Andrea Bargnani

[Ruzious]

Well, I haven't seen him more than probably 5 games, but my impression is that he's a really awful defender. But maybe I've seen him on off days. It's hard to hide a big who's 1 dimentional.

[Who34]

here is a list of starting PFs that i would not trade bargs for straight up

ryan andersson
david west
carlos boozer
whoever is starting on the cavs and the cats
brandon bass
elton brand
amare
who is starting for detroit?
who is starting for was?
humphries

is blair starting on the spurs?
pau gasol
scola
zbo
griffin
dunno who is starting for the nuggs
is frye starting at pf?
david lee
the guy starting for sac and nola

did this of the top of my head so it might not be 100% accurate but this is how i value bargs. he is still young 25 or 26 years. signed to a reasonable deal. i'm not saying that he is better than each guy on the list but if i'm the raps i would not trade him for any of theese guys straight up. i'm not a raps fan and i'm not a bargs fan boy either but he gets to much hate

[Relentless88]

^You wouldn't trade him for Griffin? You're crazy! Otherwise, a reasonable list.

[Doormatt]

bargnani kind of sucks, i wouldnt give anything for him. Anderson is clearly better because he actually hits the boards hard, and plays passable team defense. oh and hes on a cheaper contract. really a no brainer ITO value, Anderson >>> Bargs.

So because he's a terrible rebounder, he sucks?

pretty much actually. that and hes not a good defender, more like below average

[Doormatt]

here is a list of starting PFs that i would not trade bargs for straight up

ryan andersson
david west
carlos boozer
whoever is starting on the cavs and the cats
brandon bass
elton brand
amare
who is starting for detroit?
who is starting for was?
humphries

is blair starting on the spurs?
pau gasol
scola
zbo
griffin
dunno who is starting for the nuggs
is frye starting at pf?
david lee
the guy starting for sac and nola

did this of the top of my head so it might not be 100% accurate but this is how i value bargs. he is still young 25 or 26 years. signed to a reasonable deal. i'm not saying that he is better than each guy on the list but if i'm the raps i would not trade him for any of theese guys straight up. i'm not a raps fan and i'm not a bargs fan boy either but he gets to much hate

horrific list. apart from Lee, Amare and probably Humphries id trade him for every one of those players in a heart beat.

[Relentless88]

bargnani kind of sucks, i wouldnt give anything for him. Anderson is clearly better because he actually hits the boards hard, and plays passable team defense. oh and hes on a cheaper contract. really a no brainer ITO value, Anderson >>> Bargs.

So because he's a terrible rebounder, he sucks?

pretty much actually. that and hes not a good defender, more like below average

Then you're really not worth arguing with.

Rebounding should be looked at as a team stat. The Raptors are in the middle of the pack (exactly 16th) in rebounding differential. They are one of 17 teams with a positive rebound differential. It's not great, but it's also not that bad (better than Dallas, Portland, Philly, Atlanta, and Boston among others). Bargnani doesn't get rebounds, but if he boxes out and his teammates are getting them, then it's not that large a problem.

The team should imrpve when Valanciunas comes over. Like I mentioned, he had one of the highest rebounding rates in euro league history. He also shot free throws at an 88% clip. If Jonas makes just a +1 rebound differential difference next season, the Raptors would be a top 10 rebounding team.

[Who34]

/quote]
horrific list. apart from Lee, Amare and probably Humphries id trade him for every one of those players in a heart beat.[/quote]

you are trolling me right? i dont like griffin cuz but yea he is the only one who shouldnt be on that list

[don nelson]

here is a list of starting PFs that i would not trade bargs for straight up

ryan andersson
david west
carlos boozer
whoever is starting on the cavs and the cats
brandon bass
elton brand
amare
who is starting for detroit?
who is starting for was?
humphries

is blair starting on the spurs?
pau gasol
scola
zbo
griffin
dunno who is starting for the nuggs
is frye starting at pf?
david lee
the guy starting for sac and nola

did this of the top of my head so it might not be 100% accurate but this is how i value bargs. he is still young 25 or 26 years. signed to a reasonable deal. i'm not saying that he is better than each guy on the list but if i'm the raps i would not trade him for any of theese guys straight up. i'm not a raps fan and i'm not a bargs fan boy either but he gets to much hate

horrific list. apart from Lee, Amare and probably Humphries id trade him for every one of those players in a heart beat.

The Warriors would prefer Lee over Bargnani because he actually averages 9.6 rebounds a game.

[Who34]

i went with bargs because of the contract and age but thats just my opinion. i think they have similar games good offence average defence. too much focus on the rebounding imo. as someone else stated its a team effort. i dont care if my PF averages 1 rebound a game aslong as my team grabs o good % of the defensive boards.

[don nelson]

i went with bargs because of the contract and age but thats just my opinion. i think they have similar games good offence average defence. too much focus on the rebounding imo. as someone else stated its a team effort. i dont care if my PF averages 1 rebound a game aslong as my team grabs o good % of the defensive boards.

David Lee is paid about $2 million per year more than Bargnani and the stats below show why:

2011-2012 Statistical Comparison Andrea Bargnani vs David Lee

Bargnani 19.4 pts 43% FGM, 5.5 rebs, 2.0 assts, 0.5 blks, PER 17.01 2011-12 salary $9,250,000
Lee 19.7 pts 51% FGM, 9.6 rebs, 2.7 assts, 0.4 blocks, PER 19.93 2011-12 salary $11,610,000

[jowglenn]

Pacers give hibbert for bargnani and raps 1st

[Rapsfan07]

Pacers give hibbert for bargnani and raps 1st

Sure!.... If the pick is lottery protected. You couldn't possibly mean our 2012 pick unprotected right?

[don nelson]

Pacers give hibbert for bargnani and raps 1st

Sure!.... If the pick is lottery protected. You couldn't possibly mean our 2012 pick unprotected right?

If Toronto's only willing to give up a protected 2012-1st then Raps need to include Val + the pick because young all star centers simply do not grow on trees.

[Rapsfan07]

Pacers give hibbert for bargnani and raps 1st

Sure!.... If the pick is lottery protected. You couldn't possibly mean our 2012 pick unprotected right?

If Toronto's only willing to give up a protected 2012-1st then Raps need to include Val + the pick.

For Roy Hibbert?

Please tell me you're joking. Val isn't going anywhere and neither is the pick...especially not for Hibbert.

[don nelson]

A protected 2012 pick which might become deferred into the future has significantly less value to the Pacers than an unprotected lottery pick in 2012. Val may be a promising center prospect but that hardly guarantees Jonas will become an all star center which Roy Hibbert already has.

[Rapsfan07]

Well keeping the high probability chance that Jonas is going to be a good center + a Top 5 pick is better than Hibbert to the Raptors. It doesn't make sense from our perspective.

[swirsk]

Rebounding should be looked at as a team stat. The Raptors are in the middle of the pack (exactly 16th) in rebounding differential. They are one of 17 teams with a positive rebound differential. It's not great, but it's also not that bad (better than Dallas, Portland, Philly, Atlanta, and Boston among others). Bargnani doesn't get rebounds, but if he boxes out and his teammates are getting them, then it's not that large a problem.

You might as well say "scoring should be looked at as a team stat, so Joel Anthony's offense is fine"! "Defense is a team effort, so forget that Boozer doesn't put any effort in"!

No. You can't do that. You're selectively talking away a huge player flaw. Andrea Bargnani is a horrible, historically bad rebounder. By putting him on the floor against other bigs you're immediately at a disadvantage because he's so awful on the glass. Yes, you might make up for it by surrounding him with rebounders, but no, that doesn't make it a non-issue.

Why? Because by putting even an average rebounder in his place, you become a much better rebounding team. Your average rebounding differential becomes a strong one. It has a big effect on team success.

Oh, and the whole "he boxes out, but lets others grab the board!" is such a ridiculous argument. If you box out your man for 36 minutes you'll have more boards than Bargnani gets in a game falling right into your hands.

[don nelson]

Well keeping the high probability chance that Jonas is going to be a good center + a Top 5 pick is better than Hibbert to the Raptors. It doesn't make sense from our perspective.

I have no problem with Toronto keeping Jonas. But the reality is especially given the feedback from fans of other teams in this thread, Bargnani isn't enough to get Hibbert to Toronto unless the Raptors are adding some major league sweeteners such as Toronto's 2012 first unprotected.

[don nelson]

Rebounding should be looked at as a team stat. The Raptors are in the middle of the pack (exactly 16th) in rebounding differential. They are one of 17 teams with a positive rebound differential. It's not great, but it's also not that bad (better than Dallas, Portland, Philly, Atlanta, and Boston among others). Bargnani doesn't get rebounds, but if he boxes out and his teammates are getting them, then it's not that large a problem.

You might as well say "scoring should be looked at as a team stat, so Joel Anthony's offense is fine"! "Defense is a team effort, so forget that Boozer doesn't put any effort in"!

No. You can't do that. You're selectively talking away a huge player flaw. Andrea Bargnani is a horrible, historically bad rebounder. By putting him on the floor against other bigs you're immediately at a disadvantage because he's so awful on the glass. Yes, you might make up for it by surrounding him with rebounders, but no, that doesn't make it a non-issue.

Why? Because by putting even an average rebounder in his place, you become a much better rebounding team. Your average rebounding differential becomes a strong one. It has a big effect on team success.

Oh, and the whole "he boxes out, but lets others grab the board!" is such a ridiculous argument. If you box out your man for 36 minutes you'll have more boards than Bargnani gets in a game falling right into your hands.

Your post is so spot on.

[Doormatt]

Rebounding should be looked at as a team stat.

the raptors TRB% with Bargs on the court is -2.6% (from 47.4% to 50% off).

try again.