WojOfficial: Adrien Payne to Minnesota for a 2017 1st

[jbk1234]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

almost like that guy in Cleveland, huh?

Essentially this deal is simply moving the asset forward. Payne is probably a similar level prospect to whomever they would get with that pick except they don't have to wait 3 years to benefit. 1st round picks get so overrated both here and by actual GM's.

Except Cleveland wasn't throwing them around during the rebuild, they were accumulating them. The difference between contenders trading late first round picks and rebuilding teams trading 1st round picks is substantial. Now we haven't seen the protections, so that can make a difference. But, if the Cavs hadn't stock piled those picks, they couldn't have cleared $10 million in cap space over the course of two days and they couldn't have traded for Mozgov when they were ready to make a run.

[HornetJail]

I don't get the deal for Minnesota, unless the pick basically becomes 2nd rounders after a year or two. ATL has a lot of future picks to work with too. If I was a team that had an unhappy star and I was looking for a nice rebuild package, ATL has just that, between the Brooklyn pick, the Minnesota pick, all of their own picks, and some decent young talent. They could put quite the package together.

[Texas Chuck]

Dallas traded a first for Steve Nash when they were essentially the current Wolves. Think that worked out okay.
Clippers traded a high pick for Elton Brand when they were essentially the current Wolves. That worked out well too.
Wizards traded a high first for Jamison when they were terrible and it propelled them back to the playoffs etc..

So many of you being too restrictive in your thinking. A re-build doesn't always have to be dump every veteran for picks. Sometimes the right move is to trade those picks for players. Im not saying this move is all the great. It may not work out. But get out of this box.

[WhatsaTDot]

None of Nash Brand or Jamison were very average in the DLeague before being traded though. Odd comparison.

[jayjaysee]

I agree with Chuck, per usual.. And agree Thad should definitely be traded this week.. Lose a small step this season, play Bennett/Payne.. And get some sort of asset for Thad.. He should never really have been on the team in most people's opinions though..

Minnesota has Dieng, Wiggins, Shabazz, Rubio... Four quality pieces at positions.. then they have Bennett..eh... It makes sense to trade a pick that far forward for a guy that could fit with the other pieces.

Also about the age - Dieng is 25, Rubio is 24.. Assuming those two are part of the core as well (safe) - Being 24 isn't a big deal. I don't see why the Wolves aren't competing for a playoff spot in three years though.

Just stop winning games this season.

--

For Atlanta it is strange unless they are trying to trade for a wing player.. I guess Payne isn't playing anyways but Millsap could leave this offseason... I guess Wilson Chandler should look good in a Hawk uniform next week?

[Takingbaconback]

None of Nash Brand or Jamison were very average in the DLeague before being traded though. Odd comparison.

Not a perfect comparison but Payne hasn't gone through half a season of NBA yet. I don't like the deal as a wolves fan but I don't hate it either. It's much better trade than that stupid Thad Young for Miami 1st. That was an obvious error from the get go.

[winter_mute_13]

In principle I have nothing against trading a future pick for a prospect, but this particular deal looks odd for Minny.

Payne doesn't seem like a high level prospect to me, more like a low ceiling rotation kind of guy. Sure those guys have value too, but is that what Minny needs now? Then there's the whole basically plays the same position/role as Bennett thing. Are they just going to cut bait on Bennett? Seems wasteful.

[HartfordWhalers]

Also there should be a poll, preferably with a lot of "Payne" puns.

I need coffee, and you nailed the last poll. Edit the poll for me, and feel free to switch as many as needed to get the puns in.

[Texas Chuck]

None of Nash Brand or Jamison were very average in the DLeague before being traded though. Odd comparison.

Nash was 3rd string in Phoenix. He fits like a glove. He had shown more than Payne, but no one thought of him as a future MVP or even an all-star. Heck outside of Donnie Nelson hardly anyone saw him as a starter. I included the other 2 specifically because they were both top 5 picks something this forum acts like can never be traded under any circumstances.

[RSCD3_]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

Not to mention

If they let Thad walk they basically gave a mid round pick by Miami away for nothing

[Texas Chuck]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

Not to mention

If they let Thad walk they basically gave a mid round pick by Miami away for nothing

But you can't look at the deal now and call it a failure like that. They weren't expecting Rubio and Martin to miss so many games. Probably not Pek either tho they should have by now. They clearly were trying to remain semi-competitive while bringing their many youngsters along without having to force anyone not ready into the lineup potentially hurting their confidence or the team developing bad habits.

Just because everything went wrong doesn't mean the decision was that bad. They already had plenty of talented young players/picks. Using one for a solid citizen and player like Thad Young might not have been what you would have done, but it was a reasonable decision. You can't just have a team of all kids and expect to ever break the cycle of losing. and the Wolves definitely need to break that cycle.


I really want to get a Trade Board poker game going because so many guys are so results-oriented. Sometimes a move can be the correct move and just not work out. Life has variance.

[winter_mute_13]

Good job on the poll options LOL

[HartfordWhalers]

Okay so interesting side note to this one also. Side question?

The pick is technically 2017 1st, lotto protected 2017-2020 then a 2nd if I am getting this right.

However, with the pick already owed to Boston, it should get bumped to a 2018 start date after this season, as Minnesota will technically have the possibility of a 2016 pick going out. Then I'm *pretty sure* that it cannot go back to a 2017 start date even if the 2016 pick is not relayed.

Thats how Philly's 2016 (then 2017) pick was when it was traded as next available, although I'm not sure that there is anything that makes it impossible to not revert back to 2017, as, when the 2016 pick is not traded to Boston, the 2017 should become the next available again.

Anyone with a definitive answer? If Minnesota never gives up the first pick to Boston, can this really stay a 2017 pick?

[HornetJail]

This poll is payneful

[theatlfan]

For those confused by ATL's side, here's what I'm thinking. 1st, we need an open roster spot. With Thabo out for a couple of months, we want to find a cheap stopgap. We apparently want one with playoff experience since we're chasing Ray Allen. 2nd, we cut bait on Payne. I should note that he most definitely fits what we're looking to do. A long (incredibly long), athletic big who can shoot is exactly what we are looking for. The fact is that we either dealt him because a) he was buried behind our depth and needed the roster spot and MIN offering the 1st was the sweetener to convince us to cut bait instead of looking elsewhere for the roster spot (say, cutting John Jenkins) or b) we didn't think he was, or could be, good enough to play in the NBA. I voted the for (a) (a win/win in the poll) but many voted (b) (we clearly won).

I am interested in seeing MIN's next move though. A Dieng / Bennett / Payne big man rotation could be incredible if everything breaks right (I know - HUGE if). Payne has the length / standing reach to dream on as a C, definitely in spot minutes if not more, so the rotation could work in a 32/32/32 arrangement. Do they clear out Young and Pek and develop the young'uns? Do they let Payne and Bennett compete for the scant minutes behind Young, Pek, and Dieng? I will be interested in watching, but I'll guess that whatever they do won't be clear until we get past the moratorium... maybe even much past it.

[Knosh]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

almost like that guy in Cleveland, huh?

Essentially this deal is simply moving the asset forward. Payne is probably a similar level prospect to whomever they would get with that pick except they don't have to wait 3 years to benefit. 1st round picks get so overrated both here and by actual GM's.

There is more to the value of a pick than just the talent level available with it. If your assesment of Payne is right, Minnesota gave up too much.

Dallas traded a first for Steve Nash when they were essentially the current Wolves. Think that worked out okay.
Clippers traded a high pick for Elton Brand when they were essentially the current Wolves. That worked out well too.
Wizards traded a high first for Jamison when they were terrible and it propelled them back to the playoffs etc..

All 10+ years ago. The CBA has changed since then and trades that made sense in the past don't have to make sense now.

[Takingbaconback]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

almost like that guy in Cleveland, huh?

Essentially this deal is simply moving the asset forward. Payne is probably a similar level prospect to whomever they would get with that pick except they don't have to wait 3 years to benefit. 1st round picks get so overrated both here and by actual GM's.

There is more to the value of a pick than just the talent level available with it. If your assesment of Payne is right, Minnesota gave up too much.

Dallas traded a first for Steve Nash when they were essentially the current Wolves. Think that worked out okay.
Clippers traded a high pick for Elton Brand when they were essentially the current Wolves. That worked out well too.
Wizards traded a high first for Jamison when they were terrible and it propelled them back to the playoffs etc..

All 10+ years ago. The CBA has changed since then and trades that made sense in the past don't have to make sense now.

This all just boils down to how good Payne will be in the NBA and what the wolves record will be in 2 years.

[C.lupus]

Depends on the protections, but if they are reasonable for the Wolves I like it for both. Payne doesn't really fit what the Hawks are doing and this gets them an asset down the road. Wolves add a guy who could be useful to them.

Lottery protected through 2020 then becomes a 2nd rounder. Not that high of a price imo.

FWIW, Flip really liked Payne in the draft and was debating between him and LaVine - now he has both. Flip is good friends with Izzo and has watched Payne play a lot. He knows what he is getting. I'm fine with the deal but I liked Payne in the draft, too.

[Knosh]

This all just boils down to how good Payne will be in the NBA and what the wolves record will be in 2 years.

So trading a player for a pick boils down to how good that player will beand the record of the team conveying the pick?! Ok, I guess? Guess there is nothing to discuss right now, let's talk again in two years.

[Ruzious]

Atlanta is winning now, so they didn't have time for the Payne.

<Apologies to Carly Simon>