Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0

[LAL1947]

If New Orleans offered Zion + Jonas in a trade for Ayton + Bridges, do y'all think the Suns would bite?

If NOP have to add FRPs, how many?

I wanna see my boy Ingram with a team built around him. Something like this...

Gollum / Graham
Bridges / Lewis
Herb / Murphy
Ingram / Nance
Ayton / Hayes

BI at PF, Bridges at SG because McCollum, Graham and GTAlvarado are all small guards, Herb at SF, Ayton at C.

[giberish]

1-10, how dumb would it be for Marks to let Kyrie opt out and then just not offer him a deal?

6

I'd want nothing to do with him, but you'd lose that talent and have nothing to replace him with.

Sign him and then later trade him

If Kyrie on a new 4yr/35%max/~$200M contract is considered somewhere between a bad contract and a horrible contract, then what are the Nets trades for? Who's giving up value for him? Especially if they sign him, try again next year (because they'd have to keep him until mid season before even being legally allowed to trade him), then look to trade him after yet another problem with the team. How dry is the Kyrie Irving trade market at that point?

[Resistance]

If New Orleans offered Zion + Jonas in a trade for Ayton + Bridges, do y'all think the Suns would bite?

I wanna see my boy Ingram with a team built around him. Something like this...

Gollum / Graham
Bridges / Murphy
Herb / Murphy
Ingram / Nance
Ayton / Hayes

BI at PF, Bridges at SG because Gollum, Graham and GTAlverado are all small guards, Herb at SF, Ayton at C.

It will take some serious work figuring things out because of Ayton needing a contract.

Ayton

2021-22............$12,632,950
2022-23......QO: $16,422,835......Cap Hold: $31,582,376


93. What is "Base Year Compensation?" How does it affect trades?

Base Year Compensation (BYC) is mostly an artifact of previous collective bargaining agreements. Its intent was to prevent teams from signing free agents to new contracts with salaries specifically intended to help facilitate trades. BYC was triggered when a team was over the cap and re-signed a player using the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception with a raise over 20%. Once triggered, BYC temporarily lowered the player's outgoing salary for salary-matching purposes (only), and therefore reduced or eliminated teams' ability to target salaries for trade purposes.

The 2011 CBA mostly eliminated BYC -- in fact, the term "Base Year Compensation" was removed from the agreement entirely. The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 92). If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing1, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

For example, a player made $5 million last season, is a Larry Bird free agent, and re-signs with his previous team for $10 million. The team is a taxpayer, and therefore is over the cap following the signing. The signing is part of a sign-and-trade transaction for another team's $10 million player. Since the BYC conditions were satisfied the player's outgoing salary for the trade portion of this sign-and-trade transaction is $5 million. This trade therefore would not be allowed, even though the players' new salaries match, since a taxpaying team cannot trade a $5 million player for a $10 million player. The highest salary this team could acquire in a sign-and-trade arrangement is $6.35 million2.

Once a sign-and-trade is complete, the player's actual salary is included in his new team's team salary.

In lieu of the previous BYC rules for ordinary trades, teams are now prohibited from trading players for three months or until January 15 (whichever is later), instead of December 15, when the signing satisfies the BYC critieria3 (see question number 101). The extension to January 15 applies to both sign-and-trade transactions and regular signings.

[LAL1947]

If New Orleans offered Zion + Jonas in a trade for Ayton + Bridges, do y'all think the Suns would bite?

I wanna see my boy Ingram with a team built around him. Something like this...

Gollum / Graham
Bridges / Lewis
Herb / Murphy
Ingram / Nance
Ayton / Hayes

BI at PF, Bridges at SG because McCollum, Graham and GTAlvarado are all small guards, Herb at SF, Ayton at C.

It will take some serious work figuring things out because of Ayton needing a contract.

Well, I was wondering if the Suns could be tempted into doing this because of Zion's potential and star power, even though he missed all of this season.

Could it be done in 2 separate trades?

1) Bridges ($21m) for Jonas ($14.7m) + FRPs + filler.

2) Ayton ($15.79m) for Zion ($13.54m).

If I'm reading the BYC quote you provided right, does that mean Ayton's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary ($12.63m) or 50% of his new salary (let's say he gets the max of $31.58m), whichever is greater... while NOP's total salaries go well into luxury tax space since the full $31.58m counts against their cap?

[Resistance]

I need to sleep because I am struggling to keep focused, but will give it a shot and hope no errors.

Phoenix
In: Zion, Jonas
Out: Ayton, Bridges

New Orleans
In: Ayton, Bridges
Out: Zion, Jonas


Now to apply the BYC Numbers for Ayton.

The Cap Hold for Ayton from Spotrac is $31,582,376.
$122,000,000 (Salary Cap) * 25% = $30,500,000

I used the Spotrac number for now. It won't be that difficult to fix if I decide to go to the $30.5 million number.


...................Incoming...........Outgoing..
................To New Orleans...From Phoenix
Ayton..........$31,582,376.......$15,791,188
Bridges........$21,000,000.......$21,000,000
_______________________________________
.................$52,582,376.......$36,791,188

...................Incoming............Outgoing...
.................To Phoenix....From New Orleans
Zion............$13,534,817......$13,534,817
Vucevic........$14,700,000......$14,700,000
_______________________________________
.................$28,234,817......$28,234,817


Phoenix
In: Zion [$13,534,817], Jonas [$14,700,000] = $28,234,817
Out: Ayton [$15,791,188], Bridges [$21,000,000] = $36,791,188


New Orleans
In: Ayton [$31,582,376], Bridges [$21,000,000] = $52,582,376
Out: Zion [$13,534,817], Jonas [$14,700,000] = $28,234,817


Phoenix is sending out $36,791,188 and taking back $28,234,817, so they are okay per the CBA.

New Orleans is sending out $28,234,817 and taking back $52,582,376, so they will have a problem with the CBA.


New Orleans needs to send out more salary, so work backwards to find out how much more.


$52,582,376 [Incoming for New Orleans)

$52,582,376 - $100,000 = $52,482,376
$52,482,376 / 1.25 = $41,985,901

Proof
$41,985,901 * 1.25 = $52,482,376
$52,482,376 + $100,000 = $52,582,376


$41,985,901 [Per CBA] - $28,234,817 [Zion + Vucevic] = $13,751,083.80


It appears that New Orleans needs to send out $13,751,084 in additional salary.

_________________________

I would like to continue, but this is all that I can do for now.

[Resistance]

If New Orleans offered Zion + Jonas in a trade for Ayton + Bridges, do y'all think the Suns would bite?

I wanna see my boy Ingram with a team built around him. Something like this...

Gollum / Graham
Bridges / Lewis
Herb / Murphy
Ingram / Nance
Ayton / Hayes

BI at PF, Bridges at SG because McCollum, Graham and GTAlvarado are all small guards, Herb at SF, Ayton at C.

It will take some serious work figuring things out because of Ayton needing a contract.

Well, I was wondering if the Suns could be tempted into doing this because of Zion's potential and star power, even though he missed all of this season.

Could it be done in 2 separate trades?

1) Bridges ($21m) for Jonas ($14.7m) + FRPs + filler.

2) Ayton ($15.79m) for Zion ($13.54m).

If I'm reading the BYC quote you provided right, does that mean Ayton's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary ($12.63m) or 50% of his new salary (let's say he gets the max of $31.58m), whichever is greater... while NOP's total salaries go well into luxury tax space since the full $31.58m counts against their cap?

With an incoming Sign & Trade, New Orleans will need to watch the team salary number versus the Apron/Hard Cap ($155,668,206).

20. Other than financial penalties, are there restrictions on taxpaying teams? What is the "Apron?" What is the hard cap?

Teams with a team salary above the Apron have the following additional restrictions. Note that they use the team salary at the conclusion of any transaction to determine whether a team is over the Apron (for example in a sign-and-trade transaction, they look at what the team salary would be after the trade is completed).

* Teams above the Apron cannot use the Bi-Annual exception (see question number 25).

* Teams above the Apron have a smaller Mid-Level exception (see question number 25). It can be used to offer a mid-level contract no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four. The starting salary is also lower.

* Teams cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). Note that they calculate whether the team is over or under the Apron after the full sign-and-trade transaction, and not just the signing.

* Teams above the Apron do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 43). Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting up to the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the Apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

[jayjaysee]

NOP having that 17 million dollar TPE really makes it pretty easy to get around BYC.

Send Nance+Lewis/Hayes - or both+future first to Washington for Kuzma. It’s an overpay, but whatever. It’s just an example.

Then correct the value for Phoenix. Which is really far off IMO. They only way I see it as fixable is if Phoenix just isn’t willing to carry 3 (4 with CP) max contracts.

I think assuming that’s the case, NOP has to add 8th if Zion can pass a physical and appears interested in playing basketball.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I thought this was a pretty fun graphic. Any additions?

Read on Twitter

[Godaddycurse]

I thought this was a pretty fun graphic. Any additions?

Read on Twitter

Embiid on the top right corner for his flops

[LAL1947]

Spoiler:

I need to sleep because I am struggling to keep focused, but will give it a shot and hope no errors.

Phoenix
In: Zion, Jonas
Out: Ayton, Bridges

New Orleans
In: Ayton, Bridges
Out: Zion, Jonas


Now to apply the BYC Numbers for Ayton.

The Cap Hold for Ayton from Spotrac is $31,582,376.
$122,000,000 (Salary Cap) * 25% = $30,500,000

I used the Spotrac number for now. It won't be that difficult to fix if I decide to go to the $30.5 million number.


...................Incoming...........Outgoing..
................To New Orleans...From Phoenix
Ayton..........$31,582,376.......$15,791,188
Bridges........$21,000,000.......$21,000,000
_______________________________________
.................$52,582,376.......$36,791,188

...................Incoming............Outgoing...
.................To Phoenix....From New Orleans
Zion............$13,534,817......$13,534,817
Vucevic........$14,700,000......$14,700,000
_______________________________________
.................$28,234,817......$28,234,817


Phoenix
In: Zion [$13,534,817], Jonas [$14,700,000] = $28,234,817
Out: Ayton [$15,791,188], Bridges [$21,000,000] = $36,791,188


New Orleans
In: Ayton [$31,582,376], Bridges [$21,000,000] = $52,582,376
Out: Zion [$13,534,817], Jonas [$14,700,000] = $28,234,817


Phoenix is sending out $36,791,188 and taking back $28,234,817, so they are okay per the CBA.

New Orleans is sending out $28,234,817 and taking back $52,582,376, so they will have a problem with the CBA.


New Orleans needs to send out more salary, so work backwards to find out how much more.


$52,582,376 [Incoming for New Orleans)

$52,582,376 - $100,000 = $52,482,376
$52,482,376 / 1.25 = $41,985,901

Proof
$41,985,901 * 1.25 = $52,482,376
$52,482,376 + $100,000 = $52,582,376


$41,985,901 [Per CBA] - $28,234,817 [Zion + Vucevic] = $13,751,083.80


It appears that New Orleans needs to send out $13,751,084 in additional salary.

_________________________

I would like to continue, but this is all that I can do for now.

Thanks for the effort, Resistance!

Looks like you've handed Dave Griffin the answers to the test.

[LAL1947]

NOP having that 17 million dollar TPE really makes it pretty easy to get around BYC.

Send Nance+Lewis/Hayes - or both+future first to Washington for Kuzma. It’s an overpay, but whatever. It’s just an example.

Then correct the value for Phoenix. Which is really far off IMO. They only way I see it as fixable is if Phoenix just isn’t willing to carry 3 (4 with CP) max contracts.

I think assuming that’s the case, NOP has to add 8th if Zion can pass a physical and appears interested in playing basketball.

That's my train of thought... how willing is Phoenix to carry 4 max contracts? Seems like Gayle Benson would be more willing to do that. Plus they might be drawn by Zion's potential star power. Nice idea using the TPE in a trade with the Wiz btw, reuniting BI and Kuz would be the icing on the cake!

If I was NOP, I'd be fine adding the 8th and another FRP to get it done. This team looks like a winner, well, except for Gollum.

McCollum.......... Graham
Bridges............. Lewis
Herb................. Murphy
Ingram.............. Kuzma
Ayton................ Hayes

[MoneyTalks41890]

Fine incoming, but to be honest… I kinda like the idea

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[babyjax13]

Fine incoming, but to be honest… I kinda like the idea

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Could you imagine if LeBron tweeted something like this instead

[eminence]

What could Utah reasonably ask for in a Mitchell for DLo swap?

[Colbinii]

What could Utah reasonably ask for in a Mitchell for DLo swap?

Doing it at draft night--18, Unprotected 2023 1st, McDaniels?

[MoneyTalks41890]

What could Utah reasonably ask for in a Mitchell for DLo swap?

I don’t think there’s anything there unless it’s a Brooklyn pick type package.

[Godaddycurse]

What could Utah reasonably ask for in a Mitchell for DLo swap?

Doing it at draft night--18, Unprotected 2023 1st, McDaniels?

That's REALLY light. New york should outbid that fairly easily??

[eminence]

What could Utah reasonably ask for in a Mitchell for DLo swap?

Doing it at draft night--18, Unprotected 2023 1st, McDaniels?

That's REALLY light. New york should outbid that fairly easily??

Unless they put Barrett+multiple picks in the deal I don't think NY can beat that bid easily.

[Colbinii]

What could Utah reasonably ask for in a Mitchell for DLo swap?

Doing it at draft night--18, Unprotected 2023 1st, McDaniels?

That's REALLY light. New york should outbid that fairly easily??

How?

What exactly is the market for Mitchell and more importantly--who is offering win-now players AND picks/prospects?

McDaniels is a tremendous wing prospect, arguably the best 3+D prospect currently in the NBA.

[Godaddycurse]

McDaniels is a tremendous wing prospect, arguably the best 3+D prospect currently in the NBA.

Nah that's Herb Jones. McDaniels' 3 pt shooting remained meh this year. He didn't have that great of a year imo.