Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[Texas Chuck]

It's hard to remember exactly what the evidence was for Curry/CJ discussion. I'd need it presented again.

This is going to get me in more trouble with the guy randomly calling me out today, but tough.

No. You very aggressively demanded it. I provided it. You choose not to respond to it though I know you read it because you quoted posts directly in front of and after it.

This was information you claimed to really want. Then you got it. You go track it down. It's in this thread and not that hard to find. But it didn't support your point so....

[kuclas]

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

Secondly, you have no idea how I value McCollum, however you are making an assumption that because I am a Blazer fan, by default I overvalue him and because Chuck isn’t a Blazer fan, his opinion is more valid because of that. Which ironically, is the type of ish that I am talking about.

I’d you took the time to look, in the few posts I have made throughout you would more than likely find that Chuck and I have a fairly similar view on CJ.

Where we deviate is the value of Simmons, and even with that, I don’t think we are too far apart.

The issue isn’t just Simmons value. It’s what player can replace his defense/rebounding in addition to his point guard duties. CJ just can’t replace the defense and rebounding. I guess he could play some pg but not full time.

But for Portland. Norm Powell can replace cj production easily. Thus why Portland can move on from CJ easier than sixers can move on from Simmons.

I agree and disagree in some instances.

Offensively, norm doesn’t easily replace CJ. The shoes won’t be way too big for him to fill, but there is likely some wiggle room.

If you factor in defense, that wiggle room becomes a bit less.

However, the reason why the trade keeps popping up isn’t because of what they would lose (playmaking, defense for Philly, scoring/ball handling/spacing for PDX) it is about what they are gaining.

It also doesn’t take into account Simmons demands and attitude. I was firmly in the trade CJ/picks for Simmons camp, until all these different reports about his wants and demands were.

There is nothing that says Simmons would be happy in Portland. The only thing Portland has going for it, is that they are Philadelphia in Bens eyes.

Agree with your comments.

At the end of the day. Simmons best fit is with his friends in Minnesota. Playing with kat who can stay outside more plus provide kat with defensive help. Minnesota just doesn’t have pieces to entice sixers (future picks mean nothing to sixers especially when Minnesota core players are all under 25) meaning those future picks are gonna to be in the 18-28 range most likely.

Unlike Houston counting on Brooklyn future picks to be bad (kyrie is 29 going on 33 in body injury year) KD is 33 and harden is 32.

[Roy The Natural]

Chuck doesn't need me defending him but I will any way. Literally every team's fanbase thinks Chuck is biased against their teams because sometimes the truth is hard to hear. The idea that Chuck is biased against Portland specifically is just abject nonsense especially given that his post is in response to something a Cavs fan/mod said and not even a Portland fan.

I mean think about what you're suggesting. You and Chuck value CJ McCollum differently. You root for the team that employs him. He does not root for that team nor any team thinking of acquiring him. And with those indisputable facts, your conclusion is that Chuck is the biased one?

When Chuck and I disagree about the value of a Sixers player, my reaction isn't to think he's biased. It's to make me think that maybe I need to consider whether my own bias is at play here.

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

Secondly, you have no idea how I value McCollum, however you are making an assumption that because I am a Blazer fan, by default I overvalue him and because Chuck isn’t a Blazer fan, his opinion is more valid because of that. Which ironically, is the type of ish that I am talking about.

I’d you took the time to look, in the few posts I have made throughout you would more than likely find that Chuck and I have a fairly similar view on CJ.

Where we deviate is the value of Simmons, and even with that, I don’t think we are too far apart.

I don't think Chuck's opinion is more valid than yours. It's you who came in and accused his opinion of being the product of bias. Which is complete nonsense. Yes, he is preaching accuracy. Do you think referring to 3 1sts and 3 swaps as 6 1sts is accurate?

To be fair... You also have a dog.in this fight via bias.

[Blazer1776]

Chuck doesn't need me defending him but I will any way. Literally every team's fanbase thinks Chuck is biased against their teams because sometimes the truth is hard to hear. The idea that Chuck is biased against Portland specifically is just abject nonsense especially given that his post is in response to something a Cavs fan/mod said and not even a Portland fan.

I mean think about what you're suggesting. You and Chuck value CJ McCollum differently. You root for the team that employs him. He does not root for that team nor any team thinking of acquiring him. And with those indisputable facts, your conclusion is that Chuck is the biased one?

When Chuck and I disagree about the value of a Sixers player, my reaction isn't to think he's biased. It's to make me think that maybe I need to consider whether my own bias is at play here.

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

Secondly, you have no idea how I value McCollum, however you are making an assumption that because I am a Blazer fan, by default I overvalue him and because Chuck isn’t a Blazer fan, his opinion is more valid because of that. Which ironically, is the type of ish that I am talking about.

I’d you took the time to look, in the few posts I have made throughout you would more than likely find that Chuck and I have a fairly similar view on CJ.

Where we deviate is the value of Simmons, and even with that, I don’t think we are too far apart.

I don't think Chuck's opinion is more valid than yours. It's you who came in and accused his opinion of being the product of bias. Which is complete nonsense. Yes, he is preaching accuracy. Do you think referring to 3 1sts and 3 swaps as 6 1sts is accurate?

I do not think that it is an accurate representation, control would have been better verbiage.

You keep using the word bias and want to point out others, but you haven’t acknowledged your own. Does your friendship/modship with Chuck not impact your ability to accurately assess what he says/does?

[Texas Chuck]

It's wild to me all this bias talk. I'm supposedly the bad guy here and I'm getting accused of bias no one has remotely been able to substantiate and I've gone out of my way not to accuse anyone else of any bias.

But since apparently its okay to call certain posters out for bias, but oddly enough I've yet to see one poster accuse someone else of their own fanbase of bias. Which is natural of course because we don't see our own bias as bias, just the other guys.

I wish you'd all knock that off though. We all have biases of various kinds. I freely admit I have them, though this bias against Blazer fans isn't one I am aware I have. I just have bias against inconsistent takes.

[Blazer1776]

[

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

So let's talk about this. As far as I can tell this is in reference to either or both of these:

The post you quoted. Do you agree or disagree that a swap is quite different from an outright 1st? If you agree, what is the issue of me asking for accuracy? IF you disagree, I'd love to hear why as maybe I am missing something. And I still have no idea at all how this relates to me supposedly disliking Blazer fans. You will have to fill me in more on that.

Roy demanding evidence from me to support my position while he, like me and most posters, uses a combination of evidence and narrative. Earlier itt he cited some evidence in a CJ/Curry debate. Then demanded I present some in response. Which I did. Which showed both that the evidence he posted was inaccurate(but whatever innocent mistakes happen) but more importantly he outright ignored the evidence because it didn't show what he wanted.

But again whatever, Roy is free to not have to be accountable and move on. I didn't say one thing about it to him and just dropped it. Until he again demanded evidence. And not only did he demand more evidence after ignoring a bunch of previous evidence he then went on to suggest that his belief that Simmons might not be an all-star in the West was somehow more relevant than the actual historical record of all-star games.

Now its worth noting that making an all-star game or not is only so important, but yeah I do think accuracy is important. And yes I think if you are going to demand evidence you should acknowledge it when given even when unfavorable.

I just found it rather ironic that you specifically were demanding accuracy (which I inherently have no issue with).

My issue lies with the fact that I believe you have a dislike for certain Blazer fans and that feeds into your ability/want/need to objectively look at things surrounding the Blazer franchise. Simple as that.

Feel free to respond, I will read it. I derailed this thread enough so I won’t be responding to this derailment any longer.

My apologies for that.

[Roy The Natural]

It's wild to me all this bias talk. I'm supposedly the bad guy here and I'm getting accused of bias no one has remotely been able to substantiate and I've gone out of my way not to accuse anyone else of any bias.

But since apparently its okay to call certain posters out for bias, but oddly enough I've yet to see one poster accuse someone else of their own fanbase of bias. Which is natural of course because we don't see our own bias as bias, just the other guys.

I wish you'd all knock that off though. We all have biases of various kinds. I freely admit I have them, though this bias against Blazer fans isn't one I am aware I have. I just have bias against inconsistent takes.

The only time I think your Bias shows up is via overvaluing Curry who has been in Dallas and been pretty solid for them a myriad of times. I don't agree that you are "biased" I just don't agree with your valuations and I think you're more often than not obtuse in defining how you come to them. That's all.

[BullyKing]

Here's what both of them being on the fringe looks like: last year, CJ McCollum was the 9th ranked backcourt guy in the West all-star vote and Simmons was the 8th ranked backcourt guy in the East. Simmons was comfortably ranked between Russell Westbrook and Fred VanVleet. And since then, Simmons has had a bad postseason flame-out that probably puts him on the outside looking in with CJ.

https://www.nba.com/news/2021-nba-all-star-game-starters-revealed

Now, that's heavily skewed towards fan perception-- CJ is way lower on player rankings than Simmons-- but if he plays for Philly or otherwise, you're not guaranteeing Simmons an all-star appearance in 2022. And if Dame gets hurt and Portland stays afloat, CJ probably has a reasonable chance at an ASG appearance, too-- he could easily get enough best-player-not-to-make-an-ASG hype like Conley did last year.

Ben Simmons has played four seasons in the NBA and made the all-star team in three of them. The one year he didn't he was rookie of the year.

CJ McCollum has played eight seasons in the NBA and never made an all-star team.

No matter what mental gymnastics you go through, calling both of them fringe all-stars will never be accurate.

What years would Simmons make it in the West as a guard? Who's spot is he taking?

If it's your contention that Simmons only made the all-star team for the last years because he was in the East then you should prove it. Stop making statements and then demanding others to prove you wrong.

[Texas Chuck]

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

Secondly, you have no idea how I value McCollum, however you are making an assumption that because I am a Blazer fan, by default I overvalue him and because Chuck isn’t a Blazer fan, his opinion is more valid because of that. Which ironically, is the type of ish that I am talking about.

I’d you took the time to look, in the few posts I have made throughout you would more than likely find that Chuck and I have a fairly similar view on CJ.

Where we deviate is the value of Simmons, and even with that, I don’t think we are too far apart.

I don't think Chuck's opinion is more valid than yours. It's you who came in and accused his opinion of being the product of bias. Which is complete nonsense. Yes, he is preaching accuracy. Do you think referring to 3 1sts and 3 swaps as 6 1sts is accurate?

I do not think that it is an accurate representation, control would have been better verbiage.

You keep using the word bias and want to point out others, but you haven’t acknowledged your own. Does your friendship/modship with Chuck not impact your ability to accurately assess what he says/does?

Talk to me. I'm right here. And trust me I am showing remarkable restraint or the opposite of control. If you had made these comments towards any other poster besides me then continued not to provide any support for your accusations I would have to step in as a Mod and say this needs to not be directly so personally.

But I've allowed all of this. I've not blue fonted any comments as coming from a board mod but have spoken solely as a poster.

But your issues need to be directed to me. I appreciate Bully's support, but I don't need anyone to fight my battles. I'm a stand-up guy. I take ownership of my own posts and always have.

[BullyKing]

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

Secondly, you have no idea how I value McCollum, however you are making an assumption that because I am a Blazer fan, by default I overvalue him and because Chuck isn’t a Blazer fan, his opinion is more valid because of that. Which ironically, is the type of ish that I am talking about.

I’d you took the time to look, in the few posts I have made throughout you would more than likely find that Chuck and I have a fairly similar view on CJ.

Where we deviate is the value of Simmons, and even with that, I don’t think we are too far apart.

I don't think Chuck's opinion is more valid than yours. It's you who came in and accused his opinion of being the product of bias. Which is complete nonsense. Yes, he is preaching accuracy. Do you think referring to 3 1sts and 3 swaps as 6 1sts is accurate?

To be fair... You also have a dog.in this fight via bias.

Is it my bias that thinks that its inaccurate to refer to 3 1sts and 3 swaps as 6 1sts? To me that's just an obvious fact. Or is that I'm biased towards Chuck? I can't even keep up with it anymore.

[Texas Chuck]

My issue lies with the fact that I believe you have a dislike for certain Blazer fans and that feeds into your ability/want/need to objectively look at things surrounding the Blazer franchise. Simple as that.

Feel free to respond, I will read it. I derailed this thread enough so I won’t be responding to this derailment any longer.

My apologies for that.

So since you concede you have largely been a lurker, I'm unaware what threads you read and don't. So let me ask, do you mostly read Blazers threads and not every topic? If so, then I understand how you got here and its disappointing you reached the conclusions you have regarding me, but understandable. As Bully mentioned earlier, you aren't the first and won't be the last poster and from every fanbase to accuse me of this.

However, if you read a large cross-section of topics you will see I comment on most of them and certainly all of the big ones like Simmons here. And that I am outspoken and have strong opinions and don't gladly suffer bad or inconsistent takes. Which should make it clear my issue isn't with whatever Blazer posters I supposedly don't like.

[TradeMachine2]

[

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

So let's talk about this. As far as I can tell this is in reference to either or both of these:

The post you quoted. Do you agree or disagree that a swap is quite different from an outright 1st? If you agree, what is the issue of me asking for accuracy? IF you disagree, I'd love to hear why as maybe I am missing something. And I still have no idea at all how this relates to me supposedly disliking Blazer fans. You will have to fill me in more on that.

Roy demanding evidence from me to support my position while he, like me and most posters, uses a combination of evidence and narrative. Earlier itt he cited some evidence in a CJ/Curry debate. Then demanded I present some in response. Which I did. Which showed both that the evidence he posted was inaccurate(but whatever innocent mistakes happen) but more importantly he outright ignored the evidence because it didn't show what he wanted.

But again whatever, Roy is free to not have to be accountable and move on. I didn't say one thing about it to him and just dropped it. Until he again demanded evidence. And not only did he demand more evidence after ignoring a bunch of previous evidence he then went on to suggest that his belief that Simmons might not be an all-star in the West was somehow more relevant than the actual historical record of all-star games.

Now its worth noting that making an all-star game or not is only so important, but yeah I do think accuracy is important. And yes I think if you are going to demand evidence you should acknowledge it when given even when unfavorable.

LOL this is a moderator on this forum??? This dude more sensitive than Ben Simmons.

[TradeMachine2]

Talk to me. I'm right here. And trust me I am showing remarkable restraint or the opposite of control. If you had made these comments towards any other poster besides me then continued not to provide any support for your accusations I would have to step in as a Mod and say this needs to not be directly so personally.

This forreal?

[BullyKing]

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

Secondly, you have no idea how I value McCollum, however you are making an assumption that because I am a Blazer fan, by default I overvalue him and because Chuck isn’t a Blazer fan, his opinion is more valid because of that. Which ironically, is the type of ish that I am talking about.

I’d you took the time to look, in the few posts I have made throughout you would more than likely find that Chuck and I have a fairly similar view on CJ.

Where we deviate is the value of Simmons, and even with that, I don’t think we are too far apart.

I don't think Chuck's opinion is more valid than yours. It's you who came in and accused his opinion of being the product of bias. Which is complete nonsense. Yes, he is preaching accuracy. Do you think referring to 3 1sts and 3 swaps as 6 1sts is accurate?

I do not think that it is an accurate representation, control would have been better verbiage.

You keep using the word bias and want to point out others, but you haven’t acknowledged your own. Does your friendship/modship with Chuck not impact your ability to accurately assess what he says/does?

Yep, you nailed me. I'm biased towards Chuck as evidenced by the fact that I waded into this thread today specifically to disagree with something he said.

And you accusing of "using the word bias and want to point out others" is beyond absurd. You introduced it by calling Chuck biased against Portland for reasons? and now you repeat it claiming that I am biased towards Chuck. Do you see the pattern here? If someone has a different opinion than yours, you simply just chalk it up some unknown bias.

[babyjax13]

Let me reiterate I am not saying these numbers should be used as gospel for the difference in impact. But just sharing them with Roy out of a spirit of goodwill. They do not represent my personal views in any way. It's simply data for people to do with as they wish. I do not believe trade value can be assigned by plugging numbers into a formula and waiting for it to spit out the correct answer.

And for what its worth, Raptor says something different than what he had when I look:

CJ McCollum last 2 years:
6 Wins above Replacement
4.8 Wins above Replacement

Currry last 2 years

3.1 Wins above Replacement
2.5 Wins above Replacement

Not seeing where CJ has 4x the impact as was previously declared.



RPM:
CJ McCollum 8.42 wins
Seth Curry 4.71 wins

PIPM (LEBRON)
CJ 4.70 wins
Curry 2.50 wins



EPM Wins:

CJ 6.7
Curry 4.6

RAPM (3 year I believe, not wins but just value):
CJ 2.9
Curry 2.1

Here is the aforementioned post.

[Texas Chuck]

It's wild to me all this bias talk. I'm supposedly the bad guy here and I'm getting accused of bias no one has remotely been able to substantiate and I've gone out of my way not to accuse anyone else of any bias.

But since apparently its okay to call certain posters out for bias, but oddly enough I've yet to see one poster accuse someone else of their own fanbase of bias. Which is natural of course because we don't see our own bias as bias, just the other guys.

I wish you'd all knock that off though. We all have biases of various kinds. I freely admit I have them, though this bias against Blazer fans isn't one I am aware I have. I just have bias against inconsistent takes.

The only time I think your Bias shows up is via overvaluing Curry who has been in Dallas and been pretty solid for them a myriad of times. I don't agree that you are "biased" I just don't agree with your valuations and I think you're more often than not obtuse in defining how you come to them. That's all.

Not biased, just obtuse. Easy to say when you ignore the statistical information I provide on a topic, isn't it? I find it odd that today's accuser finds that I apparently dislike you and that leads me to bias, but you have now called me obtuse multiple times itt and he doesn't find your clear disdain for me to be hindering your ability to be objective.

And its funny that I supposedly overvalue Curry because I'm a homer Mavs fan I guess yet I tried for a long time to trade Curry for Richardson before it actually happened and in every single version of those deals I added value to Curry to get Richardson but IRL value was added to Richardson to get Curry.

I literally undervalued him. And he just had a really good follow up season in Philly so yeah I don't think his value has gone down. Crazy homer takes by me I guess.....

[BullyKing]

[

It honestly doesn’t matter who he was responding to, when he is preaching accuracy and accountability in posting.

So let's talk about this. As far as I can tell this is in reference to either or both of these:

The post you quoted. Do you agree or disagree that a swap is quite different from an outright 1st? If you agree, what is the issue of me asking for accuracy? IF you disagree, I'd love to hear why as maybe I am missing something. And I still have no idea at all how this relates to me supposedly disliking Blazer fans. You will have to fill me in more on that.

Roy demanding evidence from me to support my position while he, like me and most posters, uses a combination of evidence and narrative. Earlier itt he cited some evidence in a CJ/Curry debate. Then demanded I present some in response. Which I did. Which showed both that the evidence he posted was inaccurate(but whatever innocent mistakes happen) but more importantly he outright ignored the evidence because it didn't show what he wanted.

But again whatever, Roy is free to not have to be accountable and move on. I didn't say one thing about it to him and just dropped it. Until he again demanded evidence. And not only did he demand more evidence after ignoring a bunch of previous evidence he then went on to suggest that his belief that Simmons might not be an all-star in the West was somehow more relevant than the actual historical record of all-star games.

Now its worth noting that making an all-star game or not is only so important, but yeah I do think accuracy is important. And yes I think if you are going to demand evidence you should acknowledge it when given even when unfavorable.

LOL this is a moderator on this forum??? This dude more sensitive than Ben Simmons.

Thanks for coming by. Perhaps some more time as a lurker will teach you that we don't permit posts of this nature towards anyone.

[BullyKing]

It's wild to me all this bias talk. I'm supposedly the bad guy here and I'm getting accused of bias no one has remotely been able to substantiate and I've gone out of my way not to accuse anyone else of any bias.

But since apparently its okay to call certain posters out for bias, but oddly enough I've yet to see one poster accuse someone else of their own fanbase of bias. Which is natural of course because we don't see our own bias as bias, just the other guys.

I wish you'd all knock that off though. We all have biases of various kinds. I freely admit I have them, though this bias against Blazer fans isn't one I am aware I have. I just have bias against inconsistent takes.

The only time I think your Bias shows up is via overvaluing Curry who has been in Dallas and been pretty solid for them a myriad of times. I don't agree that you are "biased" I just don't agree with your valuations and I think you're more often than not obtuse in defining how you come to them. That's all.

Funny because Chuck and I went back and forth repeatedly about Curry for Richardson swap before it happened and both of us had Dallas being the one to add a non-significant asset. We were both wrong and undervalued Curry.

[BlazersBroncos]

Avoiding the drama that Seth Curry has caused us, and curses be on his name, I would probably do 3 FRP for Ben if they were all lotto protected. I presume Morey is demanding UNP or Top-3 on the picks, which is no dice for me.

[Texas Chuck]

[Here is the aforementioned post.

As always we don't deserve you, but we are so glad to have you part of this community.