Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random

[Scoot McGroot]

Is this basically correct.

If a team trades 2 players with for 1 player, who's expiring, then let that player walk they clear salary of that player they trade for right?

example; I was thinking of Gabe/Maxi for Vucevic. That way Lakers get Center they need for a season and clear rostor spot, at worse you can do a short 1+1 type of contract or let him walk and clear cap space of $20mil for 2026 free agency.

If you trade 2 expirings for 1 expiring and all them money is about the same, you’ve cleared nothing in terms of salary, yet added nothing. You’ve consolidated or cleared a roster spot.

Technically they add more salary since they have to pay for 1 more played from freed up roster spot. Many people ignore the roster hold when calculating how much salary needed to clear to duck aprons

Maybe. I wasn’t discussing two specific players for one, as I was so much the concept. Just, in general, if you move $25m for $25m, that’s not adding or cutting salary. It’s just swapping it. It’s kind of how sometimes people say “they get off Dame’s salary” but just swap it for Beal, and it’s largely the same, so there’s no money “gotten off of”.

But also, assume that maybe this trade would take them from 15 to 14 and they dont need to worry about the roster spot hold?

[Godaddycurse]

Am i evil for wanting Brooklyn (or Detroit) to throw a lot of money at Turner and make Indiana's life difficult? Ie what Houston did to FVV

[Scoot McGroot]

Am i evil for wanting Brooklyn (or Detroit) to throw a lot of money at Turner and make Indiana's life difficult? Ie what Houston did to FVV

A little, yeah


But it doesn’t make sense for Brooklyn unless they also add Giannis, while dealing Claxton there? Myles and Clax is a pretty bad combo, and it would tie up so much money that rebuilding would be more difficult overall?

As for Detroit, with Cade hitting the 30% escalator with his All NBA nod, they’d have to clear a bunch of cap to be able to make a competitive offer, let alone throwing a bunch of cap at Myles to kind of blindside him, a la FVV.

[Godaddycurse]

Am i evil for wanting Brooklyn (or Detroit) to throw a lot of money at Turner and make Indiana's life difficult? Ie what Houston did to FVV

A little, yeah


But it doesn’t make sense for Brooklyn unless they also add Giannis, while dealing Claxton there? Myles and Clax is a pretty bad combo, and it would tie up so much money that rebuilding would be more difficult overall?

As for Detroit, with Cade hitting the 30% escalator with his All NBA nod, they’d have to clear a bunch of cap to be able to make a competitive offer, let alone throwing a bunch of cap at Myles to kind of blindside him, a la FVV.

i was thinking of a large front loaded/declining or flat contract for Turner for Brooklyn. trade cam and claxton for expirings and pick(s) this year and they should still have gobs of capspace in 2026. i think turner is a better draw for FA than claxton/johnson would be, and they would get picks from cam and claxton trade on top. They need to reach the salary floor one way or another

[ReggiesKnicks]

Am i evil for wanting Brooklyn (or Detroit) to throw a lot of money at Turner and make Indiana's life difficult? Ie what Houston did to FVV

A little, yeah


But it doesn’t make sense for Brooklyn unless they also add Giannis, while dealing Claxton there? Myles and Clax is a pretty bad combo, and it would tie up so much money that rebuilding would be more difficult overall?

As for Detroit, with Cade hitting the 30% escalator with his All NBA nod, they’d have to clear a bunch of cap to be able to make a competitive offer, let alone throwing a bunch of cap at Myles to kind of blindside him, a la FVV.

i was thinking of a large front loaded/declining or flat contract for Turner for Brooklyn. trade cam and claxton for expirings and pick(s) this year and they should still have gobs of capspace in 2026. i think turner is a better draw for FA than claxton/johnson would be, and they would get picks from cam and claxton trade on top. They need to reach the salary floor one way or another

While Turner may be a better draw than Claxton/Cam, I don't think any of those 3 players move the needle in any meaningful way in luring free agents to Brooklyn.

[Godaddycurse]

A little, yeah


But it doesn’t make sense for Brooklyn unless they also add Giannis, while dealing Claxton there? Myles and Clax is a pretty bad combo, and it would tie up so much money that rebuilding would be more difficult overall?

As for Detroit, with Cade hitting the 30% escalator with his All NBA nod, they’d have to clear a bunch of cap to be able to make a competitive offer, let alone throwing a bunch of cap at Myles to kind of blindside him, a la FVV.

i was thinking of a large front loaded/declining or flat contract for Turner for Brooklyn. trade cam and claxton for expirings and pick(s) this year and they should still have gobs of capspace in 2026. i think turner is a better draw for FA than claxton/johnson would be, and they would get picks from cam and claxton trade on top. They need to reach the salary floor one way or another

While Turner may be a better draw than Claxton/Cam, I don't think any of those 3 players move the needle in any meaningful way in luring free agents to Brooklyn.

yea but theres just so few options in FA this year. Best choice would still be to eat salary for assets i suppose but if thats not on the table then it seems like a decent use of capspace to spend it on Turner compared to the alternatives available.

For detroit i really like the fit of Turner w/ Cade. They would need to dump Harris, which may cost a 1st but i think thats worth it?

[brackdan70]

i was thinking of a large front loaded/declining or flat contract for Turner for Brooklyn. trade cam and claxton for expirings and pick(s) this year and they should still have gobs of capspace in 2026. i think turner is a better draw for FA than claxton/johnson would be, and they would get picks from cam and claxton trade on top. They need to reach the salary floor one way or another

While Turner may be a better draw than Claxton/Cam, I don't think any of those 3 players move the needle in any meaningful way in luring free agents to Brooklyn.

yea but theres just so few options in FA this year. Best choice would still be to eat salary for assets i suppose but if thats not on the table then it seems like a decent use of capspace to spend it on Turner compared to the alternatives available.

For detroit i really like the fit of Turner w/ Cade. They would need to dump Harris, which may cost a 1st but i think thats worth it?

Indiana appear to have plenty of room to sign him and stay well under the second Apron. It would be the first year of lux tax for them and they can skip it in future years. I don’t know how cheap they are but I would guess they don’t pinch Pennies with Turner?
Yes you are evil

[Scoot McGroot]

i was thinking of a large front loaded/declining or flat contract for Turner for Brooklyn. trade cam and claxton for expirings and pick(s) this year and they should still have gobs of capspace in 2026. i think turner is a better draw for FA than claxton/johnson would be, and they would get picks from cam and claxton trade on top. They need to reach the salary floor one way or another

While Turner may be a better draw than Claxton/Cam, I don't think any of those 3 players move the needle in any meaningful way in luring free agents to Brooklyn.

yea but theres just so few options in FA this year. Best choice would still be to eat salary for assets i suppose but if thats not on the table then it seems like a decent use of capspace to spend it on Turner compared to the alternatives available.

Maybe, but wouldn't an even better use be to sell Cam/Claxton for whatever picks they can get, and then get paid picks to eat contracts into their cap space up to the floor? Signing Myles to a contract that would hold little to no value on the trade market probably doesn't help more than eating contracts.

For detroit i really like the fit of Turner w/ Cade. They would need to dump Harris, which may cost a 1st but i think thats worth it?[/quote]

Just depends on if Brooklyn is willing to eat Harris at all? Even then, Detroit would max out around $40m if they renounced everyone (Timmy, Beasley, and Schroder)? Might need to clear a little more? But then, if they could get Myles to agree financially, why not approach Indy and try and negotiate directly?

Someone could absolutely figure out how to swoop in and steal Myles. I just think the odds are low overall, and that ultimately, the career long connection with Indy, along with the possibility of a no trade clause, could possibly keep him in Indy.

[K_chile22]

Nil starting to destroy the back half of the first round and beyond. Lotta guys I liked past the top 15 have withdrawn this year

Sort of. NIL is going to take out some prospects who are younger with a higher ceiling and lower floor with more unknown and mystique about them.

At the same time, older more NBA ready prospects with more refined skill-set will be filling the back-half of the 1st round and early 2nd.

Those guys were always there, but instead of being late firsts they were mid to late 2nds. As the years o one there will be more because guys are staying for NIL vs leaving to be late firsts as young guys but we're going to have to wait for guys to age out of college for that, for now the next few years are going to be thin classes

[Godaddycurse]

While Turner may be a better draw than Claxton/Cam, I don't think any of those 3 players move the needle in any meaningful way in luring free agents to Brooklyn.

yea but theres just so few options in FA this year. Best choice would still be to eat salary for assets i suppose but if thats not on the table then it seems like a decent use of capspace to spend it on Turner compared to the alternatives available.

Maybe, but wouldn't an even better use be to sell Cam/Claxton for whatever picks they can get, and then get paid picks to eat contracts into their cap space up to the floor? Signing Myles to a contract that would hold little to no value on the trade market probably doesn't help more than eating contracts.

Yes i said best choice would be to eat salary for assets. THe issue with BRooklyn also is they dont control their own picks in 2027 so they want to be competitive at that point and Turner helps them in that regard.

For detroit i really like the fit of Turner w/ Cade. They would need to dump Harris, which may cost a 1st but i think thats worth it?

Just depends on if Brooklyn is willing to eat Harris at all? Even then, Detroit would max out around $40m if they renounced everyone (Timmy, Beasley, and Schroder)? Might need to clear a little more? But then, if they could get Myles to agree financially, why not approach Indy and try and negotiate directly?

Someone could absolutely figure out how to swoop in and steal Myles. I just think the odds are low overall, and that ultimately, the career long connection with Indy, along with the possibility of a no trade clause, could possibly keep him in Indy.

Yea at the very least should make Indy bleed (more money) to keep Turner

[ReggiesKnicks]

Nil starting to destroy the back half of the first round and beyond. Lotta guys I liked past the top 15 have withdrawn this year

Sort of. NIL is going to take out some prospects who are younger with a higher ceiling and lower floor with more unknown and mystique about them.

At the same time, older more NBA ready prospects with more refined skill-set will be filling the back-half of the 1st round and early 2nd.

Those guys were always there, but instead of being late firsts they were mid to late 2nds. As the years o one there will be more because guys are staying for NIL vs leaving to be late firsts as young guys but we're going to have to wait for guys to age out of college for that, for now the next few years are going to be thin classes

We will have to let the statistical analysis tell us. From 2017-2022, ~20% of players picked from 28-36 in the draft were playoff rotation caliber players and roughly double that, ~40%, were rotation caliber in the regular season.

But you seem to be missing my main point, the late 1st and early 2nd is going to be players with 3-4 years of experience, meaning teams have a much stronger baseline for what they are as players and prospects.

Sure, there will be less boon-or-bust prospects, but the floor will be higher and the hit rate will be better.

[Texas Chuck]

Nil starting to destroy the back half of the first round and beyond. Lotta guys I liked past the top 15 have withdrawn this year

Sort of. NIL is going to take out some prospects who are younger with a higher ceiling and lower floor with more unknown and mystique about them.

At the same time, older more NBA ready prospects with more refined skill-set will be filling the back-half of the 1st round and early 2nd.

Those guys were always there, but instead of being late firsts they were mid to late 2nds. As the years o one there will be more because guys are staying for NIL vs leaving to be late firsts as young guys but we're going to have to wait for guys to age out of college for that, for now the next few years are going to be thin classes

I think this may be the only class really effected. What I think we are going to see is more NBA ready prospects and teams making better decisions outside of the lottery because they will have more information on players. We've been 3 decades now into basically picking the youngest guys and hoping their skills develop. I think we will see more drafts like we had in the 80s and early 90s where teams are getting guys ready to come in and help more immediately because they have 3 or 4 years of college.

I think NIL is going to be a boon for the NBA.

[Texas Chuck]

Does Mann for Gafford make sense?

Responding here as to not clutter your thread. Some? I'd want incentive for the Mavs--not much just some 2nds. Dallas would also need a Klay deal lined up I think. But Dallas doesn't really have a player like Mann and it wouldn't hurt to have one.

For the Hawks, I don't know how much they wanted Mann? If he was the real target in the Bogdan trade then they probably have no interest. If he was a contract they had to take, I think they'd be happy to turn him into a solid backup center who pairs beautifully with Trae.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Does Mann for Gafford make sense?

Responding here as to not clutter your thread. Some? I'd want incentive for the Mavs--not much just some 2nds. Dallas would also need a Klay deal lined up I think. But Dallas doesn't really have a player like Mann and it wouldn't hurt to have one.

For the Hawks, I don't know how much they wanted Mann? If he was the real target in the Bogdan trade then they probably have no interest. If he was a contract they had to take, I think they'd be happy to turn him into a solid backup center who pairs beautifully with Trae.

I was thinking it in part of a Gobert trade.

Gobert for Okongwu/Mann/22

Maybe Minnesota just keeps Mann though as he replaces NAW and gives them more gritty and defensive-minded guards who can't be relentlessly attacked by SGA/Luka.

Mann also just may be coveted in Atlanta. Trae can then always play with either Daniels or Mann next to him.

[Astaluego]

There aren't many starting-caliber point guards available. Would Quickley be a good target for the Wolves?

[ReggiesKnicks]

There aren't many starting-caliber point guards available. Would Quickley be a good target for the Wolves?

What makes him available?

[Godaddycurse]

Does Mann for Gafford make sense?

Responding here as to not clutter your thread. Some? I'd want incentive for the Mavs--not much just some 2nds. Dallas would also need a Klay deal lined up I think. But Dallas doesn't really have a player like Mann and it wouldn't hurt to have one.

For the Hawks, I don't know how much they wanted Mann? If he was the real target in the Bogdan trade then they probably have no interest. If he was a contract they had to take, I think they'd be happy to turn him into a solid backup center who pairs beautifully with Trae.

think 2nds for gafford into TPE makes more sense for both parties

[Godaddycurse]

There aren't many starting-caliber point guards available. Would Quickley be a good target for the Wolves?

What makes him available?

yea that part was weird. He's not available

[Scoot McGroot]

Yes i said best choice would be to eat salary for assets. THe issue with BRooklyn also is they dont control their own picks in 2027 so they want to be competitive at that point and Turner helps them in that regard.

I love Turner, but Brooklyn isn't going to remain competitive if the plan is to sign Turner to a huge declining contract while selling off the rest of the vets for draft picks.

Yea at the very least should make Indy bleed (more money) to keep Turner

Except Myles isn't restricted, so the risk is the Brooklyn ends up with Myles on a massively overpaid deal that they can't trade for assets, and that clogs up cap space that they can't then rebuild the team properly. It's a major risk for them, too.


Just because Masai messed up doesn't mean you need to wish it on other teams, too...

[Scoot McGroot]

Nil starting to destroy the back half of the first round and beyond. Lotta guys I liked past the top 15 have withdrawn this year

Sort of. NIL is going to take out some prospects who are younger with a higher ceiling and lower floor with more unknown and mystique about them.

At the same time, older more NBA ready prospects with more refined skill-set will be filling the back-half of the 1st round and early 2nd.

Those guys were always there, but instead of being late firsts they were mid to late 2nds. As the years o one there will be more because guys are staying for NIL vs leaving to be late firsts as young guys but we're going to have to wait for guys to age out of college for that, for now the next few years are going to be thin classes

Maybe, but also, NIL has kept some guys in college the last couple years, so those guys that would've gone in a year or two ago are coming out now. Relatively same numbers, just shifted everything a couple years.