PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: Boston Celtics

[brackdan70]

No Poll?

[Texas Chuck]

No Poll?

sorry--that's what happens when PMOTT makes me post them all.... I always forget (plus I hate polls)

[Curmudgeon]

If making "big splash" trades for name players were always the answer, then the 2013-14 Brooklyn Nets would have been one of the greatest teams in history.

The roster was a revolving door last year, and what this team needed was stability, not more upheaval via big trades. The Celtics have 11 players age 25 or under and only one player--David Lee- is over 28. Let's see how the young guys progress after a full training camp in which the competition for minutes is brutal.

As for Rozier, he's the same kind of player as Dennis Schroeder, who was picked 17th. There was no one I liked more who was picked after him, with the possible exception of Justin Anderson.

[RR9]

I think Danny's going all in the next summer:

Unrestricted big names:

Durant
Noah
Horford
Derozan

and some other RFAs like Beal, Drummond, Barnes, MKG.

These are all obviously rather unlikely, but this is what all the financials point toward.

[Worm122]

I think Danny's going all in the next summer:

Unrestricted big names:

Durant
Noah
Horford
Derozan

and some other RFAs like Beal, Drummond, Barnes, MKG.

These are all obviously rather unlikely, but this is what all the financials point toward.

If the Celtics wont overpay i realy like the acquisitions of MKG and Barnes two young and solid players

[Curmudgeon]

By the trade deadline, the value of the Celtics' young players will have sorted itself out, which will make it easier to to deals. The value of the Brooklyn pick will also be clearer.

[sonictecture]

If making "big splash" trades for name players were always the answer, then the 2013-14 Brooklyn Nets would have been one of the greatest teams in history.

The roster was a revolving door last year, and what this team needed was stability, not more upheaval via big trades. The Celtics have 11 players age 25 or under and only one player--David Lee- is over 28. Let's see how the young guys progress after a full training camp in which the competition for minutes is brutal.

As for Rozier, he's the same kind of player as Dennis Schroeder, who was picked 17th. There was no one I liked more who was picked after him, with the possible exception of Justin Anderson.

A key difference between Rozier and Schroeder is Schroeder's advanced ability to run a team and pass with vision at 18-19 years old. Rozier doesn't have those skills and is already older than Schroeder. The player Rozier does remind me of is one of Aing'es first draft picks, Marcus Banks. Athletic, powerfully built, a questionable shooter and decision maker. I guess we'll see how the brain mapping technology as developed over the years.

When outside observers look at the Boston roster I don't think they see any players that match up as core franchise players to current contending teams. There was a thread last week about could a team of role players contend for a championship and it seems Ainge is trying to test the theory.

[Patsfan1081]

If making "big splash" trades for name players were always the answer, then the 2013-14 Brooklyn Nets would have been one of the greatest teams in history.

The roster was a revolving door last year, and what this team needed was stability, not more upheaval via big trades. The Celtics have 11 players age 25 or under and only one player--David Lee- is over 28. Let's see how the young guys progress after a full training camp in which the competition for minutes is brutal.

As for Rozier, he's the same kind of player as Dennis Schroeder, who was picked 17th. There was no one I liked more who was picked after him, with the possible exception of Justin Anderson.

A key difference between Rozier and Schroeder is Schroeder's advanced ability to run a team and pass with vision at 18-19 years old. Rozier doesn't have those skills and is already older than Schroeder. The player Rozier does remind me of is one of Aing'es first draft picks, Marcus Banks. Athletic, powerfully built, a questionable shooter and decision maker. I guess we'll see how the brain mapping technology as developed over the years.

When outside observers look at the Boston roster I don't think they see any players that match up as core franchise players to current contending teams. There was a thread last week about could a team of role players contend for a championship and it seems Ainge is trying to test the theory.

I don't see similarities to Schroeder, Rozier is very quick and long ,can get to the rim, but he has a lot of work to do if he wants to play point. I still don't understand the pick unless they do something to clean up the logjam.

[Patsfan1081]

Although I agree it was disappointing that Boston couldn't get a big star or a top draft name, that's a goal that almost every team has every year and very few can ever get it done. So I don't hold that too much against them.

I still hated their draft, though. Rozier may turn out to be a fine player, maybe even a very good one...no way to know that yet. But he was a huge reach to play a position that Boston didn't even need. So from a value perspective, it's almost inexcusably bad. Even if Boston really liked Rozier they could likely have traded *way* down and still got him. No problem with either Hunter or Mickey but they would have had to be *huge* steals to make up for this, and I wouldn't call either of them that.

After Plan A fell through, they had to go to Plan B...get more competitive but keep all the contracts manageable. And they did that, getting Crowder affordably and bringing in Lee and Amir Johnson on expiring (or potentially expiring) deals, even if both guys are overpaid on an AAV basis.

The team is better on the court and I really only hated one move. I do agree that the Celts are going to have to find *some* way to consolidate soon. Between their kids and their draft picks they're not even going to have enough roster spots to play them all, so something's going to have to give.

I hated the Rozier pick, but if they drafted Hunter at sixteen and Rozier at twenty eight it wouldn't have been a reach for either, so it balances out. This draft was kind of meh for me past Turner.

[loserX]

Although I agree it was disappointing that Boston couldn't get a big star or a top draft name, that's a goal that almost every team has every year and very few can ever get it done. So I don't hold that too much against them.

I still hated their draft, though. Rozier may turn out to be a fine player, maybe even a very good one...no way to know that yet. But he was a huge reach to play a position that Boston didn't even need. So from a value perspective, it's almost inexcusably bad. Even if Boston really liked Rozier they could likely have traded *way* down and still got him. No problem with either Hunter or Mickey but they would have had to be *huge* steals to make up for this, and I wouldn't call either of them that.

After Plan A fell through, they had to go to Plan B...get more competitive but keep all the contracts manageable. And they did that, getting Crowder affordably and bringing in Lee and Amir Johnson on expiring (or potentially expiring) deals, even if both guys are overpaid on an AAV basis.

The team is better on the court and I really only hated one move. I do agree that the Celts are going to have to find *some* way to consolidate soon. Between their kids and their draft picks they're not even going to have enough roster spots to play them all, so something's going to have to give.

I hated the Rozier pick, but if they drafted Hunter at sixteen and Rozier at twenty eight it wouldn't have been a reach for either, so it balances out. This draft was kind of meh for me past Turner.

Disagree. I personally think Hunter would still have been a reach at 16, though not as egregious as Rozier was.

Rozier was a bigger reach than Hunter was a steal, so overall it doesn't balance out. (IMHO, as always. If you love Hunter at 16, your resulting opinion will be different than mine!)

[Texas Chuck]

I have less a problem with "the reach" on Rozier than the fit. I mean if the Celtics had him as BPA and they must have, then I say trust your scouts and don't get cute hoping he falls. Take your guy. But Smart looked pretty promising last year and Thomas represents amazing value and a great complement to him. I don't understand where Rozier fits here except as an asset or to turn Smart or Thomas into an asset. Just seemed really odd all the way around.

I mean we all know Ainge tried really hard to move up so its hard to fault him too much, but this is another off-season where they added more guys who project as depth players to the point where they are going to have to trade/waive a decent NBA player just to get to 15 and have more guys who deserve minutes than minutes to give. They really need some consolidation especially with all those picks stock-piled.

[Smitty731]

I more or less agreed with what you guys wrote up in my piece for the site.

I didn't get the Rozier fit. They already have Smart and Bradley who are PGs in size, but not in game. Rozier seems like more of the same. Many Danny Ainge really just likes guards who are the opposite of him as a player!

I love the Johnson signing. Sure, it maybe have been an overpay, but it was only for one year. He'll give the Celtics some defense, which is something none of their other bigs do. Lee can at least play, which is more than can be said for Wallace.

Bringing back Crowder on such a nice deal was awesome. Same with Jerebko.

All that said, the Celtics are lacking big time on the wing. Turner, Crowder, Bradley and....whoever. Is not really a great wing grouping. Jerebko may have to play some backup SF and Crowder some backup SG, just because there aren't other options who are ready. The backcourt is a bit crowded, but nothing compared to the frontcourt.

As much as anything is a lock, this is not going to be the Celtics roster that finishes the year. Danny Ainge will definitely be looking to deal all season long, right up the deadline. I don't think there is a single untouchable piece on the roster. And he'll be looking for a consolidation trade in terms of young players and picks to land a star or a shot at a star.

[Patsfan1081]

I more or less agreed with what you guys wrote up in my piece for the site.

I didn't get the Rozier fit. They already have Smart and Bradley who are PGs in size, but not in game. Rozier seems like more of the same. Many Danny Ainge really just likes guards who are the opposite of him as a player!

I love the Johnson signing. Sure, it maybe have been an overpay, but it was only for one year. He'll give the Celtics some defense, which is something none of their other bigs do. Lee can at least play, which is more than can be said for Wallace.

Bringing back Crowder on such a nice deal was awesome. Same with Jerebko.

All that said, the Celtics are lacking big time on the wing. Turner, Crowder, Bradley and....whoever. Is not really a great wing grouping. Jerebko may have to play some backup SF and Crowder some backup SG, just because there aren't other options who are ready. The backcourt is a bit crowded, but nothing compared to the frontcourt.

As much as anything is a lock, this is not going to be the Celtics roster that finishes the year. Danny Ainge will definitely be looking to deal all season long, right up the deadline. I don't think there is a single untouchable piece on the roster. And he'll be looking for a consolidation trade in terms of young players and picks to land a star or a shot at a star.

The draft and free agency period hasn't made sense to me. You bring in rookies to a crowded position that have to fight with other young guys for minutes, then you bring in vets at the pf position that are only gaurenteed one year that also will take away minutes from younger players. For a team lacking stars and a big asset it just doesn't seem smart to have so many players to have to dole out minutes to. Most playoff teams have a rotation of what eight or nine with their starters getting thirty minutes a night. They had this problem the first half of last season were their rotation was too big.

[jazzfan1971]

I think other GMs smell blood in the water after the offer Ainge put out to Charlotte ot move up this draft. Boston is getting desparate to consolidate and teams know it. It's going to be even harder now to make that big splash as teams will try to get everything you have and the kitchen sink in a deal.

I look at that team and am shocked it's a playoff squad. By my eye they are not only lacking in stars, but in STARTERS. Almost every one of their projected starters seems to me to be a bench level player on a good team. Frankly I don't know how they are having the success they are. Maybe they are overachieving a bit?

Which is kinda sad, because they are locking themselves out of the lotto and one avenue to get those star players they so desparately need.

It's a really tough situation that Ainge finds himself. It'll be interesting to see how he leads the team out of it.

[Texas Chuck]

I look at that team and am shocked it's a playoff squad. By my eye they are not only lacking in stars, but in STARTERS. Almost every one of their projected starters seems to me to be a bench level player on a good team. Frankly I don't know how they are having the success they are. Maybe they are overachieving a bit?

.

1. It's the East so the standards for making the playoff are much easier
2. I think their coach is pretty darn good
3. They do lack high quality starters, but their bench is really strong so that helps. They can mix and match lineups in lots of ways with very little drop off. Allows you to give max effort at all times too because no one is asked to play heavy minutes.


But I think Thomas has the impact of an average starting PG even tho he comes off the bench. Bradley is probably an average starting SG considering the lack of talent at that position at the moment. I agree that at the front-court positions they don't have anything but marginal starters/quality reserves.

[jazzfan1971]

Ok, replace, 'Almost every one' with 'the majority of'.

[Trader_Joe]

I look at that team and am shocked it's a playoff squad. By my eye they are not only lacking in stars, but in STARTERS. Almost every one of their projected starters seems to me to be a bench level player on a good team. Frankly I don't know how they are having the success they are. Maybe they are overachieving a bit?

.

1. It's the East so the standards for making the playoff are much easier
2. I think their coach is pretty darn good
3. They do lack high quality starters, but their bench is really strong so that helps. They can mix and match lineups in lots of ways with very little drop off. Allows you to give max effort at all times too because no one is asked to play heavy minutes.


But I think Thomas has the impact of an average starting PG even tho he comes off the bench. Bradley is probably an average starting SG considering the lack of talent at that position at the moment. I agree that at the front-court positions they don't have anything but marginal starters/quality reserves.

I think Amir is definitely a starting quality big.

[jazzfan1971]

Well, I"m splitting hairs a bit, so excuse me for that, but, I was looking at this depth chart when I said that.

Tyler Zeller/Amir Johnson/Mickey
Sullinger/Olynyk/Lee
Crowder/Turner/Jerebko
Bradley/Young/Hunter
Smart/Thomas/Rozier

Tyler Zeller - yeah he could improve he's young, but to date hasn't shown to be a starter quality player.
Sullinger - I think it's pretty obvious he isn't a starter. YMMV.
Crowder - Never shown to be a starter.
Bradley - I guess he's starter quality. I just see him as more of a combo guard off the bench on a good team than a starter. YMMV.
Smart/Thomas - This position was the one position I was thinking of when I added 'almost' to my thought. Looks like starting quality to me.

I guess if you re-arrange the lineup a bit to put Amir and Lee in there it looks like they have more starters, I was just going by this depth chart is all.

[jazzfan1971]

Yeah, looking at that depth chart it's easy to see the quality of the bench. I'm wondering which 5 man unit would win in practice?

Zeller, Sully, Crowder, Bradley, Smart
or
Amir, Olynyk, Turner, Young, Thomas

I'm not sure you can pick a winner between those two squads, can you?

[Golabki]

Well, I"m splitting hairs a bit, so excuse me for that, but, I was looking at this depth chart when I said that.

Tyler Zeller/Amir Johnson/Mickey
Sullinger/Olynyk/Lee
Crowder/Turner/Jerebko
Bradley/Young/Hunter
Smart/Thomas/Rozier

Tyler Zeller - yeah he could improve he's young, but to date hasn't shown to be a starter quality player.
Sullinger - I think it's pretty obvious he isn't a starter. YMMV.
Crowder - Never shown to be a starter.
Bradley - I guess he's starter quality. I just see him as more of a combo guard off the bench on a good team than a starter. YMMV.
Smart/Thomas - This position was the one position I was thinking of when I added 'almost' to my thought. Looks like starting quality to me.

I guess if you re-arrange the lineup a bit to put Amir and Lee in there it looks like they have more starters, I was just going by this depth chart is all.

Zeller I think is similar to robin Lopez, good enough to start adequately if needed or a really good back up. And he's prbably coming off the bench this year.

I don't get why people don't see sully as a good player.

Crowder doesn't have a ton of minutes logged, but he seems like a very solid rotation player.