Realgm's 2010-11 Top 25 most valuable players

[dockingsched]

So Dash, are you ever going to do a worst contract poll? Limit it to top 15, that would be interesting.

we did one once, i think we just did top 10. i'll look for it, gimme a few minutes...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=947905

we'll do one in a few days.

[Cammo101]

No question. If there was one guy i'll rather have in the entire NBA to build a franchise with. Its Durant.

I love Durant, but I completely disagree. Howard, LeBron, and Rose are all guys I would build around over Durant. They are all better defenders and all around players who are only slight scoring dopoffs from Durant.

The little scoring you lose from Durant to Howard is more than made up for in defense, shot blocking, and rebounding. I'd say the top 5 guys to start a franchise around right now would be...

1. Dwight
2. LeBron
3. Rose
4. Durant
5. Paul

[dockingsched]

No question. If there was one guy i'll rather have in the entire NBA to build a franchise with. Its Durant.

I love Durant, but I completely disagree. Howard, LeBron, and Rose are all guys I would build around over Durant. They are all better defenders and all around players who are only slight scoring dopoffs from Durant.

The little scoring you lose from Durant to Howard is more than made up for in defense, shot blocking, and rebounding. I'd say the top 5 guys to start a franchise around right now would be...

1. Dwight
2. LeBron
3. Rose
4. Durant
5. Paul

i know you guys are just talking about that nba.com article posted about who you'd rather start a franchise with, but just remember this vote wasn't about that.

[loserX]

I still think Durant ahead of Dwight is very iffy. Also, I think both Wade and Kobe are too close to the top. At their age, how can you put either (especially Kobe) ahead of guys like John Wall or Russell Westbrook?

I don't think John Wall's value is higher than Dwyane Wade's at all. I think if you asked the other 28 GMs around the league which player they would expect to pay more for in trade, it would be Wade the elite player.

For the same general reason, as much as we all love watching Blake Griffin play, I personally think he is way too high on this list.

[JustCame]

Veterans are incredibly undervalued in this poll. Seems like people think if you're older than 27-28 that you become worthless and that immature punks who are currently not helping a team win are much more valuable.

Travesty that Pierce isn't in the top-25. Travesty that Griffin is #5.

Please..I wouldn't want a 33 year-old Pierce on my team over any of these guys. If you were to start a franchise, who would you rather have Cousins (#25) or Pierce? The answer is obvious.

[dockingsched]

when teams trade its not always to start a franchise. celtics wouldn't do that trade i would think.

[Dr Positivity]

I feel like if we did the top 5 again Rose would already jump to 2nd. And at least ahead of Dwight and his contract situation.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Wow Cousins gets the vote over guys like Rudy Gay, Josh Smith, Jokiem Noah, Monta Ellis, Tyreke Evans, Iggy or even Greg Monroe. That is seriously bad, I mean people are intitled to their opinions and vote but seriously that is bad. To say Cousins is the 25th best player in the league in terms of value is a joke.

Wings like Rudy Gay, Josh Smith, Iggy and even Granger are really good 2 way players your talking about a lot of 1st and 2nd team all defensive teamers there. Plus each has either been a 15-20 ppg player. Evans has shown he can be one of the games best all around players playing both ends and being a solid teamate with his assist numbers and is a really good scorer.

Bigs like Noah don't grow on tree's. Look at his importance when he's playing vs when he's not. The Bulls are a elite team with him and a upper tier team minus him take Noah off the Bulls and they are good but they are not Championship good. I feel like Noah is the 2nd best C only behind Dwight Howard.

I agree with most of the list so far I mean no love for Duncan c'mon the guy is still a elite player and easily the best PF of the last 15-20 years if not ever. Some of the vets are getting really underatted here and some rookies are overeatted because of their cap situations or homerism.

Just my 2 cents just thought I would rant a bit

[dockingsched]

which reminds me, bac2basics owes me an apology for giving me repeated grief for taking out evans back at #5!

[Dr Positivity]

I'm really shocked Noah didn't make it over Lopez and Cousins. Noah is a seriously valuable player and is still 25/in his 4th season. Meanwhile Lopez was the best guy on a 12 W team last year and Cousins is Cousins. Serious misfire in the last two votes.

[Casperkid23]

Veterans are incredibly undervalued in this poll. Seems like people think if you're older than 27-28 that you become worthless and that immature punks who are currently not helping a team win are much more valuable.

Travesty that Pierce isn't in the top-25. Travesty that Griffin is #5.

Please..I wouldn't want a 33 year-old Pierce on my team over any of these guys. If you were to start a franchise, who would you rather have Cousins (#25) or Pierce? The answer is obvious.

If I had to build a team to win in the next 3-4 years (the timeframe most GMs are given), I would much rather have Pierce than Cousins. Pierce does far more for my team this year, far more next year, and then in year 3 maybe if Cousins improves his game as most of his fans would hope there'd be an argument. Yes, I'd be giving up 11mil in space, but I'd rather have a #1 on my team than a young player with potential who currently is doing more harm than good for his current club.

If your team is in the playoffs, you want Pierce without a doubt. If your team is not in the playoffs, but on the fringe of making the playoffs, you want Pierce. If your team is rebuilding, then you want Cousins over Pierce - but then again, you probably want some of the guys not voted into the top-25 over Cousins.

[bbms]

No question. If there was one guy i'll rather have in the entire NBA to build a franchise with. Its Durant.

I love Durant, but I completely disagree. Howard, LeBron, and Rose are all guys I would build around over Durant. They are all better defenders and all around players who are only slight scoring dopoffs from Durant.

The little scoring you lose from Durant to Howard is more than made up for in defense, shot blocking, and rebounding. I'd say the top 5 guys to start a franchise around right now would be...

1. Dwight
2. LeBron
3. Rose
4. Durant
5. Paul

Dwight and LeBron ok. Rose not.

[SamBone]

i think alot of people still did not understand that this was based on "trade value" not the actual player. That is why some great stud vet players dropped down the list. Most teams and GM's would rather trade for guys like KD or Blake then Dirk, Pau, or Pierce simply because of age and contract

I agree that Blake is not a top 5 player in the league, but I doubt LA wpould trade him for anyone listed below him in the rankings. That was the point of this list

[shrink]

If I had to build a team to win in the next 3-4 years (the timeframe most GMs are given) ....

This bit about time frame is a really good point.

Too often I hear a line like, "If we trade for him, we have our SG for the next ten years!" That's completely unrealistic, and I think there are only two players in the NBA who have been on their team for ten years.

Contractually, for young players, the absolute most you can hope for would be seven (an entire rookie contract and first extension), and that number may be shrinking because of the examples set by Melo and other superstars that would be on this list. And keep in mind, a promising young player on rookie scale is a much different fit than the much more expensive guy on his first max deal.

But that number is even short for other factors. As a young player develops, his game changes. His value to a team changes as well. OJ Mayo may have looked like a guy that MEM would keep for a number of years, and even build their team around, and he is offered up in trade for almost nothing. Injuries also play a huge role, and are likely to happen if we look at a ten year time-span.

And on top of that, team needs change over ten years. The NBA is cyclical, and very few teams can stay on top for long periods of time, since the draft infuses the league with young superstar talent on the cheap. Iguodala was mentioned in trades all the time two months ago, but after a little success, the Sixers now says they'll keep him. The idea that a player would be something a team needs for ten full years (and needs more than any other team that would trade them more) is hard to believe.

I definitely agree with CasperKid here, that a team .. and a GM .. has a time frame of 3-4 years, and that there are enough teams who dream of rings in that time-frame that a near superstar like Pierce, a guy that has already shown he can lead a team to rings, should have made the Top 25.

[shrink]

I also wanted to talk about something completely different - DeMarcus Cousins.

Now let me say up front that I am not a huge fan of DeMarcus Cousins, and I will be surprised if he becomes a superstar. That doesn't mean I wasn't frustrated when David Kahn chose Wes Johnson over him - even though I think Wes is likely to have the better career. Cousins certainly has bust-potential written all over him.

That said, I voted for him in the Top 25.

I feel that the NBA is a superstar league. If the goal of a team is to win championships, nearly all of them have been won by teams with a true superstar on them. Superstars are rare, and by my definition of the elusive term, there are only perhaps 6-8 in the NBA at any given time

What are not rare in the NBA are good players. Corey Maggette, Ben Gordon, Rashard Lewis .. all very good basketball players. However, they are all very replaceable players too, where a new "good" player could be brought in to fill their role. And in any market, replaceability lowers value.

DeMarcus Cousins has a chance at being a true superstar. I think its a low chance, but he could become the player that isn't replaceable, and he has the chance to give a team the component they may need to win a championship some day. Add in his position specificity, and I think he deserves to be in the Top 25.

[BringBackKorver]

I personally don't get how Deron without an extension can be worth more than an extended Melo. I mean, just look at the offer the Nets made for extended Melo vs the deal they made for unextended Deron...

With an extension, yes Deron should be ahead. But there's no way he can have more value with his contract situation up in the air.

[JoseRizal]

I personally don't get how Deron without an extension can be worth more than an extended Melo. I mean, just look at the offer the Nets made for extended Melo vs the deal they made for unextended Deron...

With an extension, yes Deron should be ahead. But there's no way he can have more value with his contract situation up in the air.

First, Deron is a top 10 player while Melo isn't. Knicks weren't any better with him at the helm...

And second, Melo signed a max contract with New York. With the new CBA, I doubt if Deron will make that much...

[Trader_Joe]

I personally don't get how Deron without an extension can be worth more than an extended Melo. I mean, just look at the offer the Nets made for extended Melo vs the deal they made for unextended Deron...

With an extension, yes Deron should be ahead. But there's no way he can have more value with his contract situation up in the air.

Which is a big reason why I don't get why Paul is so high considering he is in the same boat contractually and has had serious knee injuries. Not to say Deron's wrist isn't a concern, but it wasn't even really a concern or discussed when he was voted on in this poll.

My main issue in the poll was Dirk especially relative to Amare:

Dirk
-is averaging 6.9 rebounds this season (1.4 less than Amare). His lowest in 11 seasons
-is averaging a mediocre 23.3 ppg (2.8 less than Amare). His lowest in 8 seasons.
-is a worse defender than Amare has been this season
-plays on an absolutely stacked team that is playing at it's expected level
-has physically slowed at 32 years old and was never athletic/quick to begin with
-$20m per for 4 years

Amare:
-is out-scoring/rebounding/assisting/blocking Dirk, the first three by significant margins (26.1/8.3/2.7/2) vs. 23.3/6.9/2.5/0.7) more steals too
-Has transformed a perennial loser and has them at the 6th seed (being much higher over .500 before the Melo drama)
-Has instilled instant leadership, identity and respectability.
-Shooting 51% from the field, 79% from the line, 47% from 3 w/o Nash (or Kidd) close to player A (53/88/42)
-Gets to the line 2 more times per games (8 vs 6 .. significant difference)
-is in his absolute prime at age 28
-$20m per for 5 years

[Guy986]

Best player on a .500 team vs the best player on a .700 team.

[Casperkid23]

I personally don't get how Deron without an extension can be worth more than an extended Melo. I mean, just look at the offer the Nets made for extended Melo vs the deal they made for unextended Deron...

With an extension, yes Deron should be ahead. But there's no way he can have more value with his contract situation up in the air.

Which is a big reason why I don't get why Paul is so high considering he is in the same boat contractually and has had serious knee injuries. Not to say Deron's wrist isn't a concern, but it wasn't even really a concern or discussed when he was voted on in this poll.

My main issue in the poll was Dirk especially relative to Amare:

Dirk
-is averaging 6.9 rebounds this season (1.4 less than Amare). His lowest in 11 seasons
-is averaging a mediocre 23.3 ppg (2.8 less than Amare). His lowest in 8 seasons.
-is a worse defender than Amare has been this season
-plays on an absolutely stacked team that is playing at it's expected level
-has physically slowed at 32 years old and was never athletic/quick to begin with
-$20m per for 4 years

Amare:
-is out-scoring/rebounding/assisting/blocking Dirk, the first three by significant margins (26.1/8.3/2.7/2) vs. 23.3/6.9/2.5/0.7) more steals too
-Has transformed a perennial loser and has them at the 6th seed (being much higher over .500 before the Melo drama)
-Has instilled instant leadership, identity and respectability.
-Shooting 51% from the field, 79% from the line, 47% from 3 w/o Nash (or Kidd) close to player A (53/88/42)
-Gets to the line 2 more times per games (8 vs 6 .. significant difference)
-is in his absolute prime at age 28
-$20m per for 5 years

Dirk is the main reason Dallas is winning, but apparently you haven't seen them play without him. He's also far more efficient offensively and also better defensively - maybe you judge offense by ppg and defense by blocks... but yeah, that's not how I do it.

Only advantage Stouedmire has is the age disparity, but as I said earlier, it seems people in this thread like to harp on veterans who are still capable of winning and you're proving that statement correct.