Trade Value of the Suns' point guards?

[Patsfan1081]

The only one I would really want is Bledsoe. I'd take IT, but the price has to be really cheap. I'm a Celtics fan, so I don't know if we could really put together a package, but I'll try.

( in the offseason )

Bledsoe for Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, the higher of our 2015 firsts, and the cavs 2016 first.

I know it ain't much, but Bradley is one tenacious defender, and has always reminded me of Rajah Bell, which is why I always considered him a good candidate for phoenix. Especially if the suns keep dragic, who's been guarding 2 guards in the dual PG lineup. Bradley and him can switch between PG and SG, depending on who you want Bradley to cover and still always have Dragic bring up the ball. He's so smart and quick, that very few people get a step on him, and he gets his hands in the way a lot (not really steals, but definitely disruptions. He's also become a reliable with catch and shoot 3's, and even better with a fake and stepping into a jumpshot. He's the one who booted Ray Allen from our championship starting lineup as a 20 year old...a team can definitely still compete with him on the roster. Olynyk is a shooting big, former lottery pick in his second year who'd be better coming off a bench for a good team than starting on a bad team. The pick this year can be anywhere from 7 to 15, depending on how the rest of the season shakes out, and next years is a later one, since we gave you our earlier one this draft.

I'm almost certain though that you'll say that the picks aren't good enough, and think this is more of a package for Isaiah Thomas (which is way too much for that skill level at this point for the Celtics)

terrible offer

Terrible offer?I think Bradley, Olynk(a lottery pick), Celtics pick(most likely 8th), and another late first is a overpay for a injury prone pointgaurd that can play good D, but isn't really a good outside shooter. Point guard is the easiest position to fill, you wouldn't have to give anything to sign Jackson in the offseason.Why would the Celtics want Bledsoe anyway? Smart is a defensive minded pg on a rookie deal, you couldn't play both of them anyways.

[Orens]

It's a terrible offer because it doesn't make any sense for the Suns. It won't make them better short-term and most likely not long-term.
If you don't like Bledsoe, don't bother trading for him. He's a keeper.

[12buckets]

It's a terrible offer because it doesn't make any sense for the Suns. It won't make them better short-term and most likely not long-term.
If you don't like Bledsoe, don't bother trading for him. He's a keeper.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... avy-Roster

it looks like one of them is likely going soon. this thread a little foreshadowing?? too much offense from the backcourt, not a well rounded roster? maybe trading one PG for a great backcourt defender and offensive big man isn't so out of line.

[Ruckusmh]

Kanter for any of them? lol

[Orens]

It's a terrible offer because it doesn't make any sense for the Suns. It won't make them better short-term and most likely not long-term.
If you don't like Bledsoe, don't bother trading for him. He's a keeper.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... avy-Roster

it looks like one of them is likely going soon. this thread a little foreshadowing?? too much offense from the backcourt, not a well rounded roster? maybe trading one PG for a great backcourt defender and offensive big man isn't so out of line.

Dragic and Bledsoe proved they can work last year, but Thomas broke that balance and moved Dragic off the ball. Bledsoe can play defense, and Dragic is an underrated defender when he doesn't get outplayed by more physical wings. Bledsoe can cover Dragic's more physical assignments, Thomas most certainly cannot.
When both healthy last year, the Slash Bros killed it. We've seen it this year. That's a winning formula. Thomas is a good player but he doesn't fit with either of them, so he's the odd man out.
Kelly Olynyk won't help either the Suns' rebounding issues or inside defense. Those picks are useless unless we swing another big trade, and the downgrade from Bled to Brad won't make them better.
So that's a no-go.

[BadWolf]

The only one I would really want is Bledsoe. I'd take IT, but the price has to be really cheap. I'm a Celtics fan, so I don't know if we could really put together a package, but I'll try.

( in the offseason )

Bledsoe for Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, the higher of our 2015 firsts, and the cavs 2016 first.

I know it ain't much, but Bradley is one tenacious defender, and has always reminded me of Rajah Bell, which is why I always considered him a good candidate for phoenix. Especially if the suns keep dragic, who's been guarding 2 guards in the dual PG lineup. Bradley and him can switch between PG and SG, depending on who you want Bradley to cover and still always have Dragic bring up the ball. He's so smart and quick, that very few people get a step on him, and he gets his hands in the way a lot (not really steals, but definitely disruptions. He's also become a reliable with catch and shoot 3's, and even better with a fake and stepping into a jumpshot. He's the one who booted Ray Allen from our championship starting lineup as a 20 year old...a team can definitely still compete with him on the roster. Olynyk is a shooting big, former lottery pick in his second year who'd be better coming off a bench for a good team than starting on a bad team. The pick this year can be anywhere from 7 to 15, depending on how the rest of the season shakes out, and next years is a later one, since we gave you our earlier one this draft.

I'm almost certain though that you'll say that the picks aren't good enough, and think this is more of a package for Isaiah Thomas (which is way too much for that skill level at this point for the Celtics)

terrible offer

I told ya.

I'm really interested in what they actually get for Bledsoe or dragic if they make one available, as I'm almost certain that it will be less than you'll think it should be. Value is dictated by market, and if phoenix is looking to move one when only a couple teams need one, you'll be picking from the best offer, not his true value. I learned this earlier this season, so I know it's not easy to accept. The two players in my offer are better than any of the players we got for Rondo, the same late first rounder...PLUS a pick 10-15 spots higher this year. I know Bledsoe is better, but I can only see 5 or 6 other teams that might make an offer, none of whom have very good players to trade.

To be honest, I'd rather have ty lawson than either of them, and would be willing to pay a little more for him. (although I wouldn't be upset with any of the available point guards this deadline/offseason).

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is it really? will bledsoe turn into a 22,23 ppg scorer?
is the difference between the two Olynik (who Celtics fans love, a late lottery and a late pick? )

[Chinook]

OK, I'm pretty sure SAS wouldn't do this for "Basketball Reasons" (read loyalty), but

SAS gives Tony Parker + right to swap first round picks in 2016
for
Goran Dragic + Filler (literally any contract on the Phx roster, down to Archie Goodwin will do. They could even do something like sign Beasely or Tony Mitchell to a partially unguaranteed contract with their bird rights it should still work...)

Why for SAS - They think TP is too expensive for what he giving them and they think TD and Manu are retiring - they need to re-tool and this still keeps them in contention while dumping TP's contract. That gives them a bunch of space this summer; they will have the space to sign a max, or do other stuff..

Why for PHX? - 1) TP hasn't been healthy, but he's generally considered better than Dragic (eg. He's been an MVP candidate) 2) That pick swap in 2016 could be pretty sweet if TD and Manu retire, and 3) Dragic may leave this summer, (or get even more than TP's 12.5 Million; this summer could be pretty crazy for FA's given the new TV contract in the immediate future).

Ew, no. I wouldn't give up extra value in any Parker deal. The only reason to move him is to get an asset or two while money-balling the PG position. Dragic will make at least what Tony is making on the new deal. It makes no sense.

[the_bruce]

Thomas is the odd man out, least trade value, worst fit on most teams, and typically a 6th mam spark plug guy can be had for much cheaper. So the market is probably small.

If phx has option swap him for a pf/sf on a similar contract I think they will, even if they can't get a similarly skilled player back.

[irie]

The only one I would really want is Bledsoe. I'd take IT, but the price has to be really cheap. I'm a Celtics fan, so I don't know if we could really put together a package, but I'll try.

( in the offseason )

Bledsoe for Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, the higher of our 2015 firsts, and the cavs 2016 first.

I know it ain't much, but Bradley is one tenacious defender, and has always reminded me of Rajah Bell, which is why I always considered him a good candidate for phoenix. Especially if the suns keep dragic, who's been guarding 2 guards in the dual PG lineup. Bradley and him can switch between PG and SG, depending on who you want Bradley to cover and still always have Dragic bring up the ball. He's so smart and quick, that very few people get a step on him, and he gets his hands in the way a lot (not really steals, but definitely disruptions. He's also become a reliable with catch and shoot 3's, and even better with a fake and stepping into a jumpshot. He's the one who booted Ray Allen from our championship starting lineup as a 20 year old...a team can definitely still compete with him on the roster. Olynyk is a shooting big, former lottery pick in his second year who'd be better coming off a bench for a good team than starting on a bad team. The pick this year can be anywhere from 7 to 15, depending on how the rest of the season shakes out, and next years is a later one, since we gave you our earlier one this draft.

I'm almost certain though that you'll say that the picks aren't good enough, and think this is more of a package for Isaiah Thomas (which is way too much for that skill level at this point for the Celtics)

terrible offer

Terrible offer?I think Bradley, Olynk(a lottery pick), Celtics pick(most likely 8th), and another late first is a overpay for a injury prone pointgaurd that can play good D, but isn't really a good outside shooter. Point guard is the easiest position to fill, you wouldn't have to give anything to sign Jackson in the offseason.Why would the Celtics want Bledsoe anyway? Smart is a defensive minded pg on a rookie deal, you couldn't play both of them anyways.

The Celtics first is currently sitting at 11th. Bradley is at best of neutral value. Olynyk is a mediocre prospect. Cavs 2016 first will probably be in thee late 20s. That isn't really a very good package, and Bledsoe is an important piece for Phoenix.

If the Celtics were to go for anyone, it probably would be Thomas as the Cs need scoring and he's assuredly the least expensive to acquire.

[LightTheBeam]

The only one I would really want is Bledsoe. I'd take IT, but the price has to be really cheap. I'm a Celtics fan, so I don't know if we could really put together a package, but I'll try.

( in the offseason )

Bledsoe for Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, the higher of our 2015 firsts, and the cavs 2016 first.

I know it ain't much, but Bradley is one tenacious defender, and has always reminded me of Rajah Bell, which is why I always considered him a good candidate for phoenix. Especially if the suns keep dragic, who's been guarding 2 guards in the dual PG lineup. Bradley and him can switch between PG and SG, depending on who you want Bradley to cover and still always have Dragic bring up the ball. He's so smart and quick, that very few people get a step on him, and he gets his hands in the way a lot (not really steals, but definitely disruptions. He's also become a reliable with catch and shoot 3's, and even better with a fake and stepping into a jumpshot. He's the one who booted Ray Allen from our championship starting lineup as a 20 year old...a team can definitely still compete with him on the roster. Olynyk is a shooting big, former lottery pick in his second year who'd be better coming off a bench for a good team than starting on a bad team. The pick this year can be anywhere from 7 to 15, depending on how the rest of the season shakes out, and next years is a later one, since we gave you our earlier one this draft.

I'm almost certain though that you'll say that the picks aren't good enough, and think this is more of a package for Isaiah Thomas (which is way too much for that skill level at this point for the Celtics)

terrible offer

I told ya.

I'm really interested in what they actually get for Bledsoe or dragic if they make one available, as I'm almost certain that it will be less than you'll think it should be. Value is dictated by market, and if phoenix is looking to move one when only a couple teams need one, you'll be picking from the best offer, not his true value. I learned this earlier this season, so I know it's not easy to accept. The two players in my offer are better than any of the players we got for Rondo, the same late first rounder...PLUS a pick 10-15 spots higher this year. I know Bledsoe is better, but I can only see 5 or 6 other teams that might make an offer, none of whom have very good players to trade.

To be honest, I'd rather have ty lawson than either of them, and would be willing to pay a little more for him. (although I wouldn't be upset with any of the available point guards this deadline/offseason).

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I honestly think that is about on par for value. Avery Bradley fits much better with Dragic and probably convinces Dragic to stay. Olynyk fills that Channing Frye role and his age fits well with the core, he allows Phoenix to always have a stretch 4 on the court. Not sure what the picks are but if one of them is Boston's then this just became a home run deal for Phoenix. This potentially opens up some time for Goodwin as well who seems like a fan/management favorite. Potential roster below not to mention they will have 2 first round picks. This team would be in great position to consolidate for a star player at a position of need.

2015/2016
Len/Wright
Morris/Olynyk
Tucker/Marc. Morris/Warren
Bradley/Goodwin
Dragic/Thomas/Ennis

Not sure if Boston does this. I imagine the idea is to have Smart/Bledsoe as some crazy athletic, pressure defense, fast break backcourt. Overall decent trade with the recent news of Suns wanting to shift guard heavy team.

[basketballwacko2]

If I understand the situation Phoenix needs to get bigger. They should be looking for a PF and to move the morris twins to SF. Of the 3 point guards the one with the least value is Dragic, because of his player option, he'd be crazy not to opt out. So getting a lot out of him is gonna be hard. The Suns could keep him and move IT, but you have to find the right team and who is willing to give big for little.

A trading partner is going to have to be someone who needs a PG and thinks they can resign Dragic, assuming he's the one getting traded.

I was thinking the Hornets now I know they just traded for Mo Williams but who cares. Hornets trade Stephenson, Zeller and Roberts for Dragic, Green and Plumlee.

On the surface this looks like a bad deal for the Suns, but Zeller is on a rookie deal 2 more years after this one. Lance has 2 yrs left on his $9 million per year deal, and he's clearly a bad fit in Char. So a change would do him good. But Lance's deal has a team option in the 3rd year, If he doesn't improve you can cut him or deal him at the dead line in 2016 for good value. I had Roberts in the deal as filler to make the money work.

[hcsilla]

I was thinking the Hornets now I know they just traded for Mo Williams but who cares. Hornets trade Stephenson, Zeller and Roberts for Dragic, Green and Plumlee.

On the surface this looks like a bad deal for the Suns,

Yes, it does and not only on the surface.

[Orens]

If I understand the situation Phoenix needs to get bigger. They should be looking for a PF and to move the morris twins to SF. Of the 3 point guards the one with the least value is Dragic, because of his player option, he'd be crazy not to opt out. So getting a lot out of him is gonna be hard. The Suns could keep him and move IT, but you have to find the right team and who is willing to give big for little.

A trading partner is going to have to be someone who needs a PG and thinks they can resign Dragic, assuming he's the one getting traded.

I was thinking the Hornets now I know they just traded for Mo Williams but who cares. Hornets trade Stephenson, Zeller and Roberts for Dragic, Green and Plumlee.

On the surface this looks like a bad deal for the Suns, but Zeller is on a rookie deal 2 more years after this one. Lance has 2 yrs left on his $9 million per year deal, and he's clearly a bad fit in Char. So a change would do him good. But Lance's deal has a team option in the 3rd year, If he doesn't improve you can cut him or deal him at the dead line in 2016 for good value. I had Roberts in the deal as filler to make the money work.

Kieff is a quality 4, not a SF. The team needs a reliable third big.

That trade is pure ugliness. The last thing the Suns need right now is a player like Lance who likes the ball in his hands (while losing Dragic, their only guard with the ability to play off the ball). Zeller won't improve their interior defense, rebounding issues.

[Golabki]

The Bledshow
- Excellent player, top 10 PG in the game. Versatile skill set that can fit any system. Locked into a favorable deal.
- He's worth a TON, I don't think Philly gives you an unprotected 2015 first, but I think he could get a top 3 protected pick from a team that's probably going to be in the top half of the lottery + some additional minor asset.

The Dragon
- Very good starting PG, but having a down year. Can run an elite offense, and good as a secondary option, but a less impactful player in that role. Only one year left on the deal, but easy to trade given the size.
- If you want to look for a comp for a recently trade established PG on an expiring deal, the obvious one is Rondo. Rondo was worth a 1st that will probably end up being relatively late, plus 2 interesting young players, neither of whom could be dealt for a first on their own. I'd say Dragic has a bit more value than Rondo because I think Rondo's lack of shooting was a deal breaker for a lot of teams. Maybe a top 10 protected pick from a team fighting to make the playoffs.

The IT guy
- Decent starting PG / overqualified bench scorer. VERY limited defensive player due to his size. His contract is cheap for a starting PG, but he's already the second highest paid "super short" PG in the history of the NBA... my point in bringing that up is that NBA teams value size.
- The fact is that IT was just a FA this past off season and a lot of the teams that are being proposed as potential trade options chose not to seriously pursue him in the FA market. I certainly think someone would give up a late first for him, but I don't think many teams see him as a long term solution as a starting PG. I think his value is a little less than Dragic.

[blind prophet]

I think Bledsoe has shown the necessary durability to be worth a great deal. Was some concerns there. Just 24, signed for 4 seasons after that. He makes a lot of loot, but the value should be quite high to the right team.

Dragic has little value to many people because he is going to do what he wants in the off season, if you do not intend to pay the man, don't make the mistake the Kings did with IT. Trade him now for something. I understand the notion of making a playoff push, but you are not going to win the ring in Phoenix. So unless you have some desire to be competitive with bids later fold em, and the price you get back will probably be disappointing.

Combine IT with Plumlee and I think you can get considerable value back. Target someone of need making 8-11 million or so on a longer term deal that you'd like to have around. I don't think you can get much with picks, but you could get a real solid player in return quite possibly.

[mlloyd10]

Do Suns fans really think that they can get a a top 15 pick for Dragic? I just don't see it, plus i don't see a playoff team outside of the rockets that need a starting PG that has money?

[Higgs Boston]

Do Suns fans really think that they can get a a top 15 pick for Dragic? I just don't see it, plus i don't see a playoff team outside of the rockets that need a starting PG that has money?

Dragic is very good player, he isn't only a PG, also can play as SG.

[Sun Scorched]

I think a lot of you suggesting that Dragic has low value, then suggesting that the Suns should trade him, are ignorant of the irony presented within your own thought.

If anything, the Suns ink Dragic to a 4-year (maybe 5yr) deal this offseason to preserve value, not trade it for cents on the dollar. Dragic/Bledsoe works. Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas doesn't.

You trade Thomas. Not Bledsoe.

Those suggesting Thomas/Plumlee are closer to an answer, give or take, than those suggesting Dragic packs his bags.

[LarsV8]

I think a lot of you suggesting that Dragic has low value, then suggesting that the Suns should trade him, are ignorant of the irony presented within your own thought.

If anything, the Suns ink Dragic to a 4-year (maybe 5yr) deal this offseason to preserve value, not trade it for cents on the dollar. Dragic/Bledsoe works. Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas doesn't.

There is nothing ignorant or ironic about any of it.

Dragic is a guaranteed 30 game rental for every team, Suns included. That is all he is. If his actions in free agency were known, this wouldn't be a topic of discussion.

To blanketly dismiss the risk of him doing the unexpected in free agency is what is ignorant.

[12buckets]

I think a lot of you suggesting that Dragic has low value, then suggesting that the Suns should trade him, are ignorant of the irony presented within your own thought.

If anything, the Suns ink Dragic to a 4-year (maybe 5yr) deal this offseason to preserve value, not trade it for cents on the dollar. Dragic/Bledsoe works. Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas doesn't.

You trade Thomas. Not Bledsoe.

Those suggesting Thomas/Plumlee are closer to an answer, give or take, than those suggesting Dragic packs his bags.

Isn't your own gm saying dragic is available for a first rounder? Even if he's not the source, you can't deny that the stories are out there, and people read those stories and come up with ideas. In those stories, his team option and high salary demand are the reasons he's the one the suns are making available. It truly sounds like the suns don't want to pay his price the next four years (and they've never been big spenders, so it has logic)

There have been no stories about IT being available, for any price. You can't blame people for working with the information they're given.



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