CHA/NYK

[nykballa2k4]

Jefferson is a horrible fit for the Knicks. The pick wouldn't be all that valuable. And Hairston has little value. Jefferson would only take touches away from Porzingis, while also severely weakening the defense. Lopez is basically the exact type of C you want next to a young PF. He needs no touches on offense and will do all the dirty work. If the Knicks move Lopez, I expect it to be in a deal where Porzingis slides over to C.

Charlotte should jump all over this. Afflalo is better than anyone else they have at SG right now and Lopez would add a much needed defensive presence inside.

They'd start Oquinn, who a lot of Knicks fans feel is better anyway while Al Jeff would provide some offense off the bench. Either way though, this isnt a move for this year. The Knicks are gonna be outside looking into the playoffs this year, so why not make a move for next year. They get a pick and the ability to offer 2 max contracts. With Batums comments about wanting to play in a big market and Memphis downward spiral, getting both Conley/Batum could be in play

This deal doesn't address the Knicks big needs. Jefferson makes a good upgrade over Seraphin in terms of reliable points in the pot and he could be a good fit in the triangle, but overall the Knicks need help at the guard positions particularly on defense.

Afflalo is a BIG part of what Knicks are hoping to do this year. Lopez really as well. I can see Knicks moving Lopez if it really fits (lets say Phil likes Al) but I cannot see us losing a guard.

"The Great Kristaps" can play C in spurts, but kid looks like Linsanity post-Melo (aka after D'Antoni rode him like Secretariat). He needs fewer minutes so he can develop and not get hurt. Al is an injury risk so I don't really like this move from the perspective.


Good overall attempt though and should the Knicks look bad by the deadline, this would be a re-explore type option. We would probably want to part with Derrick Williams over Afflalo though.

[RollingWave]

I think that's the general issue right now, generally speaking, most slow centers are like just not assets anymore unless they're like Rudy freaking Gobert.

[Reign23]

no to this trade as a knicks fan. the first rounder could end up in the 20s

[HartfordWhalers]

Al Jefferson
Brian Roberts

For

Aaron Afflalo
Jose Calderon

NY has no need to pay to move Calderon's contract. Also, Afflalo is a better fit in NY than Al Jefferson.

I would view losing Afflalo, who has a player option for next year anyway, as a small cost to pay to free up Calderon's cap space for next year.

Personally I think that is a great deal for both.

[antoniodavis23]

Big Al for Robin Lopez is the better trade for the 2 teams

[R-DAWG]

Al Jefferson
Brian Roberts

For

Aaron Afflalo
Jose Calderon

NY has no need to pay to move Calderon's contract. Also, Afflalo is a better fit in NY than Al Jefferson.

I would view losing Afflalo, who has a player option for next year anyway, as a small cost to pay to free up Calderon's cap space for next year.

Personally I think that is a great deal for both.

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

[HartfordWhalers]

NY has no need to pay to move Calderon's contract. Also, Afflalo is a better fit in NY than Al Jefferson.

I would view losing Afflalo, who has a player option for next year anyway, as a small cost to pay to free up Calderon's cap space for next year.

Personally I think that is a great deal for both.

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

Jose being not a bad contract is news to me. Similarly, the idea that he is a 'loss' to move is a new idea. If you are happy with what Calderon is giving you, I dunno.

(Also, Afflalo last year will have been traded for 2nds, not a 1st when it is all said and done.)

[R-DAWG]

I would view losing Afflalo, who has a player option for next year anyway, as a small cost to pay to free up Calderon's cap space for next year.

Personally I think that is a great deal for both.

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

Jose being not a bad contract is news to me. Similarly, the idea that he is a 'loss' to move is a new idea. If you are happy with what Calderon is giving you, I dunno.

(Also, Afflalo last year will have been traded for 2nds, not a 1st when it is all said and done.)

For 2 2nd's id' prefer to keep Afflalo. I also see no point in giving up anything of value to move Calderon. If we move Calderon and Afflalo our team is significantly worse this year and there is no guarantee that the cap space will result in a player as good as Afflalo or if the space will even be needed. Remember we don't own our pick this year and have 0 need for Jefferson.

Moving Calderon and saving essentially $2.5 million in cap space next year is not even close to a priority for the Knicks right now. Downgrading the team to save $2.5 million in a year where we don't have a pick is not going to happen. The countless proposals on this board throwing in a Calderon dump as value for the Knicks needs to stop. It's not happening.

Also, Afflalo tried to force his way to NY last year and seems very happy here. Just because he's got an opt out doesn't mean he won't be back. He's the kind of guy you want on your team and in your locker room.

[HartfordWhalers]

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

Jose being not a bad contract is news to me. Similarly, the idea that he is a 'loss' to move is a new idea. If you are happy with what Calderon is giving you, I dunno.

(Also, Afflalo last year will have been traded for 2nds, not a 1st when it is all said and done.)

For 2 2nd's id' prefer to keep Afflalo. I also see no point in giving up anything of value to move Calderon. If we move Calderon and Afflalo our team is significantly worse this year and there is no guarantee that the cap space will result in a player as good as Afflalo or if the space will even be needed. Remember we don't own our pick this year and have 0 need for Jefferson.

Moving Calderon and saving essentially $2.5 million in cap space next year is not even close to a priority for the Knicks right now. Downgrading the team to save $2.5 million in a year where we don't have a pick is not going to happen. The countless proposals on this board throwing in a Calderon dump as value for the Knicks needs to stop. It's not happening.

Also, Afflalo tried to force his way to NY last year and seems very happy here. Just because he's got an opt out doesn't mean he won't be back. He's the kind of guy you want on your team and in your locker room.

Essentially saving 2.5m? I'm definitely singling you out in particular, but in general If ind it amazing how people will take the stretch provision, assume its is even wise to use, and then ignore that it would also cost an extra 2.5m the year after in cap room as well. Or the year after that. It is such a mischaracterization.

[HartfordWhalers]

But since Calderon's cap room is not of value for NYK, it would be great if they would offer to take Landry's hit of the same amount for free

[Texas Chuck]

HW-- its a lost cause. Sadly we have some Knicks fans who don't understand the concept of sunk cost and thus they can't see the benefit of moves that set them better moving forward because they are so concerned with what pick Denver or Toronto gets even tho it has no impact on the Knicks whatsoever. It's like some huge psychological hang-up for some of their fans. Not all, but a vocal minority at least.
\
They aren't real contenders this year, but could certainly be a strong playoff team next year and I'd be looking towards that goal rather than worrying about the Raptors getting a pick 3 slots higher.

[HartfordWhalers]

I'm just confused how dumping Calderon isn't of value. Is the expectation really that next summer the Knicks cannot sign anyone better than Calderon for his money?

[Swoosh_Stripes]

HW-- its a lost cause. Sadly we have some Knicks fans who don't understand the concept of sunk cost and thus they can't see the benefit of moves that set them better moving forward because they are so concerned with what pick Denver or Toronto gets even tho it has no impact on the Knicks whatsoever. It's like some huge psychological hang-up for some of their fans. Not all, but a vocal minority at least.
\
They aren't real contenders this year, but could certainly be a strong playoff team next year and I'd be looking towards that goal rather than worrying about the Raptors getting a pick 3 slots higher.

Knicks may not be real contenders but that doesn't mean that they should go into tank mode to help the Hornets get better. What killed the Knicks las offseason was the fact that they only won 17 games and they were chasing free agents with a depleted roster, what's the point of trading away Afflalo for the sake of getting rid of Calderon salary if you are unable to sign any free agents? The extra cap room will serve no purpose, but even if the Knicks end up on the outside looking in, as a 9-11 spot, they can sell the improvement to prospective free agents. Going through another season of selling off players and finishing at the bottom of the eastern conference is not an option. The Knicks have just as much chance of going to the finals as the Mavs, why aren't you advocating the Mavs trade Dirk, Zaza, and every other player worth trading? It's alright for Mavs fans to want a competitive product but it's a lost cause when it pertains to NY.

[nykballa2k4]

NY has no need to pay to move Calderon's contract. Also, Afflalo is a better fit in NY than Al Jefferson.

I would view losing Afflalo, who has a player option for next year anyway, as a small cost to pay to free up Calderon's cap space for next year.

Personally I think that is a great deal for both.

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

May not be as bad as you think. It would put Galloway into the starer role. Roberts would have to step up as a reserve meanwhile we look for an upgrade. Grant has an opportunity to emerge. we actually get faster because Calderon is no longer there. Afflalo is a huge loss, but Early would get a chance to sink/swim.

[Texas Chuck]

The Knicks have just as much chance of going to the finals as the Mavs, why aren't you advocating the Mavs trade Dirk, Zaza, and every other player worth trading? It's alright for Mavs fans to want a competitive product but it's a lost cause when it pertains to NY.

It's a fair question and if it were up to me I'd be a seller for the Mavs--I think I've been consistently clear on that. Tho I understand you aren't around here all the time and while you might lurk I don't see you post outside of Knicks threads so you might not have seen it. But I also understand Cuban wanting to put a real team on the floor around Dirk rather than make him end his career on a terrible team.

But yeah Dallas isn't going anywhere and in fact while our floor is higher, our ceiling this year is lower than the Knicks. We don't have a player as good as Melo and we don't have a guy with the potential to increase his level of play further to the degree Zingis might could (exception being Parsons maybe getting healthy). But we are going nowhere and don't have our pick either and don't have any young players really to point to for the future.

So yeah I'd say the Mavs should sell Zaza and Dwill--those players would have some value to a contender for sure. And if Parsons came back and looked decent by the all-star break maybe him too--tho he's young enough to be here through a re-build. And while I love Matthews--if some team offered us the chance to get out from that contract we should take it.

But we ain't trading Dirk. You can disagree but that guy is Dallas Mavericks basketball. And I'll sacrifice what value he could bring to have him retire having never played elsewhere. Plus like Melo he controls his own destiny with a NTC.

[Swoosh_Stripes]

The Knicks have just as much chance of going to the finals as the Mavs, why aren't you advocating the Mavs trade Dirk, Zaza, and every other player worth trading? It's alright for Mavs fans to want a competitive product but it's a lost cause when it pertains to NY.

It's a fair question and if it were up to me I'd be a seller for the Mavs--I think I've been consistently clear on that. Tho I understand you aren't around here all the time and while you might lurk I don't see you post outside of Knicks threads so you might not have seen it. But I also understand Cuban wanting to put a real team on the floor around Dirk rather than make him end his career on a terrible team.

But yeah Dallas isn't going anywhere and in fact while our floor is higher, our ceiling this year is lower than the Knicks. We don't have a player as good as Melo and we don't have a guy with the potential to increase his level of play further to the degree Zingis might could (exception being Parsons maybe getting healthy). But we are going nowhere and don't have our pick either and don't have any young players really to point to for the future.

So yeah I'd say the Mavs should sell Zaza and Dwill--those players would have some value to a contender for sure. And if Parsons came back and looked decent by the all-star break maybe him too--tho he's young enough to be here through a re-build. And while I love Matthews--if some team offered us the chance to get out from that contract we should take it.

But we ain't trading Dirk. You can disagree but that guy is Dallas Mavericks basketball. And I'll sacrifice what value he could bring to have him retire having never played elsewhere. Plus like Melo he controls his own destiny with a NTC.

Fair enough, but for the Knicks being sellers is not ideal, not because of the pick, but it's pointless to trade away Afflalo for cap space that would be difficult to take advantage of if the Knicks tank. If the Knicks get a commitment from a big free agent, then giving up value to get rid of Calderon becomes a move worth doing, but right now there's no reason to give up the Knicks' starting backcourt for a backup PG and another center.

[R-DAWG]

Jose being not a bad contract is news to me. Similarly, the idea that he is a 'loss' to move is a new idea. If you are happy with what Calderon is giving you, I dunno.

(Also, Afflalo last year will have been traded for 2nds, not a 1st when it is all said and done.)

For 2 2nd's id' prefer to keep Afflalo. I also see no point in giving up anything of value to move Calderon. If we move Calderon and Afflalo our team is significantly worse this year and there is no guarantee that the cap space will result in a player as good as Afflalo or if the space will even be needed. Remember we don't own our pick this year and have 0 need for Jefferson.

Moving Calderon and saving essentially $2.5 million in cap space next year is not even close to a priority for the Knicks right now. Downgrading the team to save $2.5 million in a year where we don't have a pick is not going to happen. The countless proposals on this board throwing in a Calderon dump as value for the Knicks needs to stop. It's not happening.

Also, Afflalo tried to force his way to NY last year and seems very happy here. Just because he's got an opt out doesn't mean he won't be back. He's the kind of guy you want on your team and in your locker room.

Essentially saving 2.5m? I'm definitely singling you out in particular, but in general If ind it amazing how people will take the stretch provision, assume its is even wise to use, and then ignore that it would also cost an extra 2.5m the year after in cap room as well. Or the year after that. It is such a mischaracterization.

The stretch provision is a tool that allows you to work the cap. It limits the need to surrender an asset to open cap space.

Example - The Knicks decide to stretch Calderon and sign player X to a 3 year, $30 million deal. The effective cost of said player is essentially $37.7 million, or $12.5 million per year.

Look at it this way - would you give up $2.5 million per year for a first round pick.

Lastly - people need to stop throwing out the Knicks moving Calderon's contract as value in every trade. The Knicks aren't short on cap space next summer and if it becomes an issue they will be able to move Calderon with a pick. To give up an asset for cap space you might not need is beyond stupid.

We like our team, they are enjoyable to watch, we don't have our pick. We are not giving up our starting back court for cap space w elikely will not need.

[R-DAWG]

I'm just confused how dumping Calderon isn't of value. Is the expectation really that next summer the Knicks cannot sign anyone better than Calderon for his money?

Who? At what cost? How many years?

In a year we don't have our pick who steps in and is the starting point guard? How do we recover from losing our 2nd best player (Afflalo) and entire starting back court?

We have max cap space to begin with, how much more do we need?

Dude, we have this player under contract, it didn't effect anything this past summer. It likely won't effect anything this summer.

We like the team we have right now. They are fun to watch. We don't own our pick.

[R-DAWG]

I would view losing Afflalo, who has a player option for next year anyway, as a small cost to pay to free up Calderon's cap space for next year.

Personally I think that is a great deal for both.

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

May not be as bad as you think. It would put Galloway into the starer role. Roberts would have to step up as a reserve meanwhile we look for an upgrade. Grant has an opportunity to emerge. we actually get faster because Calderon is no longer there. Afflalo is a huge loss, but Early would get a chance to sink/swim.

Afflalo is arguably the 2nd best player on the team and best all around player on the team. Calderon isn't blocking Grant, Grant's shooitng is blocking Grant. And Early isn't an NBA player.

The Knicks are 10 wins worse, in a year we don't own our pick, with this trade. And the Knicks already have a surplus of cap space in a summer when every team has cap space and there is limited talent available. All the extra cap space will allow you to do is significantly overpay for mediocre players.

[HartfordWhalers]

Look at it this way - would you give up $2.5 million per year for a first round pick.

I wouldn't describe Afflalo as a first round pick.