MN-GSW draft day

[old rem]

Jefferson's game just does not fit our needs.

Sure. With GSW's dominant low-post scoring Biedrins, and their -9.65 RPG differential, I'm sure they have no need for the 20-10 Jefferson.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_ ... &prd=1#top

I can understand GSW being the worst team in the NBA giving up rebounds because of pace, but how in the world are you also last in the league in team rebounds yourself with that pace?

Per minute...Randolph's rebounding is not much less than Jefferson...and in THIS bad deal....GSW gives ANOTHER young PF plus a pick that...in this scenario,has us at #5 rather than 4 or better...in which case we take Monroe,who also can rebound. I am a HARDCORE advocate of GSW getting MORE rebounding..BUT this does the opposite. We give 3 bigs for one and whatever we may find mid draft.
Al Jeffs well known inability to do DEFENSE has been a problem for Minny..would become a problem for GSW. Our defensive tactics,are not too good,and rely a lot on the bigs defending at the rim. That's something Randolph + Wright can do. The offense is based on RUN and jump. That,Mags,Randolph,Wright,all do. Al Jeff and Gomes are more tuned to a HALF COURT style.

Biedrins will be healthy most of the next 10 years,will rebound. Nellie does not have "post up" in the game plan much and when we do that,Maggette is most apt to do a post up move

[don nelson]

I'm coming to the belief that gswhoops is about the only Warriors fan without a drinking problem. The rest seriously have me wondering where their heads are.

I'm curious, though.

How does Tayshaun Prince's value compare to Corey Maggette? I would think Prince would have more value because of his expiring contract, defense, and not being a blackhole.

And if Jefferson for Prince/#7 is fair value, wouldn't Jefferson have more value than Maggette/#5?

So then it becomes Gomes/#16/That extra Jeff value for Randolph/Wright?

Doesn't seem terribly off to me. Take out Wright and Gomes, add in Utah's pick?

Jefferson/#16/#23 for Randolph/Maggette/#5

Neither player fits the direction Golden State is heading which is to rebuild around their young core of players who are 20-26. Your comparison question about Maggette vs Prince is like debating being executed by firing squad or being hung by the neck until you are dead.

[old rem]

Actually, the issue is not so much contacts as it is 3 rotation players for one and a half...then a major draft pick for a minor one...

Who GSW gets at 3-6 can be Cousins,Favors,or Monroe. That....Randolph,Wright+ Maggette,is worth more to us than Jefferson. Saving cap space by getting rid of our young lotto big men? Uh...pass on that concept.

[john2jer]

I'm coming to the belief that gswhoops is about the only Warriors fan without a drinking problem. The rest seriously have me wondering where their heads are.

I'm curious, though.

How does Tayshaun Prince's value compare to Corey Maggette? I would think Prince would have more value because of his expiring contract, defense, and not being a blackhole.

And if Jefferson for Prince/#7 is fair value, wouldn't Jefferson have more value than Maggette/#5?

So then it becomes Gomes/#16/That extra Jeff value for Randolph/Wright?

Doesn't seem terribly off to me. Take out Wright and Gomes, add in Utah's pick?

Jefferson/#16/#23 for Randolph/Maggette/#5

Neither player fits the direction Golden State is heading which is to rebuild around their young core of players who are 20-26. Your comparison question about Maggette vs Prince is like debating being executed by firing squad or being hung by the neck until you are dead.

Try to read the whole thing. It has nothing to do with the Warriors and which they'd prefer. I'm talking Prince's league value vs Maggette's league value.

[Rashoismydad]

I guess I didnt think GS really considered wright a rotation player. I assumed they looked at him how the rest of the league did, a bust athlete, broke mans ty thomas. But by dropping Gomes and wright, it becomes Jefferson + 16 for Randolph, maggette and #5.

I understand what some GSW fans are saying in terms of value. But thats why I phrased it under the assumption GSW had pick 5 (or 6 even). Cousins and Favors, the top two big men prospects WILL be off the board by then. The rest (aldrich, whiteside, monroe, udoh, davis etc) can largely be lumped into the same tier. Theres going to be solid bigs available at 16, so I just didnt see much value difference between 5 and 16 in this years draft as its maybe a 1 tier difference.

Most teams want to combine lesser assets (randolph/maggette) to get the bigger assets (Jefferson). If you guys are so enamoured with Randolph, then theres nothing that really needs to be discussed here. My desire for randolph would be as a bench player for a 3 man big rotation of Love/Darko/Randolph. Not because I think hes going to be a star (I dont), but because the things he brings to the table are our weaknesses, and his weaknesses are Loves strengths.

Good luck.

[loserX]

I'm coming to the belief that gswhoops is about the only Warriors fan without a drinking problem. The rest seriously have me wondering where their heads are.

I'm curious, though.

How does Tayshaun Prince's value compare to Corey Maggette? I would think Prince would have more value because of his expiring contract, defense, and not being a blackhole.

And if Jefferson for Prince/#7 is fair value, wouldn't Jefferson have more value than Maggette/#5?

So then it becomes Gomes/#16/That extra Jeff value for Randolph/Wright?

Doesn't seem terribly off to me. Take out Wright and Gomes, add in Utah's pick?

Jefferson/#16/#23 for Randolph/Maggette/#5

Neither player fits the direction Golden State is heading which is to rebuild around their young core of players who are 20-26. Your comparison question about Maggette vs Prince is like debating being executed by firing squad or being hung by the neck until you are dead.

So...you'd prefer the one that's over quicker, wouldn't you? By your statement, Prince has more value to the Warriors than Maggette, since he goes against direction for one year instead of 3. (Or, he costs $11.1M to go against your direction rather than $30.8M. Is that what you're saying?)

[azwfan]

As crazy as Rem is, he's actually closer on Maggette then most. I still doubt Maggette is worth his contract, but he not a "terrible" contract, and he does do quite a few things well. I recognize his value around the league is low, so trading him probably is not in the W's best interest.

I'd do something based around Maggette and Wright for Jefferson. Pretty sure Wolves decline. Not sure about adding Randolph not to mention the #5 pick. Depending on who we get at #5, I may even go Jefferson for Maggette + Randolph if i thought Jefferson was a key to getting us to the playoffs. At this point i just don't know. I'd prefer to have a package based around sending the #5 and Wright for Kevin Love.

[Rob Rowell]

There is no way we give Randolph up for Jefferson alone let alone add the 5th. GSW is rebuilding so why the hell would we give up our most promising big and a top 5 pick???

If you think Maggette is overpaid wait until you see what Rudy Gay gets paid this summer.

[don nelson]

I'm coming to the belief that gswhoops is about the only Warriors fan without a drinking problem. The rest seriously have me wondering where their heads are.

I'm curious, though.

How does Tayshaun Prince's value compare to Corey Maggette? I would think Prince would have more value because of his expiring contract, defense, and not being a blackhole.

And if Jefferson for Prince/#7 is fair value, wouldn't Jefferson have more value than Maggette/#5?

So then it becomes Gomes/#16/That extra Jeff value for Randolph/Wright?

Doesn't seem terribly off to me. Take out Wright and Gomes, add in Utah's pick?

Jefferson/#16/#23 for Randolph/Maggette/#5

Neither player fits the direction Golden State is heading which is to rebuild around their young core of players who are 20-26. Your comparison question about Maggette vs Prince is like debating being executed by firing squad or being hung by the neck until you are dead.

Try to read the whole thing. It has nothing to do with the Warriors and which they'd prefer. I'm talking Prince's league value vs Maggette's league value.

Why should we waste any time talking about Prince's trade value when the Warriors could care less whether he lived or died. Prince's trade value to GSW = 000.000

[turk3d]

I'd be much more willing to give up Wright than I would Randolph. Randolph's a keeper as far as I'm concerned. We have a lot of talent on this team. Out of the 15 or so players (a few of them are D-League extras due to our injuries) the following I won't say are untouchable but in order to consider letting go you'll have to knock our socks off (which none of you are doing).

Near untouchable:
Curry
Randolph
Biedrins
Ellis
Morrow

Maybe available for the right deal but not giving away
Wright
Turiaf
Maggette
CJ Watson
Azubuike
Williams

Readily available
Tolliver
Hunter
Radmanovic
George

[loserX]

Try to read the whole thing. It has nothing to do with the Warriors and which they'd prefer. I'm talking Prince's league value vs Maggette's league value.

Why should we waste any time talking about Prince's trade value when the Warriors could care less whether he lived or died. Prince's trade value to GSW = 000.000

Did you read the bolded section?

john2jer posed a legitimate question, comparing possible packages' relative value as to how they match up as offers for Al Jefferson. If you think it's a waste of time to discuss, then
1) make sure you read what it's actually asking, which you don't seem to be doing, and
2) don't respond, which you do seem to be doing.

[azwfan]

I'd be much more willing to give up Wright than I would Randolph. Randolph's a keeper as far as I'm concerned. We have a lot of talent on this team. Out of the 15 or so players (a few of them are D-League extras due to our injuries) the following I won't say are untouchable but in order to consider letting go you'll have to knock our socks off (which none of you are doing).

Near untouchable:
Curry
Randolph
Biedrins
Ellis
Morrow

Maybe available for the right deal but not giving away
Wright
Turiaf
Maggette
CJ Watson
Azubuike
Williams

Readily available
Tolliver
Hunter
Radmanovic
George

I agree in general, but for me, i do not have Biedrins and Morrow in the same area as Curry, Ellis, or Randolph. I'd say they are somewhere inbetween the 1st and 2nd groups you have listed. Also i'd probably push CJ Watson down into readily available.

[don nelson]

I guess I didnt think GS really considered wright a rotation player. I assumed they looked at him how the rest of the league did, a bust athlete, broke mans ty thomas. But by dropping Gomes and wright, it becomes Jefferson + 16 for Randolph, maggette and #5.

I understand what some GSW fans are saying in terms of value. But thats why I phrased it under the assumption GSW had pick 5 (or 6 even). Cousins and Favors, the top two big men prospects WILL be off the board by then. The rest (aldrich, whiteside, monroe, udoh, davis etc) can largely be lumped into the same tier. Theres going to be solid bigs available at 16, so I just didnt see much value difference between 5 and 16 in this years draft as its maybe a 1 tier difference.

Most teams want to combine lesser assets (randolph/maggette) to get the bigger assets (Jefferson). If you guys are so enamoured with Randolph, then theres nothing that really needs to be discussed here. My desire for randolph would be as a bench player for a 3 man big rotation of Love/Darko/Randolph. Not because I think hes going to be a star (I dont), but because the things he brings to the table are our weaknesses, and his weaknesses are Loves strengths.

Good luck.

After Anthony Randolph dominated the summer league last year, Brandan Wright was clearly outplaying him in training camp last year and was well on his way to winning the Warriors starting power forward position before his shoulder dislocation cost Wright the entire season. The price tag for allowing both Randolph and Wright to show whether either player can be a long term solution at power forward for Golden State this upcoming season is dramatically less expensive compared to what Al Jefferson will cost the Warriors based on your proposed trade.

[azwfan]

I'd rather have Corey Maggette then Prince. But i'm a Warriors fan. I'm sure playoff teams or near playoff teams would prefer Prince much more. There's more teams in and close to the playoffs then not. So Prince should have better value league wide.

[poopdamoop]

I'd rather have Corey Maggette then Prince. But i'm a Warriors fan. I'm sure playoff teams or near playoff teams would prefer Prince much more. There's more teams in and close to the playoffs then not. So Prince should have better value league wide.

Well even rebuilding teams would rather have Prince's expiring.

[DLeagueAllStars]

This is simple and not sure why not ONE of you has even considered it

Does Prince have more value than Maggs around the league, yes because he is an EC...

Now the reason why DET is so willing to give up their lotto pick and Prince for Jefferson is cuz they have nothing down low at all.. THey arent happy with the C postion or even that happy with what Charlie V gave them.. They even know that at number 7, Cousins, Favors and Monroe wiil all be off the board

So maybe in a vaccum one could argue that yes the 7 and prince is equal to Maggs longer contract and obtaining a higher pick, but only a team with no front court depth would want to give that up for Jefferson.

One has to remember that GS is still very high on Randolph and Wright and see their values as still lottery picks or that of a lottery pick, so adding them to the deal would be overkill in their eyes.

That is why you cant compare what DET fans would offer over what you would want from Warrior fans. THey would rather keep their 5 pick and take Monroe than give up Monroe and Randolph for Jefferson

I hope this clears things up a bit.. its the larger picture of what the teams still have that makes this deal one that Warriors dont consider

[FNQ]

I'm coming to the belief that gswhoops is about the only Warriors fan without a drinking problem. The rest seriously have me wondering where their heads are.

Jefferson/#16/#23 for Randolph/Maggette/#5

id rather read a homer take by an individual rather than an ignorant generalization of a fan base. Posters like you make this board intolerable...

W's pass in nearly all Jefferson deals... We need a real c and he's not that. Even though the value fits, the needs dont, for either side IMO

[azwfan]

I'd rather have Corey Maggette then Prince. But i'm a Warriors fan. I'm sure playoff teams or near playoff teams would prefer Prince much more. There's more teams in and close to the playoffs then not. So Prince should have better value league wide.

Well even rebuilding teams would rather have Prince's expiring.

Actually your right. After further reflection, i would prefer Prince as well. Just the fact that even if he sucks, he'll only be around for 1 year is a big benefit i did not consider earlier.

[Krapinsky]

How about this dillyeo?

How far away is Monta + Randolph + Vlad Rad (~ 20M) for Jefferson + Gomes + Hollins (~ 15M w/o Gomes, 19M w/) ?

EDIT: or take out Vladrad, Gomes and Hollins, but Wolves add #16?

[lakerhater]

I guess I didnt think GS really considered wright a rotation player. I assumed they looked at him how the rest of the league did, a bust athlete, broke mans ty thomas.

Lot's of posters have this idea as well. My argument to the contrary is that GSW wouldn't have exercised the 4th year option of his contract if they didn't have him in their future plans. They'd have refused the option and parted ways with him if they didn't have the confidence he will regain his health.

Your undervaluing Wright is one reason GSW says no to this. The other reason is that Jefferson isn't a Nellie PF and since Nellie is coach I'd prefer to see GSW trade for players that fit his system. In the future when he's no longer coach and I can see the new coach's system trading for a Jefferson type player might be in the cards. As of this moment in time GSW doesn't want Al Jefferson at PF and I don't think Al Jefferson wants to play center for Nellie. It's a bad match of player talent and coaching system.