Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[Texas Chuck]

The Philadelphia 76ers and Portland Trail Blazers have engaged on trade discussions for Ben Simmons. The talks centered around a swap of Simmons for C.J. McCollum, but died due to Philadelphia seeking multiple first round picks. Daryl Morey reportedly asked for three first round picks and pick swaps in the intervening years, in addition to McCollum.

3? Talk about being greedy. Why 3?

Because as a few of us have been pointing out for a long time now, Ben Simmons is a lot more valuable than CJ and Philly realizes that. Plus you always start high in negotiations so Portland could counter with something more reasonable and a deal could possibly get done.

IF you just ask for 2 picks and no swaps then Portland is going to come back and try and give you 1 with lots of protections and then its just terrible for Philly.

But CJ straight up or CJ/Roco for Simmons/Curry was never something Philly was going to remotely entertain. Because its awful.

[mademan]

CJ/Roco 1 pick and a swap might be a decent compromise. I'd still try to get another pick if i was Philly, but I feel this just might be posturing on their end to get more from Indy. Im not sure if they really want CJ

[LofJ]

I think Charlotte would definitely be willing to give up a fair amount of value for Sabonis or Turner as the 3rd team in a trade with Philly. Our habitual slaughtering when we face big teams like the Grizzlies last night likely drove home the point again regarding how weak our frontcourt is.

We make no sense as a destination for Simmons though.

[the_process]

Hayward, Bouknight, unprotected 2023 for Simmons

Hornets

Ball
Rozier
Oubre
Simmons
Plumlee

Simmons gets surrounded by shooters and allows him to play as the primary guy in the paint. Being away from a media mecca is probably best for his fragile ego.

6ers

maxey
Curry
Hayward
Harris
Embiid

THey get a wing that can create his own shot, move the ball, and shoot. Hayward helps them win now. Bouknight becomes part of their backcourt of the the future with maxey.

I like this better than almost any IND idea, but there's gotta be another 1st included.

[LAL1947]

Assumptions:
1) Lillard and Beal aren't leaving their teams.
2) Indiana is offering Brogdon/Levert/1 FRP.
3) Minnesota is offering Beasley/Prince/McDaniels/2 FRP or Beasley/D'lo/2 FRP. D'lo sucks. Getting both Prince + McDaniels is redundant since Tobias is the 76er's PF. So adding Dejounte to the mix solves the issues with Minny's players.
---
Philly - Why? Seems a better offer than any other I've seen so far.
In: Dejounte, Beasley, Prince, 2 unprotected Minny FRPs
Out: Simmons, Milton

Dejounte/Maxey, Beasley/Curry, Green/Thybulle, Harris/Prince, Embiid/Drummond
+ Springer, Harrison, Korkmaz, Reed, Bassey
---
Minnesota - Why? Simmons.... duh.
In: Simmons, Burke
Out: Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, 2 unprotected FRPs

PatBev/Burke, D'lo/Nowell, Edwards/Okogie, Simmons/Vanderbilt, KAT/Reid

If Minny wants another PF, SAS can agree to cut Aminu for Minny to pick up with their NTMLE.
---
San Antonio - Why? A 20/10 Center provides scoring thrust to their "good but no star" back-court.
In: Porzingis, Milton
Out: Dejounte, Lonnie, Poeltl

White/Milton, Vassell/Forbes, Keldon/McDermott, Thad/Samanic, Porzingis/Landale
---
Dallas - Why? Lose their 2nd star to improve the depth and defense.
In: Lonnie, Poeltl, McDaniels
Out: Porzingis, Burke

Luka/Brunson, THJ/Lonnie, DFS/Bullock, McDaniels/Kleber, Poeltl/WCS

[jeeph]

If we trade Brogdon/LeVert for Simmons, we'd be running a lineup of Simmons/Lamb/Holiday/Myles/Domas. It would be interesting for sure, tripling down on the bigs concept before we've gotten the two bigs right. I just don't see it as something the team would be looking to do. Especially considering Rick wants everyone to at least try to shoot (McConnell took three 3s last game).

To me, it's not about maximizing fit for this season. It's about getting a talent like Simmons for a fairly cheap price and then figuring it out later. To me, guards like Brogdon/Levert are very replaceable

This

Simmons to the Cavs makes no sense from a fit perspective either so motivation can only be to get Simmons cheap & sort things out later

Minnesota & Spurs I can understand purely from the players angle

From a Cavs fan perspective, figuring out the fit from a core of Garland, Okoro, Simmons, and Mobley would be worth the risk. If they all develop and fit that gives you 3 plus defenders, 3 plus offensive players, 3 guys with All NBA team potential. If nothing else it would be exciting.

The problem isn't the fit, it's the offer. Love/Sexton/1st's/ is not quite what the 76'ers are looking for. Love would fit with Embiid, Sexton is very young and instant offense, and the first's could be good if the fit doesn't work, so it's not a bad offer. But I think they want a prime piece like Beal, CJ, Brogdon, etc... So it would have to be a 3 way for the Cavs to get Simmons. Something like this in nature...

Cavs out - Love/Sexton/1st's
Cavs in - Simmons

Wiz out - Beal
Wiz in - Love/Sexton/1st's

76's out - Simmons
76's in - Beal

[GutUNC]

To me, it's not about maximizing fit for this season. It's about getting a talent like Simmons for a fairly cheap price and then figuring it out later. To me, guards like Brogdon/Levert are very replaceable

This

Simmons to the Cavs makes no sense from a fit perspective either so motivation can only be to get Simmons cheap & sort things out later

Minnesota & Spurs I can understand purely from the players angle

From a Cavs fan perspective, figuring out the fit from a core of Garland, Okoro, Simmons, and Mobley would be worth the risk. If they all develop and fit that gives you 3 plus defenders, 3 plus offensive players, 3 guys with All NBA team potential. If nothing else it would be exciting.

The problem isn't the fit, it's the offer. Love/Sexton/1st's/ is not quite what the 76'ers are looking for. Love would fit with Embiid, Sexton is very young and instant offense, and the first's could be good if the fit doesn't work, so it's not a bad offer. But I think they want a prime piece like Beal, CJ, Brogdon, etc... So it would have to be a 3 way for the Cavs to get Simmons. Something like this in nature...

Cavs out - Love/Sexton/1st's
Cavs in - Simmons

Wiz out - Beal
Wiz in - Love/Sexton/1st's

76's out - Simmons
76's in - Beal

The Wizards would have an even more negative reaction to that package then the Sixers would.

[Roy The Natural]

The Philadelphia 76ers and Portland Trail Blazers have engaged on trade discussions for Ben Simmons. The talks centered around a swap of Simmons for C.J. McCollum, but died due to Philadelphia seeking multiple first round picks. Daryl Morey reportedly asked for three first round picks and pick swaps in the intervening years, in addition to McCollum.

3? Talk about being greedy. Why 3?

Because as a few of us have been pointing out for a long time now, Ben Simmons is a lot more valuable than CJ and Philly realizes that. Plus you always start high in negotiations so Portland could counter with something more reasonable and a deal could possibly get done.

IF you just ask for 2 picks and no swaps then Portland is going to come back and try and give you 1 with lots of protections and then its just terrible for Philly.

But CJ straight up or CJ/Roco for Simmons/Curry was never something Philly was going to remotely entertain. Because its awful.

I guess... except it was rejected, just as every other "give us the moon" attempt from Philly has been rejected. I don't think there's very many people saying that CJ has the same "value" as Simmons. He simply has a similar, same tier impact. Age, and perceived upside are the big boosts to Simmons value over a guy like CJ. If CJ was at 25 years old coming off 23/4/5 on 46/40/81 splits his value would be much higher on these boards as well.

I've always maintained that Portland should add some picks. However, 3 1sts and swaps is pretty outrageous even with basically filler for a guy who probably best ranked somewhere around 30-35 as far as best players in the league go.

[Texas Chuck]

The Philadelphia 76ers and Portland Trail Blazers have engaged on trade discussions for Ben Simmons. The talks centered around a swap of Simmons for C.J. McCollum, but died due to Philadelphia seeking multiple first round picks. Daryl Morey reportedly asked for three first round picks and pick swaps in the intervening years, in addition to McCollum.

3? Talk about being greedy. Why 3?

Because as a few of us have been pointing out for a long time now, Ben Simmons is a lot more valuable than CJ and Philly realizes that. Plus you always start high in negotiations so Portland could counter with something more reasonable and a deal could possibly get done.

IF you just ask for 2 picks and no swaps then Portland is going to come back and try and give you 1 with lots of protections and then its just terrible for Philly.

But CJ straight up or CJ/Roco for Simmons/Curry was never something Philly was going to remotely entertain. Because its awful.

I guess... except it was rejected, just as every other "give us the moon" attempt from Philly has been rejected. I don't think there's very many people saying that CJ has the same "value" as Simmons. He simply has a similar, same tier impact. Age, and perceived upside are the big boosts to Simmons value over a guy like CJ. If CJ was at 25 years old coming off 23/4/5 on 46/40/81 splits his value would be much higher on these boards as well.

I've always maintained that Portland should add some picks. However, 3 1sts and swaps is pretty outrageous even with basically filler for a guy who probably best ranked somewhere around 30-35 as far as best players in the league go.

OF course it was rejected. It's a ridiculous ask. Hence me quite clearly saying start high so there is room to negotiate. I'm not saying Simmons is worth CJ and 3 unp 1sts and 3 swaps. He's absolutely not.

And no CJ doesn't have the same impact but I'm not getting into that. I know you have convinced yourself of that and that's whatever.

[Roy The Natural]

Because as a few of us have been pointing out for a long time now, Ben Simmons is a lot more valuable than CJ and Philly realizes that. Plus you always start high in negotiations so Portland could counter with something more reasonable and a deal could possibly get done.

IF you just ask for 2 picks and no swaps then Portland is going to come back and try and give you 1 with lots of protections and then its just terrible for Philly.

But CJ straight up or CJ/Roco for Simmons/Curry was never something Philly was going to remotely entertain. Because its awful.

I guess... except it was rejected, just as every other "give us the moon" attempt from Philly has been rejected. I don't think there's very many people saying that CJ has the same "value" as Simmons. He simply has a similar, same tier impact. Age, and perceived upside are the big boosts to Simmons value over a guy like CJ. If CJ was at 25 years old coming off 23/4/5 on 46/40/81 splits his value would be much higher on these boards as well.

I've always maintained that Portland should add some picks. However, 3 1sts and swaps is pretty outrageous even with basically filler for a guy who probably best ranked somewhere around 30-35 as far as best players in the league go.

OF course it was rejected. It's a ridiculous ask. Hence me quite clearly saying start high so there is room to negotiate. I'm not saying Simmons is worth CJ and 3 unp 1sts and 3 swaps. He's absolutely not.

And no CJ doesn't have the same impact but I'm not getting into that. I know you have convinced yourself of that and that's whatever.

I'm not saying their impact is the same... just similar. You've never provided any evidence to the contrary... to I'll take your objection for what it is... unfounded.

[BullyKing]

Because as a few of us have been pointing out for a long time now, Ben Simmons is a lot more valuable than CJ and Philly realizes that. Plus you always start high in negotiations so Portland could counter with something more reasonable and a deal could possibly get done.

IF you just ask for 2 picks and no swaps then Portland is going to come back and try and give you 1 with lots of protections and then its just terrible for Philly.

But CJ straight up or CJ/Roco for Simmons/Curry was never something Philly was going to remotely entertain. Because its awful.

I guess... except it was rejected, just as every other "give us the moon" attempt from Philly has been rejected. I don't think there's very many people saying that CJ has the same "value" as Simmons. He simply has a similar, same tier impact. Age, and perceived upside are the big boosts to Simmons value over a guy like CJ. If CJ was at 25 years old coming off 23/4/5 on 46/40/81 splits his value would be much higher on these boards as well.

I've always maintained that Portland should add some picks. However, 3 1sts and swaps is pretty outrageous even with basically filler for a guy who probably best ranked somewhere around 30-35 as far as best players in the league go.

OF course it was rejected. It's a ridiculous ask. Hence me quite clearly saying start high so there is room to negotiate. I'm not saying Simmons is worth CJ and 3 unp 1sts and 3 swaps. He's absolutely not.

And no CJ doesn't have the same impact but I'm not getting into that. I know you have convinced yourself of that and that's whatever.

Can I ask why its ridiculous? That's pretty much the same price that an expiring Jrue received. And I understand that trade had the negative Bledsoe salary outgoing but according to Hollinger, CJ is also viewed as "slightly negative" value around the league. https://theathletic.com/2638547/2021/06/08/is-lillard-the-nbas-next-big-trade-domino-its-up-to-portlands-next-coach-hollingers-front-office-perspective/.

[Texas Chuck]

I guess... except it was rejected, just as every other "give us the moon" attempt from Philly has been rejected. I don't think there's very many people saying that CJ has the same "value" as Simmons. He simply has a similar, same tier impact. Age, and perceived upside are the big boosts to Simmons value over a guy like CJ. If CJ was at 25 years old coming off 23/4/5 on 46/40/81 splits his value would be much higher on these boards as well.

I've always maintained that Portland should add some picks. However, 3 1sts and swaps is pretty outrageous even with basically filler for a guy who probably best ranked somewhere around 30-35 as far as best players in the league go.

OF course it was rejected. It's a ridiculous ask. Hence me quite clearly saying start high so there is room to negotiate. I'm not saying Simmons is worth CJ and 3 unp 1sts and 3 swaps. He's absolutely not.

And no CJ doesn't have the same impact but I'm not getting into that. I know you have convinced yourself of that and that's whatever.

I'm not saying their impact is the same... just similar. You've never provided any evidence to the contrary... to I'll take your objection for what it is... unfounded.

Here's the thing Roy. You made some claims regarding CJ vs Curry. That were wrong btw. And demanded I give you evidence. I balked at first then decided to play ball and gave you tons of evidence. You then returned to the thread and responded to a bunch of other posts but ignored mine. Because you got exactly what you demanded but it showed a story you didn't like.

So I'm not playing that game with you again, sorry.

[Texas Chuck]

I guess... except it was rejected, just as every other "give us the moon" attempt from Philly has been rejected. I don't think there's very many people saying that CJ has the same "value" as Simmons. He simply has a similar, same tier impact. Age, and perceived upside are the big boosts to Simmons value over a guy like CJ. If CJ was at 25 years old coming off 23/4/5 on 46/40/81 splits his value would be much higher on these boards as well.

I've always maintained that Portland should add some picks. However, 3 1sts and swaps is pretty outrageous even with basically filler for a guy who probably best ranked somewhere around 30-35 as far as best players in the league go.

OF course it was rejected. It's a ridiculous ask. Hence me quite clearly saying start high so there is room to negotiate. I'm not saying Simmons is worth CJ and 3 unp 1sts and 3 swaps. He's absolutely not.

And no CJ doesn't have the same impact but I'm not getting into that. I know you have convinced yourself of that and that's whatever.

Can I ask why its ridiculous? That's pretty much the same price that an expiring Jrue received. And I understand that trade had the negative Bledsoe salary outgoing but according to Hollinger, CJ is also viewed as "slightly negative" value around the league. https://theathletic.com/2638547/2021/06/08/is-lillard-the-nbas-next-big-trade-domino-its-up-to-portlands-next-coach-hollingers-front-office-perspective/.

I thnk the Bucks overpaid to start with. Which I think they were willing to do because it also led to a Giannis re-signing.

Jrue despite being expiring also had a great reputation and while I can't say for sure it appears at least indicated being open to an extension since he signed one shortly thereafter. Simmons otoh has less trade value than he should based on his contract and level of play. I'm higher on his value than most, but even I understand its taken a hit.

[GutUNC]

Before this spins irretrievably out of control again, can't it say both things? It's not an offer that makes sense for Portland but it's the offer on the table because Morey sees CJM as a boat anchor contract that locks him in to a Embiid/Tobias/CJM 2nd round core so the only way he would do it is for a king's ransom of picks that allows PHL flexibility in trading moving forward.

Or, put another way:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[BullyKing]

OF course it was rejected. It's a ridiculous ask. Hence me quite clearly saying start high so there is room to negotiate. I'm not saying Simmons is worth CJ and 3 unp 1sts and 3 swaps. He's absolutely not.

And no CJ doesn't have the same impact but I'm not getting into that. I know you have convinced yourself of that and that's whatever.

Can I ask why its ridiculous? That's pretty much the same price that an expiring Jrue received. And I understand that trade had the negative Bledsoe salary outgoing but according to Hollinger, CJ is also viewed as "slightly negative" value around the league. https://theathletic.com/2638547/2021/06/08/is-lillard-the-nbas-next-big-trade-domino-its-up-to-portlands-next-coach-hollingers-front-office-perspective/.

I thnk the Bucks overpaid to start with. Which I think they were willing to do because it also led to a Giannis re-signing.

Jrue despite being expiring also had a great reputation and while I can't say for sure it appears at least indicated being open to an extension since he signed one shortly thereafter. Simmons otoh has less trade value than he should based on his contract and level of play. I'm higher on his value than most, but even I understand its taken a hit.

To me I actually see the fact that Jrue was willing to sign an extension as sort of yet another price of the trade. I don't think anyone really thinks paying Jrue $40 million a year through his age 35 season is good in the abstract. It makes perfect sense for the Bucks given where they are but in a vacuum its not great. Obviously the acquiring team would have much preferred if there were 3 years instead of 1 remaining on Jrue's current deal.

Of course I agree with you that Simmons' value has taken a hit - a significant one. But to mean that hit got him down to the level of an expiring Jrue value and not ridiculously below it. A year and a half ago we would have locked a thread that proposed Jrue straight up for a newly resigned Simmons.

P.S. I also agree that the Bucks overpaid (not that they care, congrats champs!) but I don't think its crazy that Morey would be using that as precedent.

[JRoy]

3 FRP and 3 swaps is too much to add to a CJ/Simmons swap.

Would make the swap for 2 FRP

[Rastas]

3 FRP and 3 swaps is too much to add to a CJ/Simmons swap.

Would make the swap for 2 FRP

Just goes to show Morey/Sixers are not serious in trying to trade Ben.
They either running scared or on angry pills.
Probably a bit of both.

[BlazersBroncos]

3 FRP and 3 swaps is too much to add to a CJ/Simmons swap.

Would make the swap for 2 FRP

Thats where I am at. Simmons is too flawed to be worth a 3/3 package.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

6 years of pick control, which since we owe Chicago would go until at least 2028, is insane for a headache of a player who will give up and want to play in LA in a year or two at the first sign of adversity.


Someone else can pay for the headache of managing Ben Simmons personality and the entanglements of Klutch trying to get him to a bigger market than Portland. Neither Simmons nor Lillard would even still be a Blazer but we would still be sending picks to Philly.

That is definitely the type of offer that is like "this person is not being reasonable and would be a waste of time to engage with them further"

[Commodor]

I think Portland may cave on the picks. Especially if they can get Thybulle or Maxey as a young piece back. Big ask but it is a nice all-in move.