, Eric Gordon, Patrick Beverley and T'Wolves Picks for Ben Simmons and Paul Reed
===

[Sportfan73]

At this point, if I had to bet money on it, I'd say Simmons gets dealt to Indy for that Brogdon package. The offers aren't going to get any better.

Could happen since it checks a few necessary boxes (win now, can run offense, spreads floor), but Brogdon's health issues and age (29 in a few months) make it harder to ignore that he's always been pretty low volume and not a scoring/creating solution. The Bucks obviously used him as a role-player but the Pacers had him running the pn'r all day everyday and really focusing the offense around it, and he still didn't produce very much at all. He was top-10 in the league in both touches and amount of time per touch, so dude had the ball A LOT--and he still managed just 18/6 in 33mpg the last couple years. And even if you're just taking last year as your mark, he put up 21/6 in 35mpg despite being #5 in the league in touches and having offense run through him (in the Sabonis pn'r).

I know he's relatively efficient and helps in lots of ways, but the Sixers already have someone very like him in Tobias Harris and really need someone who can take over a little more. I know beggars can't be choosers, but again that combined with Brogdon's age and health might make it tough to go all in there. Guess it depends on what else would be part of the deal.

Yeah that’s where I get into th Brogdon Vs CJ debate. The fit with Maxey is worth taking into consideration too. It’s a tough call for me as far the two best win now guys we could most likely get

[Troubadour]

Cleveland Cavaliers get Tyler Herro for Collin Sexton
===
Houston Rockets get Taurean Prince for Eric Gordon
===
Miami Heat get Jaden McDaniels for Tyler Herro
===
Minnesota Timberwolves get Ben Simmons and Paul Reed for Jaden McDaniels, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince and picks
===
Philadelphia 76ers get Collin Sexton, Eric Gordon, Patrick Beverley and T'Wolves Picks for Ben Simmons and Paul Reed
===

Don't really understand why the Cavs settle for Herro in this trade when they are the ones delivering the most value to the Sixers for Ben Simmons.

[HotelVitale]

At this point, if I had to bet money on it, I'd say Simmons gets dealt to Indy for that Brogdon package. The offers aren't going to get any better.

Could happen since it checks a few necessary boxes (win now, can run offense, spreads floor), but Brogdon's health issues and age (29 in a few months) make it harder to ignore that he's always been pretty low volume and not a scoring/creating solution. The Bucks obviously used him as a role-player but the Pacers had him running the pn'r all day everyday and really focusing the offense around it, and he still didn't produce very much at all. He was top-10 in the league in both touches and amount of time per touch, so dude had the ball A LOT--and he still managed just 18/6 in 33mpg the last couple years. And even if you're just taking last year as your mark, he put up 21/6 in 35mpg despite being #5 in the league in touches and having offense run through him (in the Sabonis pn'r).

I know he's relatively efficient and helps in lots of ways, but the Sixers already have someone very like him in Tobias Harris and really need someone who can take over a little more. I know beggars can't be choosers, but again that combined with Brogdon's age and health might make it tough to go all in there. Guess it depends on what else would be part of the deal.

Yeah that’s where I get into th Brogdon Vs CJ debate. The fit with Maxey is worth taking into consideration too. It’s a tough call for me as far the two best win now guys we could most likely get

Yeah, strange to think how quickly stuff like that became the best options for a Simmons but I’m getting used to it. I’d go CJ in that trade since I think he’s better but Brogdons ability to run the offense (and the likelihood he’d come with other assets) keeps him in the running.

Also don’t think Maxey is worth factoring in just yet, if he breaks out that’s great but I don’t think he was good enough last year to plan around him. I like him but still think his game relies too much on tough shot making to be super bullish on him.

[the_process]

Better to hold on to Simmons for now if the best there is is Brogdon or McCollum. Those deals will still be there even if he holds out.

Morey has to adjust and go for a pick package. Kick the can down the road and be prepared when the next star asks out.

[Brick Layer]

Better to hold on to Simmons for now if the best there is is Brogdon or McCollum. Those deals will still be there even if he holds out.

Morey has to adjust and go for a pick package. Kick the can down the road and be prepared when the next star asks out.

I would like to see an NBA team draw a line in the sand and take a real hardline stance against a so called powerhouse agents like Rich Paul just to see how long it takes and who blinks first. If the 76ers can prevail, signed NBA contracts can actually become binding for both parties.

[Arsenal]

If behind Door #1 is Malcolm Brogdon, and behind Door #2 is CJ McCollum...

Then I'll have to choose Door #3: let him rot

[Brick Layer]

If behind Door #1 is Malcolm Brogdon, and behind Door #2 is CJ McCollum...

Then I'll have to choose Door #3: let him rot

Count me in as someone who says door number 3 or bust!

[Wolveswin]

Not saying it's the right deal, but purely value-wise... How many unprotected picks could Philly get from Minnesota in a McDaniels/Bev/Prince for Simmons swap?

I doubt Philly goes for anything like that. They'll likely go for the best player they can get right now to pair with Embiid with a pick or two included if possible.

Just thinking more of a multi-team type that starts with that and branches off. Would they be able to get 4 unprotected 1sts? Minnesota keeps KAT, Russell, Edwards and Beasley.

Wolves would not come close to 4 unprotected 1sts. That is crazy. More so also with McDaniels involved.

[clippertown]

I get that the Simmons situation is a tough one. In my opinion, Philly has Embid with two years on his deal and everything must be done to get him believing that the franchise has a plan, or it all falls apart when Joel leaves for nothing. The Simmons situation is unresolvable and best handled by giving him what he wants, with the goal of making the team more competitive in the next TWO years, not for the long term future. Embid is a special talent and no matter what he needs to stay a Sixer.

Since Ben is demanding a trade to just three CA teams, this puts all other teams in a complex situation. If they trade young talent for Ben and he is unhappy, then they need to deal with locker room issues - basically inheriting Philly’s problems at the sacrifice of their own future. Sending Ben to Minny for example, would cost the Wolves a fortune and they would be guaranteed to lose him for nothing in four years, which won’t be good value. Small market teams want players that want them, especially when it costs a third of the cap. They don’t want players that can’t wait to leave, harming the team culture.

If GSW want Ben, they have the best assets. Wiseman and Wiggins (plus a few picks) have the greatest value, but does it really work for either team? For GSW, they have to figure out how to win with both Draymond and Ben on the floor. They also lose their best SF with nobody to replace him but Simmons (who would be a terrible SF). For Philly, they have to pay for Wiggins who won’t move the needle and get a backup C that is also not needed. The picks don’t help now, which is the goal.

For the Clippers, they can offer Morris Sr, Kennard, Mann and Reggie should they wait till Dec 15 or replace Reggie with Bledsoe (removing Kennard) if they want to act now. Whilst this offer is not at the correct value for Ben, it does actually help Philly compete today. Morris Sr is the perfect PF to play with Embid due to his ability to spread the floor and rebound. Kennard is a specialist at spreading the floor and distributing and is only 24. Mann is a brilliant defender with solid ability to hit the 3 from the corner. Reggie can handle the PG duties and step up under pressure. Even Bledsoe can return to the Bucks and be a solid presence, if that’s what the team desires. Overall, the Sixers are better immediately and that keeps Embid happier.

The Lakers have nothing to offer.

I get that in a perfect situation, Ben is worth an all-star return but considering the numerous issues, my question is whether the Sixers would become a better team this season if they traded Ben to the Clippers - regardless of long term value.

[zimpy27]

Simmons+Reed for LeVert+Sabonis

Is this value close?

[Sportfan73]

I get that the Simmons situation is a tough one. In my opinion, Philly has Embid with two years on his deal and everything must be done to get him believing that the franchise has a plan, or it all falls apart when Joel leaves for nothing. The Simmons situation is unresolvable and best handled by giving him what he wants, with the goal of making the team more competitive in the next TWO years, not for the long term future. Embid is a special talent and no matter what he needs to stay a Sixer.

Since Ben is demanding a trade to just three CA teams, this puts all other teams in a complex situation. If they trade young talent for Ben and he is unhappy, then they need to deal with locker room issues - basically inheriting Philly’s problems at the sacrifice of their own future. Sending Ben to Minny for example, would cost the Wolves a fortune and they would be guaranteed to lose him for nothing in four years, which won’t be good value. Small market teams want players that want them, especially when it costs a third of the cap. They don’t want players that can’t wait to leave, harming the team culture.

If GSW want Ben, they have the best assets. Wiseman and Wiggins (plus a few picks) have the greatest value, but does it really work for either team? For GSW, they have to figure out how to win with both Draymond and Ben on the floor. They also lose their best SF with nobody to replace him but Simmons (who would be a terrible SF). For Philly, they have to pay for Wiggins who won’t move the needle and get a backup C that is also not needed. The picks don’t help now, which is the goal.

For the Clippers, they can offer Morris Sr, Kennard, Mann and Reggie should they wait till Dec 15 or replace Reggie with Bledsoe (removing Kennard) if they want to act now. Whilst this offer is not at the correct value for Ben, it does actually help Philly compete today. Morris Sr is the perfect PF to play with Embid due to his ability to spread the floor and rebound. Kennard is a specialist at spreading the floor and distributing and is only 24. Mann is a brilliant defender with solid ability to hit the 3 from the corner. Reggie can handle the PG duties and step up under pressure. Even Bledsoe can return to the Bucks and be a solid presence, if that’s what the team desires. Overall, the Sixers are better immediately and that keeps Embid happier.

The Lakers have nothing to offer.

I get that in a perfect situation, Ben is worth an all-star return but considering the numerous issues, my question is whether the Sixers would become a better team this season if they traded Ben to the Clippers - regardless of long term value.

Embiid signed his super max last month

[BoogieTime]

I get that the Simmons situation is a tough one. In my opinion, Philly has Embid with two years on his deal and everything must be done to get him believing that the franchise has a plan, or it all falls apart when Joel leaves for nothing. The Simmons situation is unresolvable and best handled by giving him what he wants, with the goal of making the team more competitive in the next TWO years, not for the long term future. Embid is a special talent and no matter what he needs to stay a Sixer.

Since Ben is demanding a trade to just three CA teams, this puts all other teams in a complex situation. If they trade young talent for Ben and he is unhappy, then they need to deal with locker room issues - basically inheriting Philly’s problems at the sacrifice of their own future. Sending Ben to Minny for example, would cost the Wolves a fortune and they would be guaranteed to lose him for nothing in four years, which won’t be good value. Small market teams want players that want them, especially when it costs a third of the cap. They don’t want players that can’t wait to leave, harming the team culture.

If GSW want Ben, they have the best assets. Wiseman and Wiggins (plus a few picks) have the greatest value, but does it really work for either team? For GSW, they have to figure out how to win with both Draymond and Ben on the floor. They also lose their best SF with nobody to replace him but Simmons (who would be a terrible SF). For Philly, they have to pay for Wiggins who won’t move the needle and get a backup C that is also not needed. The picks don’t help now, which is the goal.

For the Clippers, they can offer Morris Sr, Kennard, Mann and Reggie should they wait till Dec 15 or replace Reggie with Bledsoe (removing Kennard) if they want to act now. Whilst this offer is not at the correct value for Ben, it does actually help Philly compete today. Morris Sr is the perfect PF to play with Embid due to his ability to spread the floor and rebound. Kennard is a specialist at spreading the floor and distributing and is only 24. Mann is a brilliant defender with solid ability to hit the 3 from the corner. Reggie can handle the PG duties and step up under pressure. Even Bledsoe can return to the Bucks and be a solid presence, if that’s what the team desires. Overall, the Sixers are better immediately and that keeps Embid happier.

The Lakers have nothing to offer.

I get that in a perfect situation, Ben is worth an all-star return but considering the numerous issues, my question is whether the Sixers would become a better team this season if they traded Ben to the Clippers - regardless of long term value.

The Kings are part of the three

And I hope where he wants to play figures into what opposing teams will offer. I also hope Rich Paul will have sway over that as well