Random Rumor Thread: Post em here

[marcush]

Any time I see reports like that OKC deal where 5 meaningless players are bundled up with one high level assets like the Brooklyn pick, you just know it's not going to happen. A team like OKC is not taking on 5 players, they have their own guys they are developing.

Keep it simple, a Brooklyn pick (ie the lottery pick) & Crowder (ie the good starter), it sounds more realistic.

[Smitty731]

Ok so a few things to address:

I'm not in Las Vegas anymore but text and DMs still work here in FL just fine.

Also, I have NO sources with Boston. Everything I am getting is coming from other places. But I trust all of them. I just don't have enough confirmation to take it public.

The Griffin trade is far more likely than the Westbrook trade, but Boston is attempting to go big and put together a team that can compete with Cleveland and Golden State.

Being in FL, do you hear anything about the Heat?

We had a couple of insiders on the board, but they have gotten less & less active since the huge FA in 2010 (understandably so).

Not really. I'm up in Orlando, so I don't run by many Miami guys. Sorry.

[bondom34]

Presti is no longer a top GM if that is all he gets for westbrook.

If you accept that he can't risk losing him for nothing, who else is going to/able to offer more? Westbrook's market is also suppressed given the prevalent belief he's bolting for LA.

I like what he got for Serge better, and Serge is a free agent next year too.

I don't buy this for other reasons I've told Smitty, but this return would be laughable.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

I think it's possible, but that seems light value wise, especially for OKC. BOS have other assets that they can afford to throw in imo.

LAC IN: Rights to J Brown, LAC 2019 First returned, Rozier, Amir, Jerebko, Zeller S&T
LAC OUT: Blake, Pierce, Stone, Dawson.

Jordan/Zeller/Speights
Amir/Jerebko/Bass/Johnson
Brown/Wes/LRMM
JJ/Crawford
CP3/Rivers/Felton/Rozier

OKC IN: BOS 2017 First (with BKN swap), BKN 2018 First, Smart, Hunter, Mickey, Rights to Yabusele & Zizic, Holland & Dawson (both waived).
OKC OUT: Russ

BOS IN: Russ, Blake, Pierce, Stone.

Horford/FA/Stone
Blake/Olnyk/Bentil
Crowder/Pierce/Nader
Bradley/FA/Young
Russ/IT/Jackson

[Andre Roberstan]

Presti is no longer a top GM if that is all he gets for westbrook.

If you accept that he can't risk losing him for nothing, who else is going to/able to offer more? Westbrook's market is also suppressed given the prevalent belief he's bolting for LA.

I like what he got for Serge better, and Serge is a free agent next year too.

I don't buy this for other reasons I've told Smitty, but this return would be laughable.

I still don't know if they trade him, but the return is OK at least.

The two 1sts are worth getting. I don't like Smart much, especially considering how many guys we have who aren't good shooters, but I was a big fan of Hunter coming into last year's draft. The rest is filler.

You could do worse. Honestly, the main part that they need to get if they trade Westbrook is a top 4 first-rounder next year. Add value as needed.

[Sportfan73]

Any real names you hear tossed around coming back for Okafor or Noel?

[bondom34]

If you accept that he can't risk losing him for nothing, who else is going to/able to offer more? Westbrook's market is also suppressed given the prevalent belief he's bolting for LA.

I like what he got for Serge better, and Serge is a free agent next year too.

I don't buy this for other reasons I've told Smitty, but this return would be laughable.

I still don't know if they trade him, but the return is OK at least.

The two 1sts are worth getting. I don't like Smart much, especially considering how many guys we have who aren't good shooters, but I was a big fan of Hunter coming into last year's draft. The rest is filler.

You could do worse. Honestly, the main part that they need to get if they trade Westbrook is a top 4 first-rounder next year. Add value as needed.

Problem is that first is still unknown. Reminds me of the Toronto pick from Harden. Dropped to 13.

[Andre Roberstan]

I like what he got for Serge better, and Serge is a free agent next year too.

I don't buy this for other reasons I've told Smitty, but this return would be laughable.

I still don't know if they trade him, but the return is OK at least.

The two 1sts are worth getting. I don't like Smart much, especially considering how many guys we have who aren't good shooters, but I was a big fan of Hunter coming into last year's draft. The rest is filler.

You could do worse. Honestly, the main part that they need to get if they trade Westbrook is a top 4 first-rounder next year. Add value as needed.

Problem is that first is still unknown. Reminds me of the Toronto pick from Harden. Dropped to 13.

The Nets pick is in no way, shape or form going to drop to 13.

[bondom34]

I still don't know if they trade him, but the return is OK at least.

The two 1sts are worth getting. I don't like Smart much, especially considering how many guys we have who aren't good shooters, but I was a big fan of Hunter coming into last year's draft. The rest is filler.

You could do worse. Honestly, the main part that they need to get if they trade Westbrook is a top 4 first-rounder next year. Add value as needed.

Problem is that first is still unknown. Reminds me of the Toronto pick from Harden. Dropped to 13.

The Nets pick is in no way, shape or form going to drop to 13.

With Presti's luck it will.

But even if it drops to say 6-8, there's nothing else there remotely worth it. Smart doesn't interest me, the rest is a bunch of stuff.

[NBADraft2003]

Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

Could Jerebko get waived by OKC then return back to Boston?

[sportscrazy]

Problem is that first is still unknown. Reminds me of the Toronto pick from Harden. Dropped to 13.

The Nets pick is in no way, shape or form going to drop to 13.

With Presti's luck it will.

But even if it drops to say 6-8, there's nothing else there remotely worth it. Smart doesn't interest me, the rest is a bunch of stuff.

Yeah, considering the Nets finished 9th in the East in 2014-15 and 7th in the East in 2013-14, they're only one year removed from being decent. If RHJ's development hits right, Brook Lopez stays healthy and Jeremy Lin can give them solid production at point guard as Atkinson coaches the heck out of the team, this isn't a sure-fire top 5 pick in 2017.

Remember, what Smitty is saying still seems in the posture and negotiation portion of talks. I think the final version of a Blake Griffin AND Russell Westbrook to Boston deal looks a lot worse for Boston where the Thunder get Jaylen Brown and the 2017 Nets pick and the Clippers get Amir Johnson, Jae Crowder and the 2018 Nets pick. I could see the Kings being a fourth team here that send Rudy Gay to Boston to fill in the hole at small forward.

If Boston lands Rudy Gay, Paul Pierce, Blake Griffin AND Russell Westbrook without losing Al Horford, Isaiah Thomas or Avery Bradley and knows some ring chasers will come to the Celtics for depth, they would need to make it happen, extensions or not, and I think that's where talks get to before we see a completed version of this.

[sportscrazy]

After crunching the numbers, I could see a final version that looks like this...

Boston Celtics get:
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin
Rudy Gay
Paul Pierce

(Celtics get awesome without giving up Terry Rozier, Kelly Olynyk, Al Horford, Avery Bradley or Isaiah Thomas.)

Los Angeles Clippers get:
Jae Crowder
Amir Johnson
Kosta Koufos
Marcus Smart
2018 Boston Celtics First Round Draft Pick
2019 Los Angeles Clippers First Round Draft Pick

(The Clippers balance their team really well and return on of their own picks plus add a new one in the process.)

Oklahoma City Thunder get:
Jonas Jerebko
James Young
Branden Dawson
The Draft Rights to Jaylen Brown
2017 Brooklyn Nets First Round Draft Pick

(Russell Westbrook With No Extension > Kevin Love With No Extension. So let's say Thaddeus Young is worth the 20th Overall Pick in the draft. Andrew Wiggins > Jaylen Brown, but the 2017 Nets First > 20th Overall Pick. Anthony Bennett is a wash with Jerebko and Young IMO.)

Sacramento Kings get:
Tyler Zeller (Signed and Traded to a 1 Year, $15 Million contract)
The Draft Rights to Demetrius Jackson
2019 Memphis Grizzlies First Round Draft Pick

(Add a young back-up point guard and future first round pick from Joerger's old team via Boston to take on an overpriced one year deal for Rudy Gay. Win for Zeller, right place, right time.)

[Diop]

Tyler Zeller says yes whilst trying to hide his erection

[MoneyTalks41890]

Problem is that first is still unknown. Reminds me of the Toronto pick from Harden. Dropped to 13.

The Nets pick is in no way, shape or form going to drop to 13.

With Presti's luck it will.

But even if it drops to say 6-8, there's nothing else there remotely worth it. Smart doesn't interest me, the rest is a bunch of stuff.

I agree the pick can't be the headlining value in a Russ trade. IT and Brown should be IMO.

[sportscrazy]

Tyler Zeller says yes whilst trying to hide his erection

Yeah, Zeller would get to see what Timofey Mozgov money feels like for a year to make my version work cap wise.

[aim2please]

I like what he got for Serge better, and Serge is a free agent next year too.

I don't buy this for other reasons I've told Smitty, but this return would be laughable.

I think most people would agree that Ibaka trade was a huge overpay and a massive win for Thunder. You can't look at one trade, which your team obviously won, and say well, we're gonna win every trade from now on because we won that one.

I understand if you would rather keep him and see what happens next summer than make a bad deal, but measuring offers for Westbrook with Ibaka deal is wrong.

I would be shocked if Russ is traded to Boston. Ainge said multiple times that Nets' picks are only available for players who are on long term contracts.

It only takes one dummy, maybe someone is willing to do the deal without a wink-wink from Russ but such move can set your franchise back ten years.

[HartfordWhalers]

Tyler Zeller (Signed and Traded to a 1 Year, $15 Million contract)

Sign and trades need to be 3 year deals. The last 2 could be unguaranteed, so maybe thats not a big fix.

Sign and trades in this situation only get to count as half the salary for the outgoing team, so Boston would only be able to count a 15m Zeller as 7.5m outgoing salary for matching purposes. Without peeling through your math, I would assume this is an issue here.

[sportscrazy]

Tyler Zeller (Signed and Traded to a 1 Year, $15 Million contract)

Sign and trades need to be 3 year deals. The last 2 could be unguaranteed, so maybe thats not a big fix.

Sign and trades in this situation only get to count as half the salary for the outgoing team, so Boston would only be able to count a 15m Zeller as 7.5m outgoing salary for matching purposes. Without peeling through your math, I would assume this is an issue here.

I blame Keith Van Horn and his involvement in the Jason Kidd trade for ruining my proposed deal (I'm sure it played into creating that rule.)

While I'm at it, I blame Keith Van Horn and his involvement in the Latrell Sprewell trade for ruining my Knicks.

[aim2please]

I blame Keith Van Horn and his involvement in the Jason Kidd trade for ruining my proposed deal (I'm sure it played into creating that rule.)

While I'm at it, I blame Keith Van Horn and his involvement in the Latrell Sprewell trade for ruining my Knicks.

Van Horn is responsible for a rule change that says a team is allowed to sign and trade a player ONLY if he was on their roster last season. Before that, you only had to have someone's bird rights, no matter if they went to Europe 5 years ago, or basically retired.

[sportscrazy]

Attempt #2 (Agreed to in principle, but completed when Jaylen Brown can be traded after signing a contract):

Boston Celtics get:
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin
Paul Pierce

Los Angeles Clippers get:
Jae Crowder
Avery Bradley
Amir Johnson
Their Own Future Pick Returned via Boston

Oklahoma City Thunder get:
Jaylen Brown
Jonas Jerebko
2017 Brooklyn Nets First Round Draft Pick via Boston

Follow-up: James Young, R.J. Hunter, John Holland and 2019 Memphis Grizzlies First Returned for Tony Allen