Any interest in Anthony Morrow?

[NetsForce]

RealGM Warriors board liked the Crawford and Jackson deals after they occurred prior to their occurrence the perceived value of Crawford and Jackson by the most vocal Warriors fans was SIGNIFICANTLY higher.

[turk3d]

I'm not trying to be offensive, and I post this because I care about the board. I'm sorry if this makes you defensive or angry.

The bottom line is whether you're argueing with posters from 29 other neutral teams, or argueing what you front office will do, or argueing the trade value and projections of your young players -- you guys get it wrong.

On the RealGM trade board we try to have legitimate discussion about trade value, but the most boisterous of you constantly overvalue your guys, and over-estimate your youth, and spin us fairy tales that never come true in real life.

Fairy tales may may be fun for you guys to tell, but most of us here want to have a discussion based on reality.

I think you guys could improve your posting, and a little self-policing of the most ludicrous of posts would benefit everyone here.

First off Shrink, it's not 29 other teams, that's a gross exaggeration, even for you. Unless you're making a general comment, then it's totally wrong. Believe it or not, many posters from other teams agree with a lot of what we post, specifically towards the ridiculous offers posted in Golden State trades (if you were keeping a count, then you'd know this, if not, then you shouldn't be making these claims).

I don't care what you say, trade value is a totally a subjective subject (that's why it's called a subject) and 90% of posters will value their players more than they do of other teams. What's so wrong with this? You're going to be way more familiar with the players you follow on a regular basis than the ones you don't. This is why guys like Nick ask some of you did you see the player play. How can you assess some ones skill when you don't see better than someone who does? The hypocrisy is, we're told how much we overrate our players (implying you don't overrate yours) and then you turnaround and want to trade for the same players we're overrating.

And I guess you (among others) seem to think we should rollover. Most of the off-the wall trades I've seen posted are by non-Warriors fans (and that's the ones which involve the Warriors too). You should check it out a little more closely. Show me a Homer trade that I posted and some of the other Warrior posters have. Maybe you're confusing those posters with our fanbase. Hyperbole is another thing, but that's a two way street. I saw a recent thread started (by BW32 I think) who's from the Warrior's board on a Durant trade, but he prefaced it by saying it was ridiculous. Even this was in response to a non-Warrior poster who I believe "dared" him to do it if I'm not mistaken.

Warrior fans are pretty even tempered for the most part (there's always a few exceptions to every board I'm sure) but some of us don't like it when people show the kind of animosity it seems towards our team and our fanbase and so we respond accordingly. We defend our players the same way any true blue fan would and should defend theirs.

[gswhoopsman]

RealGM Warriors board liked the Crawford and Jackson deals after they occurred prior to their occurrence the perceived value of Crawford and Jackson by the most vocal Warriors fans was SIGNIFICANTLY higher.

And Crawford's in the race for sixth man of the year.

And Jackson's leading a team to its first ever playoff berth.

And no, the perceived value of Crawford and Jackson by the most vocal warriors fans was NOT significantly higher. We were proposing jackson for Z, and Crawford for expirings on this board for the longest time.

[gswhoopsman]

blaming the front office for making poor decisions (If the front office has made so many poor decisions then how come you have all these great young players? It's sort of a catch-22 isn't it?)

How is that a catch-22? Hypothetically, front offices that make bad contract or trade moves (not commenting on the warriors here, just in general) can't draft well? They're two different departments: drafting gilbert arenas isn't mutually exclusive with letting him walk for no reason.

[St.Nick]

Warriors fans FTMFW

[Coxy]

blaming the front office for making poor decisions (If the front office has made so many poor decisions then how come you have all these great young players? It's sort of a catch-22 isn't it?)

How is that a catch-22? Hypothetically, front offices that make bad contract or trade moves (not commenting on the warriors here, just in general) can't draft well? They're two different departments: drafting gilbert arenas isn't mutually exclusive with letting him walk for no reason.

Owned.

[Krapinsky]

blaming the front office for making poor decisions (If the front office has made so many poor decisions then how come you have all these great young players? It's sort of a catch-22 isn't it?)

How is that a catch-22? Hypothetically, front offices that make bad contract or trade moves (not commenting on the warriors here, just in general) can't draft well? They're two different departments: drafting gilbert arenas isn't mutually exclusive with letting him walk for no reason.

Owned.

Oh, I didn't know I was speaking hypothetically. I'm pretty sure we were talking about the Warriors.

I'm starting to think Coxy, St. Nick, and Turk are the same posters. Gswhoopsman is the little brother that's desperate to be accepted. It's pretty impresive that you guys need four people to take on arguments.

Let's recap shall we --

Shrink -- You're homers. You overate your players. Past deal are evidence because in each deal Golden State posters demanded much more than the players were actually traded for.

Warriors fans/turk -- So, our front office makes bad decisions.

Really? It's the front office? The fact is these players were on the trade market and that's the best offer they got from 29 teams. That's the players market value. You're subjective belief that the players are worth more than they are worth on the open market is what makes you a homer. It's proof that you overrated the players.

If I have a share of Apple stock and I sell it for $50 when I think it's worth $55. Is it worth $55 or is it worth $50?

And in regard to my catch-22: another collateral issue picked up by a different Warriors poster, surprise. Time and time again you see an argument you lose so you resort to finding a small part of the argument that you can still argue against, then attempt to declare victory. Owned!

Nevertheless, lets look at the front office decisions since you guys last made the playoffs.

Am I missing something here? What are these horrible front office decisions that the Warriors front office made? Was it trading Steven Jackson (he asked out, right?)? Trading Crawford (yeah he was a great fit with Monta)? Trading Bellinelli (no value)? Letting Baron walk (look at his horrible contract)? Signing Maggette instead (good decision)?

I fail to see a move since your last playoff team that has been all that bad by the front office. if you had all those players on your team would you be in the playoffs? Probably not. (feel free to attempt to argue this collateral issue gswhoops, i know you can't resist). So you can blame the front office all you want, but the fact of the matter is they haven't made too many bad decisions since the last time you made the playoffs. So what's left? Basically the players drafted and the players currently on your roster brought in from these trades. Isn't the roster representative of all the important decisions the front office made? Well it turns out, apparently, everyone on your roster is better than what posters from other fan bases think. This my friends is a catch 22. You blame the front office and then tout your players.

[Krapinsky]

blaming the front office for making poor decisions (If the front office has made so many poor decisions then how come you have all these great young players? It's sort of a catch-22 isn't it?)

How is that a catch-22? Hypothetically, front offices that make bad contract or trade moves (not commenting on the warriors here, just in general) can't draft well? They're two different departments: drafting gilbert arenas isn't mutually exclusive with letting him walk for no reason.

Owned.

So now we're going back to '03? 7 years ago? Why stop there. We had C Webb! We had Spreewell! It's the front office's fault! This somehow proves the Biedrins is worth more than you think!

Do you even know the context of the discussion here? Try to do more than to just skim for part you don't like.

[Relentless88]

So now we're going back to '03? 7 years ago? Why stop there. We had C Webb! We had Spreewell! It's the front office's fault! This somehow proves the Biedrins is worth more than you think!

Do you even know the context of the discussion here? Try to do more than to just skim for part you don't like.

I'd watch out if I were you. Pretty soon he's going to pull out his "I don't care what you say, you're a teenager" card.

[shrink]

To call my OPINION a fairy tale, and to call your OPINION a reality is pretty pretentious.

So does it matter that your opinions are over-valueing again and again and again? POB. Diogu. Bellinelli. Kurtz. Heck, I think this year I've seen over-valueing of all these guys:

Monta Ellis
Andris Biedrins
Corey Maggette
Ronny Turiaf
Kelenna Azubuike
Stephen Curry
Brandan Wright
Anthony Randolph
Anthony Morrow

Whenever a GSW player is actually moved, and we see his real world value, you guys are always wrong. So what's the value here to listen to your fairy tales if you always get it wrong?

For example, I could post hundreds of times that Blount = Amare, and sya "that's OK - its my opinion." Even if it was, its an opinion that's valueless and just wastes the readers' time.

Take a hint from reality. When you constantly get it wrong ... make a dang adjustment, so you start getting things right. Opinions that are always wrong are not valuable.

[shrink]

We defend our players the same way any true blue fan would and should defend theirs.

Again, don't you see how this is more homer-speak, an attitude that reduces the truth?

I've advocated that when you see a poster from your own fanbase say a preposterous statement, you might want to say something, not defend his view like a true blue fan. You can see this "us-against-them" attitude in GSW posters in this very thread.

We aren't the front offices or in any way affiliated with the real teams. We're just people who want an honest discussion. You aren't "defending your players" on an internet message board.

[Relentless88]

To call my OPINION a fairy tale, and to call your OPINION a reality is pretty pretentious.

So does it matter that your opinions are over-valueing again and again and again? POB. Diogu. Bellinelli. Kurtz. Heck, I think this year I've seen over-valueing of all these guys:

Monta Ellis
Andris Biedrins
Corey Maggette
Ronny Turiaf
Kelenna Azubuike
Stephen Curry
Brandan Wright
Anthony Randolph
Anthony Morrow

Whenever a GSW player is actually moved, and we see his real world value, you guys are always wrong. So what's the value here to listen to your fairy tales if you always get it wrong?

For example, I could post hundreds of times that Blount = Amare, and sya "that's OK - its my opinion." Even if it was, its an opinion that's valueless and just wastes the readers' time.

Take a hint from reality. When you constantly get it wrong ... make a dang adjustment, so you start getting things right. Opinions that are always wrong are not valuable.

You forgot Anthony Tolliver. He is a keeper.

[turk3d]

To call my OPINION a fairy tale, and to call your OPINION a reality is pretty pretentious.

So does it matter that your opinions are over-valueing again and again and again? POB. Diogu. Bellinelli. Kurtz. Heck, I think this year I've seen over-valueing of all these guys:

Monta Ellis
Andris Biedrins
Corey Maggette
Ronny Turiaf
Kelenna Azubuike
Stephen Curry
Brandan Wright
Anthony Randolph
Anthony Morrow

Whenever a GSW player is actually moved, and we see his real world value, you guys are always wrong. So what's the value here to listen to your fairy tales if you always get it wrong?

For example, I could post hundreds of times that Blount = Amare, and sya "that's OK - its my opinion." Even if it was, its an opinion that's valueless and just wastes the readers' time.

Take a hint from reality. When you constantly get it wrong ... make a dang adjustment, so you start getting things right. Opinions that are always wrong are not valuable.

How is saying you'd "like" a late first for Morrow equivalent to saying that Blount = Amare???? That's quite an exaggeration and a terrible analogy, even for you Shrink. You equate an absolute zero reality to a reasonable assessment. Are you sure that asking for a high #1 pick for Morrow is anywhere close to Blount for Amare? Big hit on that one.

[NetsForce]

If by high #1 you mean a lottery pick... There is no team that would give a lottery pick for Anthony Morrow.

[turk3d]

Oh, I didn't know I was speaking hypothetically. I'm pretty sure we were talking about the Warriors.

I'm starting to think Coxy, St. Nick, and Turk are the same posters. Gswhoopsman is the little brother that's desperate to be accepted. It's pretty impresive that you guys need four people to take on arguments.

No Gswhoopsman is just as annoyed at the rest of us for some of the homerific trades you guys put up on the board and voicing HIS opinion, not the rest of us. It just happens to coincide with the rest of us on this particular issue. We have our differences on quite a few things (Gswhoopman and myself) so wrong, once more
.
I'm beginning to think that you, Shrink, Chronz, MrOnline and Relentless are the same posters (just not sure which one of you are the little brother, you perhaps?). We respond to questions about the Warriors because we are Warriors fans. What's your excuse? I noticed you're a Clippers fan. Why don't you ever talk about them? Are you that ashamed?

Let's recap shall we --

Shrink -- You're homers. You overate your players. Past deal are evidence because in each deal Golden State posters demanded much more than the players were actually traded for.

You're the hypocritical homers. You think everyone's players are worse than yours and then you want to trade for ours. Fact is, most of you homers claimed that we would get zippo (nada) for Crawford and Jackson. You claimed they were UNTRADEABLE and wouldn't even get any expirings. Then most of you were shocked when we got what we did. We got more than most of you said we would get. Wrong again.

Warriors fans/turk -- So, our front office makes bad decisions.

Really? It's the front office? The fact is these players were on the trade market and that's the best offer they got from 29 teams. That's the players market value. You're subjective belief that the players are worth more than they are worth on the open market is what makes you a homer. It's proof that you overrated the players.

There you go again with another one of your bad, bad arguments/analogies.

If I have a share of Apple stock and I sell it for $50 when I think it's worth $55. Is it worth $55 or is it worth $50?

LOL @ that analogy. Here's a better one. We sell our apple stock to you @ 25 and then it immediately goes up for the next 6 months until it reaches 50. Did we make a good deal? Yes, for you. It's your GM that made the good deal especially since we paid for that asset prior to that (Al Harrington who's an expiring this year). We sold and you bought and now you've reaped a windfall profit. Crawford becomes 6th man of the year and plays a big part in the Atlanta playoff success. The Warriors maybe don't win 20 games. Atlanta GM for the win, Warrior GM for the loss. How did they screw up and why did they have to sell so low? Nellie announced to the world that they didn't want him coming back dropping his value when it was totally unnecessary.

Next: Same thing with Jackson low. Jackson has a career year and helps lead Charlotte into the playoffs for the first time in their history. Now he's worth twice what we sold him for. What an investment by the Charlotte GM. He's a shrewd businessman. Ours is a moron. So what did the FO do wrong? As you pointed out, Jackson said he wanted out. Yes he did. But what they did wrong was they extended his contract to 4 years when he only had two left, otherwise he would have been an expiring this year.

Hard to trade? Yes, with a 4 year deal but not with a 2 (which is what he had when he got the extension. There was no reason to extend him other than stupidity, I repeat absolutely no reason to do this. Our VP went over our GM (Mullin) and did this on his own. Jackson didn't even have to use an agent. But of course you wouldn't know this unless you were a Warriors fan. These are facts Krap, not conjecture or hypotheticals which you and some of your cohorts so frequently use.

And in regard to my catch-22: another collateral issue picked up by a different Warriors poster, surprise. Time and time again you see an argument you lose so you resort to finding a small part of the argument that you can still argue against, then attempt to declare victory. Owned!

If I were you, I'd quit while I wasn't behind too much. I'm not going to address this one, because it wasn't specifically me that said any of this (I know you and others like to put Warriors fans all in the same pot) but that too, is horse pattooty. Krapinsky, you are pretty bright guy, and you're a good poster, but whenever you get into these pissing contests, you do yourself a disservice as well as everyone else on the board.. You're better off trying to be honest, and to stay away from the one-up-manship. You'd be a lot more valuable to this board imo and it really isn't necessary.

Nevertheless, lets look at the front office decisions since you guys last made the playoffs.

Am I missing something here? What are these horrible front office decisions that the Warriors front office made? Was it trading Steven Jackson (he asked out, right?)? Trading Crawford (yeah he was a great fit with Monta)? Trading Bellinelli (no value)? Letting Baron walk (look at his horrible contract)? Signing Maggette instead (good decision)?

Although it's hindsight, both Crawford and Belinelli would have been good to have this season due to all the injuries we encountered, with Belinelli by far the biggest mistake imo. We've talked about some of the others here and elsewhere so I'm not going to repeat them although if you really want to here it again I will.

I fail to see a move since your last playoff team that has been all that bad by the front office. if you had all those players on your team would you be in the playoffs? Probably not. (feel free to attempt to argue this collateral issue gswhoops, i know you can't resist). So you can blame the front office all you want, but the fact of the matter is they haven't made too many bad decisions since the last time you made the playoffs. So what's left? Basically the players drafted and the players currently on your roster brought in from these trades. Isn't the roster representative of all the important decisions the front office made? Well it turns out, apparently, everyone on your roster is better than what posters from other fan bases think. This my friends is a catch 22. You blame the front office and then tout your players.

We're talking the last 16 years with few exceptions. We let a superstar go in Arenas and kept Richardson (although this was the old regime). We drafted Mike Dunleavy over Amare Stoudemire. We drafted Joe Smith over Antonio McDyess. We drafted Todd Fuller over Kobe Bryant. Current regime: We let Baron walk and signed Corey Maggette (who although having an excellent year this year, was horrible last year and still has another 3 years to go on his contract). We traded a #1 draft pick in Belinelli for a washed up Devean George.

We decided we wanted to move Crawford but announced to the world we didn't want him back (previously mentioned). We had two veteran players quit on us (Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson). You might ask yourself why. Jackson has said it was because he didn't believe the organization wants to win. Andris Biedrins while in Latvia in an interview told the Latvian press that he and the team was told by Nelson early last season that the team was not trying to win. Need I say any more?

Let me make one more suggestion to you and some of these other posters. I don't recommend attempting to try and show you know more about a team than that teams fans. This is basically what you're trying attempting to do and you're trying to justify it by using the "homer" tag. You don't see us Warrior fans telling you that we know more about your team and your players than you do because we read stat scores. Maybe we know a little, but we are not claiming to be "experts" on your teams. I don't think you would like it if we did and then claimed that when you didn't agree that you were "homers". Maybe you should think about that a little.

One of the things I really like about the forum is that it enables me to find out things about other teams and get certain insights that I wouldn't get from my local paper. I would think that you found the same invaluable but if when we give you our honest opinions, and you flat out reject them and claim we're being "homers" then perhaps you really don't want our insights. That's ok if that's the case and you probably won't be getting them much any more. I'm done.

[gswhoopsman]

Oh, I didn't know I was speaking hypothetically. I'm pretty sure we were talking about the Warriors.

I'm starting to think Coxy, St. Nick, and Turk are the same posters. Gswhoopsman is the little brother that's desperate to be accepted. It's pretty impresive that you guys need four people to take on arguments.

Let's recap shall we --

Shrink -- You're homers. You overate your players. Past deal are evidence because in each deal Golden State posters demanded much more than the players were actually traded for.

Warriors fans/turk -- So, our front office makes bad decisions.

Really? It's the front office? The fact is these players were on the trade market and that's the best offer they got from 29 teams. That's the players market value. You're subjective belief that the players are worth more than they are worth on the open market is what makes you a homer. It's proof that you overrated the players.

If I have a share of Apple stock and I sell it for $50 when I think it's worth $55. Is it worth $55 or is it worth $50?

And in regard to my catch-22: another collateral issue picked up by a different Warriors poster, surprise. Time and time again you see an argument you lose so you resort to finding a small part of the argument that you can still argue against, then attempt to declare victory. Owned!

Nevertheless, lets look at the front office decisions since you guys last made the playoffs.

Am I missing something here? What are these horrible front office decisions that the Warriors front office made? Was it trading Steven Jackson (he asked out, right?)? Trading Crawford (yeah he was a great fit with Monta)? Trading Bellinelli (no value)? Letting Baron walk (look at his horrible contract)? Signing Maggette instead (good decision)?

I fail to see a move since your last playoff team that has been all that bad by the front office. if you had all those players on your team would you be in the playoffs? Probably not. (feel free to attempt to argue this collateral issue gswhoops, i know you can't resist). So you can blame the front office all you want, but the fact of the matter is they haven't made too many bad decisions since the last time you made the playoffs. So what's left? Basically the players drafted and the players currently on your roster brought in from these trades. Isn't the roster representative of all the important decisions the front office made? Well it turns out, apparently, everyone on your roster is better than what posters from other fan bases think. This my friends is a catch 22. You blame the front office and then tout your players.

The fact that you can't "see any bad moves" by the warriors front office since the playoff run proves how fit you are to judge them.

Signing Maggette = bad decision. Extending Stephen Jackson instead of letting him expire was a CRIPPLING move for our franchise; an expiring jackson fetches a lot more value than an old one on a fresh deal. Moving Al Harrington for crawford instead of sitting him down/waiting for him to expire or waiting for a better deal. Trading a first round pick for Marcus Williams. The list goes on.

But you're more knowledgeable/objective than warriors posters on the warriors. Sure.

My opinion: The warriors front office IS good at drafting and bad at signing deals, and decent at trades. Curry, Randolph, Ellis, etc. were all good picks, jack extension, maggette signing, etc were bad signings. The trades were decent. How is it unfathomable that a front office can be good at one thing and bad at another......?

Shrink is wrong. No past deals (other than maybe bellinelli) were for far less than what warriors posters wanted.

AGAIN (i don't know if you just ignored this or didn't read it the first time):
Realgm warriors board was happy about the Jack deal. Realgm warriors board was happy about the crawford deal.

Again, if you don't like how I value players, then just don't listen. Its pretty straightforward.

[turk3d]

If by high #1 you mean a lottery pick... There is no team that would give a lottery pick for Anthony Morrow.

No, he meant exact opposite. Not even lottery. That's reasonable for a guy who made the soph stars considering half those guys who got drafted in the 1st didn't and who also won the 3 pt title in his rookie season.

[Relentless88]

Morrow is probably not worth a lotto pick, but I can see teams offering a mid (17-20) pick for him. He's got to improve his all around game. I can see the Bulls making him an offer in the summer.

[gswhoopsman]

Morrow is probably not worth a lotto pick, but I can see teams offering a mid (17-20) pick for him. He's got to improve his all around game. I can see the Bulls making him an offer in the summer.

I agree that Morrow isn't worth a lotto pick. But theres no benefit for us to trade him for a late first rounder. Nelson doesn't like rookies, and Morrow's already worked himself into the rotation. Its one of those "worth more to us than you" deals.

[turk3d]

Morrow is probably not worth a lotto pick, but I can see teams offering a mid (17-20) pick for him. He's got to improve his all around game. I can see the Bulls making him an offer in the summer.

No one ever said he was relentless. That's the whole point here. He'll either need to improve it with us (if we don't trade him) or with someone else (if we do).