Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[JRoy]

Morey wants a “star” or draft capital to trade for one

This doesn’t achieve either of those goals

So far nothing has. Grant, McCollum, White, Brogdon - they are all players of a particular caliber and it's not what Morey seems to want, but it is who is possibly available.

So Morey wants a "star" player for Ben. Fact is Ben is not a star! He's treated like one and paid like one but the guy can't shoot. I see him as a defensive specialist, good passer and rebounder. The lack of shooting range and low free throw percentage takes him down a notch. Brogdon is a better all around player as far as I'm concerned and I don't think a 1 for 1 is something that would benefit Indiana. Brogdon is not a hold out, he's on a better contract and he's a team leader. Ben is acting like a petulant child, he's set to make $31 million and he butt hurt and wants traded.

Really?

Brogdon is a better shooter.

Simmons is a better passer, rebounder, athlete and a much better defensive player.

How is Brogdon a better all around player?

[Scoot McGroot]

Tell it to Morey but Simmons is levels above Brogdon

I'm not running simmons down and wanting him on my team I prefer to make no offer for him. You're entitled to you opinion on the players. But all things considered Simmons has not shown that he deserves to be paid $31 million or have the status of tier 1 players. Brogdon has had injury issues and missed 20 games or so each year which diminishes his value but he's paid 2/3 what Simmons is and he doesn't have an attitude problem.

I saw probably 5 Indiana games last season, and it seemed to me there was an issue with Brogdon each game - his energy level wasn't there. Makes me wonder if there's a physical issue he's been dealing with and whether it will continue.

It was mostly that he was averaging around 37 minutes per game under Bjorkgren for the first 2/3 or so of the season. He and Sabonis were eternally exhausted on the court. Bjorkgren argued it was fine since he ran shorter practices. He also had Covid right before the bubble, so there may have been a bit of a conditioning issue , too.

[bpcox05]

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PHI Gets: Bradley Beal, Buddy Hield, Davis Bertans, & Kyle Kuzma
PHI Gives: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, & Shake Milton
Why for PHI? The 76ers move on from disgruntled Simmons and land a 28 year guard who can be a legitimate 2nd option next to Embiid. Beal's ability to shoot, play on the perimeter, and play off the ball will be a solid complement to Embiid. They also land two of the best volume 3pt shooters in the league in Hield & Bertans to further space the floor. Kuzma gives them another SF/PF who can't (obviously) space the floor as much as Bertans but brings more defense and iso scoring as a change of pace. Curry, Beal, Hield, Green, & Bertans is top shelf spacing for Embiid and would allow him to further dominate.

PG - Beal / Curry / Springer
SG - Hield / Maxey / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Bertans / Kuzma / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey

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SAC Gets: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, Thomas Bryant, & Shake Milton
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
Why for SAC? With Mitchell & Haliburton already on the roster, losing Fox & Hield isn't as big of a loss as it could be. In return, they upgrade their frontcourt by adding Simmons & Harris. Simmons would have a lot of shooters to work with in Mitchell, Milton, Haliburton, Davis, Barnes, Harris, & Bryant to help maximize his skillset. Bryant's rim protection and shooting potential could be a solid fit next to Simmons long term. Milton also gives them some a solid backup PG to help out with their depth chart. Lastly, they could have an interesting death lineup to close out games in Mitchell-Haliburton-Barnes-Harris-Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Milton
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Harris / Barnes / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Harkless / Metu
C - Holmes / Bryant / Thompson / Len

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WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, Kyle Kuzma, & Thomas Bryant
Why for WAS? The Wizards clear about $30 mil in salary this season and move off of Bertans & Kuzma's salaries as they head into their rebuild. In exchange for 28 year old Beal, they get 23 year old Fox who has 5 more years on his contract. They also take a chance on Bagley to see if anything is there; otherwise, he acts as an expiring.

PG - Fox / Holiday / Neto
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Avdija / Kispert
PF - Hachimura / Bagley / Todd / Gill
C - Gafford / Harrell / Jones

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[kuclas]

I'm not running simmons down and wanting him on my team I prefer to make no offer for him. You're entitled to you opinion on the players. But all things considered Simmons has not shown that he deserves to be paid $31 million or have the status of tier 1 players. Brogdon has had injury issues and missed 20 games or so each year which diminishes his value but he's paid 2/3 what Simmons is and he doesn't have an attitude problem.

I saw probably 5 Indiana games last season, and it seemed to me there was an issue with Brogdon each game - his energy level wasn't there. Makes me wonder if there's a physical issue he's been dealing with and whether it will continue.

It was mostly that he was averaging around 37 minutes per game under Bjorkgren for the first 2/3 or so of the season. He and Sabonis were eternally exhausted on the court. Bjorkgren argued it was fine since he ran shorter practices. He also had Covid right before the bubble, so there may have been a bit of a conditioning issue , too.

I like brodgon. He would be a good fit with sixers if they got rid of Tobias Harris and move Simmons to the 4 slot.

But brodgon just can’t play 25 minutes or more. He’s so injury prone. The lower extremity injury history adds up over time. Even though he was an “old” almost 24 year old rookie in 2016. He shouldn’t have this much wear and tear as an almost 29 year old with 5 years of nba seasons under his belt.

He was already limited physically not that athletic entering the league. And now the lower body problems.

I just don’t see brodgon as full time starter these days. He just can’t stay healthy.

[Scoot McGroot]

I saw probably 5 Indiana games last season, and it seemed to me there was an issue with Brogdon each game - his energy level wasn't there. Makes me wonder if there's a physical issue he's been dealing with and whether it will continue.

It was mostly that he was averaging around 37 minutes per game under Bjorkgren for the first 2/3 or so of the season. He and Sabonis were eternally exhausted on the court. Bjorkgren argued it was fine since he ran shorter practices. He also had Covid right before the bubble, so there may have been a bit of a conditioning issue , too.

I like brodgon. He would be a good fit with sixers if they got rid of Tobias Harris and move Simmons to the 4 slot.

But brodgon just can’t play 25 minutes or more. He’s so injury prone. The lower extremity injury history adds up over time. Even though he was an “old” almost 24 year old rookie in 2016. He shouldn’t have this much wear and tear as an almost 29 year old with 5 years of nba seasons under his belt.

Oh, he can absolutely play a normal starters minutes. He shouldn't be playing 5 game stretches where he averages over 40 minutes per night, as he did last year. Or 37 minutes per night for 20 game stretches. But, play him 32-34 minutes per night for the season? You'll obviously have a couple games missed here or there from injuries, but I think you could get 70+ games out of him in the regular season, probably. He was pretty healthy last year until the sheer amount of minutes just added up on him.

He was already limited physically not that athletic entering the league. And now the lower body problems.

I just don’t see brodgon as full time starter these days. He just can’t stay healthy.

He's definitely a full-time starter. He's just not a guy you should imagine playing 37 minutes per night for nearly a full season. I think a decent head coach should limit him to a better situation to keep him healthy.

[babyjax13]

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PHI Gets: Bradley Beal, Buddy Hield, Davis Bertans, & Kyle Kuzma
PHI Gives: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, & Shake Milton
Why for PHI? The 76ers move on from disgruntled Simmons and land a 28 year guard who can be a legitimate 2nd option next to Embiid. Beal's ability to shoot, play on the perimeter, and play off the ball will be a solid complement to Embiid. They also land two of the best volume 3pt shooters in the league in Hield & Bertans to further space the floor. Kuzma gives them another SF/PF who can't (obviously) space the floor as much as Bertans but brings more defense and iso scoring as a change of pace. Curry, Beal, Hield, Green, & Bertans is top shelf spacing for Embiid and would allow him to further dominate.

PG - Beal / Curry / Springer
SG - Hield / Maxey / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Bertans / Kuzma / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey

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SAC Gets: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, Thomas Bryant, & Shake Milton
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
Why for SAC? With Mitchell & Haliburton already on the roster, losing Fox & Hield isn't as big of a loss as it could be. In return, they upgrade their frontcourt by adding Simmons & Harris. Simmons would have a lot of shooters to work with in Mitchell, Milton, Haliburton, Davis, Barnes, Harris, & Bryant to help maximize his skillset. Bryant's rim protection and shooting potential could be a solid fit next to Simmons long term. Milton also gives them some a solid backup PG to help out with their depth chart. Lastly, they could have an interesting death lineup to close out games in Mitchell-Haliburton-Barnes-Harris-Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Milton
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Harris / Barnes / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Harkless / Metu
C - Holmes / Bryant / Thompson / Len

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WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, Kyle Kuzma, & Thomas Bryant
Why for WAS? The Wizards clear about $30 mil in salary this season and move off of Bertans & Kuzma's salaries as they head into their rebuild. In exchange for 28 year old Beal, they get 23 year old Fox who has 5 more years on his contract. They also take a chance on Bagley to see if anything is there; otherwise, he acts as an expiring.

PG - Fox / Holiday / Neto
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Avdija / Kispert
PF - Hachimura / Bagley / Todd / Gill
C - Gafford / Harrell / Jones

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Beautifully formatted. Washington needs some picks/prospects coming with Fox, because they would be in a worse position than Sacramento is now after this trade. I don't hate the basic idea, though, if Washington decides to move Beal.

[doctor him]

Current day? Or what you hope Maxey becomes? I get liking the potential of Maxey over McConnell being what he is, and can see justifying value based on that. But looking at what they did last year, in what way is Maxey better, other than being willing and able to score more?
RAPTOR has Maxey at a -2.4. McConnell a +2.3.
WAR Maxey .2, McConnell 4.7
McConnell has a higher PER, higher TS%, higher TRB%, over twice the Ast%, higher Steal% higher VORP, higher WS/48, higher BPM, better ORTG, better DRTG, comparative to overall team DRTG.
Maxey isn't a better shooter. So other than scoring on volume, in what way is he better right now?

Hit them with the facts! They hate that.

We watch TJ. He was a fan favorite of a certain demographic of fans here.

He's made himself into a competent backup in the league which is about 5 levels beyond where I thought his (limited) talent would yield. Good for him.

But he's not a player and has no chance to be an actual contributor in a game that matters.

Maxey could become that.

[Godaddycurse]

Beautifully formatted. Washington needs some picks/prospects coming with Fox, because they would be in a worse position than Sacramento is now after this trade. I don't hate the basic idea, though, if Washington decides to move Beal.

they are also getting off the contracts of kuzma and bertrans for free, which is worth a 1st or more in my books. You think beal is worth fox + 2-3 1sts?

[Texas Chuck]

You think beal is worth fox + 2-3 1sts?

Extended? Absolutely. No commitment to re-sign? No. So should the Kings offer that for Beal to keep him? No, not unless he agrees to a long-term extension.

But I'm also not sold on Fox as a star player either. So for those who feel that to be a lock, they may feel differently.

[rpa]

Spoiler:

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PHI Gets: Bradley Beal, Buddy Hield, Davis Bertans, & Kyle Kuzma
PHI Gives: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, & Shake Milton
Why for PHI? The 76ers move on from disgruntled Simmons and land a 28 year guard who can be a legitimate 2nd option next to Embiid. Beal's ability to shoot, play on the perimeter, and play off the ball will be a solid complement to Embiid. They also land two of the best volume 3pt shooters in the league in Hield & Bertans to further space the floor. Kuzma gives them another SF/PF who can't (obviously) space the floor as much as Bertans but brings more defense and iso scoring as a change of pace. Curry, Beal, Hield, Green, & Bertans is top shelf spacing for Embiid and would allow him to further dominate.

PG - Beal / Curry / Springer
SG - Hield / Maxey / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Bertans / Kuzma / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey

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SAC Gets: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, Thomas Bryant, & Shake Milton
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
Why for SAC? With Mitchell & Haliburton already on the roster, losing Fox & Hield isn't as big of a loss as it could be. In return, they upgrade their frontcourt by adding Simmons & Harris. Simmons would have a lot of shooters to work with in Mitchell, Milton, Haliburton, Davis, Barnes, Harris, & Bryant to help maximize his skillset. Bryant's rim protection and shooting potential could be a solid fit next to Simmons long term. Milton also gives them some a solid backup PG to help out with their depth chart. Lastly, they could have an interesting death lineup to close out games in Mitchell-Haliburton-Barnes-Harris-Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Milton
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Harris / Barnes / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Harkless / Metu
C - Holmes / Bryant / Thompson / Len

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WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, Kyle Kuzma, & Thomas Bryant
Why for WAS? The Wizards clear about $30 mil in salary this season and move off of Bertans & Kuzma's salaries as they head into their rebuild. In exchange for 28 year old Beal, they get 23 year old Fox who has 5 more years on his contract. They also take a chance on Bagley to see if anything is there; otherwise, he acts as an expiring.

PG - Fox / Holiday / Neto
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Avdija / Kispert
PF - Hachimura / Bagley / Todd / Gill
C - Gafford / Harrell / Jones

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Not a fan of this at all from a Kings perspective. I'm on record against both pieces in here (essentially a Fox/Simmons swap and a Hield+Bagley/Harris swap). I think it makes the Kings more talented now, but the fit is questionable (I think one of the Sixers' problems now is the Harris/Simmons fit), the guard rotation becomes crazy thin, and the salary allotment isn't great (you're forced to bring Barnes off the bench)

[Texas Chuck]

Not a fan of this at all from a Kings perspective. I'm on record against both pieces in here (essentially a Fox/Simmons swap and a Hield+Bagley/Harris swap). I think it makes the Kings more talented now, but the fit is questionable (I think one of the Sixers' problems now is the Harris/Simmons fit), the guard rotation becomes crazy thin, and the salary allotment isn't great (you're forced to bring Barnes off the bench)

Not speaking to the proposed deal as your position is your position. But wouldn't it be likely that you could turn Barnes into a quality guard if you didn't want the forward depth?

And because Simmons would be the PG on offense and Barnes and Harris both shoot well and there is enough defensive versatility there, you could play all three of them together at times so getting minutes for all three of them would be easy enough.

Again, no comments on the deal, but I think the roster issues are less significant. Either keep Barnes and have a rare and valuable advantage of having multiple talented big forwards and look elsewhere for another guard(or just roll with Simmons) or I think you could flip Barnes for a good guard because there are simply more of those than there are big forwards who can shoot.

[zimpy27]

Beautifully formatted. Washington needs some picks/prospects coming with Fox, because they would be in a worse position than Sacramento is now after this trade. I don't hate the basic idea, though, if Washington decides to move Beal.

they are also getting off the contracts of kuzma and bertrans for free, which is worth a 1st or more in my books. You think beal is worth fox + 2-3 1sts?

I do not, even if extended. Beals max is a 35% max next season. I don't think he's worth that money For 5 years or he's exactly worth that as a neutral contract. Even with Westbrook there he didn't look like the superior player and Westbrook is consider barely positive on his 35% max contract.

I think Beal is getting overvalued. He should be framed similarly to Sexton IMO. Worth more but devalued a little because of the extreme salary jump they both expect to get in a year.

[babyjax13]

Beautifully formatted. Washington needs some picks/prospects coming with Fox, because they would be in a worse position than Sacramento is now after this trade. I don't hate the basic idea, though, if Washington decides to move Beal.

they are also getting off the contracts of kuzma and bertrans for free, which is worth a 1st or more in my books. You think beal is worth fox + 2-3 1sts?

I don't think Kuzma is a negative value contract, I think he's neutral. Bertans I think would take a first to move. So let's call that the equivalent of Fox + 1st for Beal; I do think that an extended Beal would take 2 more picks, I think for a non-extended Beal it's a fair offer, but Washington would be better off getting whatever assets you could get for Fox (picks + prospects). Or, sub some Sac young guys + picks for Fox.

[Tomjas]

Sixers give up 140 per night with that lineup and still don’t have a pg

[rpa]

Not speaking to the proposed deal as your position is your position. But wouldn't it be likely that you could turn Barnes into a quality guard if you didn't want the forward depth?

Sure, but (flame suit on) is it crazy to say that I'd rather just keep Hield and Barnes? Both are better shooters than Harris (and likely whoever they'd trade Barnes for) and isn't shooting the prime component you want around Simmons? It also means you don't have to rely on Terrence Davis playing significant minutes as your backup 2. I guess a lot of this comes down to my low opinion of Harris. He's undoubtedly better than Barnes or Hield, but at (close to the) same salary I'd rather have the 2 of them than the 1 of him.

[Texas Chuck]

Sure, but (flame suit on) is it crazy to say that I'd rather just keep Hield and Barnes? .

I don't think its crazy. I'd probably take Harris, but certainly there is an argument for keeping the other duo. My point again was not trying to talk you into anything, but that I think balancing the roster might not even be necessary, but would be probably not difficult to do.

I know this board isn't as high on Harry Barnes as me, and admittedly my admiration of him as a human probably does cause me to overrate him as a player, but I think the Kings would have zero trouble moving him for good return. Those players are just too valuable and hard to get ahold of.

[babyjax13]

Suns trade: DeAndre Ayton, Dario Saric, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Smith, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson
Suns receive: Ben Simmons, Christian Wood, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe
Suns add a center locked up on a bargain deal, and a star who will benefit from their spread court and Chris Paul's leadership. They will have to find either a small forward or power forward to add to the rotation.

Wood/McGee/Reed
Simmons/Reed/Crowder
Crowder/Nader/Joe
Booker/Milton
Paul/Payne

Rockets trade: Christian Wood, Danuel House
Rockets receive: DeAndre Ayton, Jalen Smith, Charles Bassey
Rockets get a younger center than Wood with some upside remaining, plus some other prospects.

76ers trade: Ben Simmons, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe, Charles Bassey
76ers receive: Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson, Danuel House
6ers get a local player who is an extremely good defender and a solid offensive player, plus some rotation players to spread the court and defend. They'll have to figure something out at point guard.

Embiid/Drummond
Harris/Johnson/House
Bridges/Thybulle/Johnson
Green/Korkmaz/Shamet
Curry/Springer

[JRoy]

Suns trade: DeAndre Ayton, Dario Saric, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Smith, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson
Suns receive: Ben Simmons, Christian Wood, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe
Suns add a center locked up on a bargain deal, and a star who will benefit from their spread court and Chris Paul's leadership. They will have to find either a small forward or power forward to add to the rotation.

Wood/McGee/Reed
Simmons/Reed/Crowder
Crowder/Nader/Joe
Booker/Milton
Paul/Payne

Rockets trade: Christian Wood, Danuel House
Rockets receive: DeAndre Ayton, Jalen Smith, Charles Bassey
Rockets get a younger center than Wood with some upside remaining, plus some other prospects.

76ers trade: Ben Simmons, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe, Charles Bassey
76ers receive: Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson, Danuel House
6ers get a local player who is an extremely good defender and a solid offensive player, plus some rotation players to spread the court and defend. They'll have to figure something out at point guard.

Embiid/Drummond
Harris/Johnson/House
Bridges/Thybulle/Johnson
Green/Korkmaz/Shamet
Curry/Springer

Rockets sucking value

[babyjax13]

Suns trade: DeAndre Ayton, Dario Saric, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Smith, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson
Suns receive: Ben Simmons, Christian Wood, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe
Suns add a center locked up on a bargain deal, and a star who will benefit from their spread court and Chris Paul's leadership. They will have to find either a small forward or power forward to add to the rotation.

Wood/McGee/Reed
Simmons/Reed/Crowder
Crowder/Nader/Joe
Booker/Milton
Paul/Payne

Rockets trade: Christian Wood, Danuel House
Rockets receive: DeAndre Ayton, Jalen Smith, Charles Bassey
Rockets get a younger center than Wood with some upside remaining, plus some other prospects.

76ers trade: Ben Simmons, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe, Charles Bassey
76ers receive: Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson, Danuel House
6ers get a local player who is an extremely good defender and a solid offensive player, plus some rotation players to spread the court and defend. They'll have to figure something out at point guard.

Embiid/Drummond
Harris/Johnson/House
Bridges/Thybulle/Johnson
Green/Korkmaz/Shamet
Curry/Springer

Rockets sucking value

I honestly don't know how to value Wood. He's a 20/10 player on terrible teams locked up on a great contract with decent but not amazing advance metrics (e.g. higher +2.5 RAPTOR vs. Ayton's +1.6). Is that an amazing player not getting his recognition yet, or a pretty good player putting up stats on bad teams? Also, as far as I'm concerned, Smith and Bassey are each worth about an early 2nd. If you told me "take out Bassey" and it's even (or take out Smith) that seems reasonable, if you say Wood = Ayton (which I *think* is where I am at).

[JRoy]

Suns trade: DeAndre Ayton, Dario Saric, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Smith, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson
Suns receive: Ben Simmons, Christian Wood, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe
Suns add a center locked up on a bargain deal, and a star who will benefit from their spread court and Chris Paul's leadership. They will have to find either a small forward or power forward to add to the rotation.

Wood/McGee/Reed
Simmons/Reed/Crowder
Crowder/Nader/Joe
Booker/Milton
Paul/Payne

Rockets trade: Christian Wood, Danuel House
Rockets receive: DeAndre Ayton, Jalen Smith, Charles Bassey
Rockets get a younger center than Wood with some upside remaining, plus some other prospects.

76ers trade: Ben Simmons, Shake Milton, Paul Reed, Isiah Joe, Charles Bassey
76ers receive: Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet, Cam Johnson, Danuel House
6ers get a local player who is an extremely good defender and a solid offensive player, plus some rotation players to spread the court and defend. They'll have to figure something out at point guard.

Embiid/Drummond
Harris/Johnson/House
Bridges/Thybulle/Johnson
Green/Korkmaz/Shamet
Curry/Springer

Rockets sucking value

I honestly don't know how to value Wood. He's a 20/10 player on terrible teams locked up on a great contract with decent but not amazing advance metrics (e.g. higher +2.5 RAPTOR vs. Ayton's +1.6). Is that an amazing player not getting his recognition yet, or a pretty good player putting up stats on bad teams? Also, as far as I'm concerned, Smith and Bassey are each worth about an early 2nd. If you told me "take out Bassey" and it's even (or take out Smith) that seems reasonable, if you say Wood = Ayton (which I *think* is where I am at).

Taking out Smith is a good start, he’s not a throw in.

I think he could be a very nice player on the right team and not sure that team is PHX.

Wood is a tough one to value: puts up great numbers for losing teams but looks like fools gold to me.

I am a pessimist so maybe I underestimate his value.