Huge Westbrook blockbuster w/ BOS, POR, and possibly Nets

[username_taken]

Don't see why OKC would trade their second best player in the middle of a potential title run and with Durant as an upcoming FA

[j-ragg]

Yeah this isn't very good value for a top 5 player.

[King of Canada]

And OKC quickly becomes a struggling team after KD leaves for nothing.

[Prokorov]

the kanter for lopez part of this trade is absurd

[Prokorov]

Boston trades their entire future for a guy who can walk away after next year? I'm not all about saying guys who can be expiring have lessened value, but that is a massive risk. I love Westbrook, but if he left, the Celtics are in really bad shape.

while all of that is true.... none of it really would effect the thunder. westbrook maybe leaving the celtics after the trade might make boston give up less, but it wouldnt make thunder accept less.

[Goldbum]

Gawd awful for Portland as well.

[VIPER8382]

It seems like the 2016 Nets unprotected 1st has gotten completely lost in this deal. That pick is currently projected as 3rd overall, and it has a very good chance of getting even better as the Nets are simply abysmal. I understand that it is assumed that McCollum and Thomas will drop off some in OKC, but I would fully expect these 2 20+ ppg scorers to still average 15-18 ppg. Then on top of that they are getting the solid Avery Bradley and very good young bigs in Plumlee and Olynyk. I don't expect either to become a star, but they are pretty nice to have as your 3rd and 4th bigs respectively. Also seemingly lost in this, and I didn't even point it out myself, but this deal would give the Thunder some free agent money to play with even after retaining Durant, who would be absolutely foolish to leave this team built very well around him, I mean seriously where is the weakness in that depth chart?

I understand the hesitancy to break up Westbrook and Durant, but keep in mind that they have been together for a while, and while it has been impressive at times, they haven't won a championship and with the way the Warriors are playing it doesn't look like their path is any easier, so it may be time for each to have their own team, built around them. I think this deal gives that to Durant, while giving Westbrook a chance to pursue his elsewhere.

From the responses it seems that I need to make this better for all 4 teams, lol, which actually indicates that it may be more fair than any team's fanbase cares to admit. It seems though that the Nets part just needs scrapped though, so I will see if I come up with a worthy follow up without the Nets, but I still encourage any more feedback.

[bondom34]

It seems like the 2016 Nets unprotected 1st has gotten completely lost in this deal. That pick is currently projected as 3rd overall, and it has a very good chance of getting even better as the Nets are simply abysmal. I understand that it is assumed that McCollum and Thomas will drop off some in OKC, but I would fully expect these 2 20+ ppg scorers to still average 15-18 ppg. Then on top of that they are getting the solid Avery Bradley and very good young bigs in Plumlee and Olynyk. I don't expect either to become a star, but they are pretty nice to have as your 3rd and 4th bigs respectively. Also seemingly lost in this, and I didn't even point it out myself, but this deal would give the Thunder some free agent money to play with even after retaining Durant, who would be absolutely foolish to leave this team built very well around him, I mean seriously where is the weakness in that depth chart?

I understand the hesitancy to break up Westbrook and Durant, but keep in mind that they have been together for a while, and while it has been impressive at times, they haven't won a championship and with the way the Warriors are playing it doesn't look like their path is any easier, so it may be time for each to have their own team, built around them. I think this deal gives that to Durant, while giving Westbrook a chance to pursue his elsewhere.

From the responses it seems that I need to make this better for all 4 teams, lol, which actually indicates that it may be more fair than any team's fanbase cares to admit. It seems though that the Nets part just needs scrapped though, so I will see if I come up with a worthy follow up without the Nets, but I still encourage any more feedback.

Westbrook and Durant haven't had a healthy season together in 3 yrs. And breaking the better player into smaller pieces isn't going to help. The pick isn't "lost", its just not a good trade.

[Andre Roberstan]

It seems like the 2016 Nets unprotected 1st has gotten completely lost in this deal. That pick is currently projected as 3rd overall, and it has a very good chance of getting even better as the Nets are simply abysmal.

Sure, but giving pick value to win-now teams isn't the way to go. And this draft looks more and more like a 2- or 3-player draft. If that Nets pick isn't as good as expected, it could be real bad.

I understand that it is assumed that McCollum and Thomas will drop off some in OKC, but I would fully expect these 2 20+ ppg scorers to still average 15-18 ppg. Then on top of that they are getting the solid Avery Bradley and very good young bigs in Plumlee and Olynyk. I don't expect either to become a star, but they are pretty nice to have as your 3rd and 4th bigs respectively.

McCollum and Thomas are both good scorers, but we're losing a lot defensively, and we're losing a good chunk of our rebounding in Westbrook. You also have made basically our entire big rotation expire in 2017. Good job, good effort.

Also seemingly lost in this, and I didn't even point it out myself, but this deal would give the Thunder some free agent money to play with even after retaining Durant, who would be absolutely foolish to leave this team built very well around him, I mean seriously where is the weakness in that depth chart?

The weakness is that you've made us into the George Karl Nuggets. And the Thunder never make noise in FA, because no one wants to live in OKC apparently. (I like it here, but whatever)

I understand the hesitancy to break up Westbrook and Durant, but keep in mind that they have been together for a while, and while it has been impressive at times, they haven't won a championship and with the way the Warriors are playing it doesn't look like their path is any easier, so it may be time for each to have their own team, built around them. I think this deal gives that to Durant, while giving Westbrook a chance to pursue his elsewhere.

I'd take the question of why we haven't won up with Pat Bev and Ibaka's legs, but whatever, that's neither here nor there.

From the responses it seems that I need to make this better for all 4 teams, lol, which actually indicates that it may be more fair than any team's fanbase cares to admit.

No, it means you've completely misjudged the needs and wants of each team.

It seems though that the Nets part just needs scrapped though, so I will see if I come up with a worthy follow up without the Nets, but I still encourage any more feedback.

The problem I have with this is that we turn one of KD's best buddies and a top 5 player in the league into depth, which is great if you want to be a second round out and not get calls in the playoffs. The only team we have that proves you can build a title-level team without 2 top players is the Pistons, who are an anomaly of anomalies and benefitted from the horrible Shaq/Kobe dynamic (though not taking away from them, that was an excellent team).

This is a pretty nice Thunder team you're making. But you cannot replace a dollar with 4 quarters in basketball—biggest reason being that there's a limit to the number of players you can keep on the court at the same time, which means that individual talents play a disproportionate role as opposed to other sports like soccer and football.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Westbrook is one of the best players in the NBA. The only way to even consider trading him is if Durant comes to them and says he flat wont resign if Westbrook is there - which doesn't make a lot of sense. If their hand is forced like that then sure, this isn't the worst out-come, but its just so unlikely a scenario.


For Portland, it really doesn't make sense. Neither of those picks are going to be very good, with Westbrook Boston could clean up this year, and the Nets have a few years to build themselves into a playoff team again as well. Lillard isn't getting any younger, so if we trade McCollum for 2 non-lotto picks then we are just wasting Lillard's prime.

[VIPER8382]

The problem I have with this is that we turn one of KD's best buddies and a top 5 player in the league into depth, which is great if you want to be a second round out and not get calls in the playoffs. The only team we have that proves you can build a title-level team without 2 top players is the Pistons, who are an anomaly of anomalies and benefitted from the horrible Shaq/Kobe dynamic (though not taking away from them, that was an excellent team).

This is a pretty nice Thunder team you're making. But you cannot replace a dollar with 4 quarters in basketball—biggest reason being that there's a limit to the number of players you can keep on the court at the same time, which means that individual talents play a disproportionate role as opposed to other sports like soccer and football.

You bring up a lot of good points above, and you may very well be right, but just a couple of more thoughts. First off this trade is not trading a dollar for 4 quarters, it is trading a dollar and some random bits for 4 items worth at least 50 cents each and some different random bits. However unlike US currency, 4 items worth 50 cents may not truly be worth more than one item worth a dollar. In this case I feel like they do bring more overall value, but you obviously disagree, and since you are the Thunder fan, I certainly won't dismiss your opinion, but you still haven't convinced me that the current Thunder are a better team than my version.

Also I would argue that the last team to win the title with 2 top 10 players in the game was the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. The formula to me appears to be having a top 5 player in the league surrounded by a collection of other all star level to top end role player level players in the starting line up and a deep bench with a couple top level role players and a few solid role players. The Warriors have Curry who is obviously #1 in the league right now, but they certainly don't have a 2nd top 10 player in this league, but Green is close and Thompson is another legit all star. The Spurs have not had a top 10 player in the league during their recent championships, and have never had 2, some may argue that the Heat had 3, but I only saw 1, before they all played together they were all top 10, but together I never saw it, Wade had brief flashes, but injuries seemed to relegate him more to all star level, while Bosh's drop was more likely due to a reduction in role. The Mavericks had Dirk, but certainly no 2nd top 10, or even all star running mate. Pau was very good, but certainly not top 10, and then the Pistons you referenced had 0. So by my quick review it looks like a well built team around a single superstar is the way to go to me, but maybe I am missing something. 2 alphas sounds great, but it seems that is much harder to get to work than you would think, and even when it has, it seems to blow up before becoming a true dynasty. Maybe Durant and Westbrook can beat the odds, but so far they haven't proven it to me.

[VIPER8382]

For Portland, it really doesn't make sense. Neither of those picks are going to be very good, with Westbrook Boston could clean up this year, and the Nets have a few years to build themselves into a playoff team again as well. Lillard isn't getting any younger, so if we trade McCollum for 2 non-lotto picks then we are just wasting Lillard's prime.

The Nets are an absolute dumpster fire. They have almost no talent, will only get a single, likely low end draft pick between now and then, and I cannot see much reason for free agents to go there. So with that said, if that 2018 1st isn't top 5 I would be absolutely and utterly shocked.

[bondom34]

The problem I have with this is that we turn one of KD's best buddies and a top 5 player in the league into depth, which is great if you want to be a second round out and not get calls in the playoffs. The only team we have that proves you can build a title-level team without 2 top players is the Pistons, who are an anomaly of anomalies and benefitted from the horrible Shaq/Kobe dynamic (though not taking away from them, that was an excellent team).

This is a pretty nice Thunder team you're making. But you cannot replace a dollar with 4 quarters in basketball—biggest reason being that there's a limit to the number of players you can keep on the court at the same time, which means that individual talents play a disproportionate role as opposed to other sports like soccer and football.

You bring up a lot of good points above, and you may very well be right, but just a couple of more thoughts. First off this trade is not trading a dollar for 4 quarters, it is trading a dollar and some random bits for 4 items worth at least 50 cents each and some different random bits. However unlike US currency, 4 items worth 50 cents may not truly be worth more than one item worth a dollar. In this case I feel like they do bring more overall value, but you obviously disagree, and since you are the Thunder fan, I certainly won't dismiss your opinion, but you still haven't convinced me that the current Thunder are a better team than my version.

Also I would argue that the last team to win the title with 2 top 10 players in the game was the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. The formula to me appears to be having a top 5 player in the league surrounded by a collection of other all star level to top end role player level players in the starting line up and a deep bench with a couple top level role players and a few solid role players. The Warriors have Curry who is obviously #1 in the league right now, but they certainly don't have a 2nd top 10 player in this league, but Green is close and Thompson is another legit all star. The Spurs have not had a top 10 player in the league during their recent championships, and have never had 2, some may argue that the Heat had 3, but I only saw 1, before they all played together they were all top 10, but together I never saw it, Wade had brief flashes, but injuries seemed to relegate him more to all star level, while Bosh's drop was more likely due to a reduction in role. The Mavericks had Dirk, but certainly no 2nd top 10, or even all star running mate. Pau was very good, but certainly not top 10, and then the Pistons you referenced had 0. So by my quick review it looks like a well built team around a single superstar is the way to go to me, but maybe I am missing something. 2 alphas sounds great, but it seems that is much harder to get to work than you would think, and even when it has, it seems to blow up before becoming a true dynasty. Maybe Durant and Westbrook can beat the odds, but so far they haven't proven it to me.

Except none of the guys to OKC are remotely as good as Green or even Thompson, this isn't even a dollar for 4 quarters, its like 10 dimes. And the Heat Big 3 say hello. You can have 5 guys on court at once, and none are remotely near Westbrook. To add, you basically guarantee Durant leaves, so you've killed your future, and you've now got cap space tied up in a bunch of role players with no stars.

[VIPER8382]

Seriously look at all the teams above the Nets in the East, and tell me which ones you think the Nets are going to pass in the next 2 years, and don't even get me started on the West.

[bondom34]

Seriously look at all the teams above the Nets in the East, and tell me which ones you think the Nets are going to pass in the next 2 years, and don't even get me started on the West.

I don't care about the Nets. I care about OKC, and this makes them worse on the court.

[DarkAzcura]

The problem I have with this is that we turn one of KD's best buddies and a top 5 player in the league into depth, which is great if you want to be a second round out and not get calls in the playoffs. The only team we have that proves you can build a title-level team without 2 top players is the Pistons, who are an anomaly of anomalies and benefitted from the horrible Shaq/Kobe dynamic (though not taking away from them, that was an excellent team).

This is a pretty nice Thunder team you're making. But you cannot replace a dollar with 4 quarters in basketball—biggest reason being that there's a limit to the number of players you can keep on the court at the same time, which means that individual talents play a disproportionate role as opposed to other sports like soccer and football.

You bring up a lot of good points above, and you may very well be right, but just a couple of more thoughts. First off this trade is not trading a dollar for 4 quarters, it is trading a dollar and some random bits for 4 items worth at least 50 cents each and some different random bits. However unlike US currency, 4 items worth 50 cents may not truly be worth more than one item worth a dollar. In this case I feel like they do bring more overall value, but you obviously disagree, and since you are the Thunder fan, I certainly won't dismiss your opinion, but you still haven't convinced me that the current Thunder are a better team than my version.

Also I would argue that the last team to win the title with 2 top 10 players in the game was the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. The formula to me appears to be having a top 5 player in the league surrounded by a collection of other all star level to top end role player level players in the starting line up and a deep bench with a couple top level role players and a few solid role players. The Warriors have Curry who is obviously #1 in the league right now, but they certainly don't have a 2nd top 10 player in this league, but Green is close and Thompson is another legit all star. The Spurs have not had a top 10 player in the league during their recent championships, and have never had 2, some may argue that the Heat had 3, but I only saw 1, before they all played together they were all top 10, but together I never saw it, Wade had brief flashes, but injuries seemed to relegate him more to all star level, while Bosh's drop was more likely due to a reduction in role. The Mavericks had Dirk, but certainly no 2nd top 10, or even all star running mate. Pau was very good, but certainly not top 10, and then the Pistons you referenced had 0. So by my quick review it looks like a well built team around a single superstar is the way to go to me, but maybe I am missing something. 2 alphas sounds great, but it seems that is much harder to get to work than you would think, and even when it has, it seems to blow up before becoming a true dynasty. Maybe Durant and Westbrook can beat the odds, but so far they haven't proven it to me.

Except none of the guys to OKC are remotely as good as Green or even Thompson, this isn't even a dollar for 4 quarters, its like 10 dimes. And the Heat Big 3 say hello. You can have 5 guys on court at once, and none are remotely near Westbrook. To add, you basically guarantee Durant leaves, so you've killed your future, and you've now got cap space tied up in a bunch of role players with no stars.

Meh, OKC would actually be a much better team with this roster honestly, and some of you OKC fans really aren't looking at this objectively. As a Boston fan, I honestly don't really want to do this trade (mainly because I am scared of Westbrook walking). The OP has a point, but Durant and Westbrook really are best buds so it is very, very risky in general. A lot of people are really slighting guys like CJ and IT in this thread by calling them mediocre starters or bench players. IT is an all star, and he will probably still average 20 PPG with Durant on his side. IT is a legit top 10 offensive player in the league. Don't sell him short. CJ will probably still get you 15-17 PPG. Olynyk would add a big time floor spacer to your roster. Bradley would give you the defense to actually slow down Curry one on one and also give you a good spot up 3. On the right team, I've always said he could be a better version of Danny Green. Then you even have the BKN pick to add to your team which could be Simmons, Ingram, or Dunn. That's pretty damn good honestly, heh.

Your system in OKC won't work in the playoffs. I've never believed it would. The roster needs to be refreshed somehow and the system needs to be reintegrated for different styled players who could provide better fit and balance than a Durant-Westbrook core ever could.

[bondom34]

You bring up a lot of good points above, and you may very well be right, but just a couple of more thoughts. First off this trade is not trading a dollar for 4 quarters, it is trading a dollar and some random bits for 4 items worth at least 50 cents each and some different random bits. However unlike US currency, 4 items worth 50 cents may not truly be worth more than one item worth a dollar. In this case I feel like they do bring more overall value, but you obviously disagree, and since you are the Thunder fan, I certainly won't dismiss your opinion, but you still haven't convinced me that the current Thunder are a better team than my version.

Also I would argue that the last team to win the title with 2 top 10 players in the game was the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. The formula to me appears to be having a top 5 player in the league surrounded by a collection of other all star level to top end role player level players in the starting line up and a deep bench with a couple top level role players and a few solid role players. The Warriors have Curry who is obviously #1 in the league right now, but they certainly don't have a 2nd top 10 player in this league, but Green is close and Thompson is another legit all star. The Spurs have not had a top 10 player in the league during their recent championships, and have never had 2, some may argue that the Heat had 3, but I only saw 1, before they all played together they were all top 10, but together I never saw it, Wade had brief flashes, but injuries seemed to relegate him more to all star level, while Bosh's drop was more likely due to a reduction in role. The Mavericks had Dirk, but certainly no 2nd top 10, or even all star running mate. Pau was very good, but certainly not top 10, and then the Pistons you referenced had 0. So by my quick review it looks like a well built team around a single superstar is the way to go to me, but maybe I am missing something. 2 alphas sounds great, but it seems that is much harder to get to work than you would think, and even when it has, it seems to blow up before becoming a true dynasty. Maybe Durant and Westbrook can beat the odds, but so far they haven't proven it to me.

Except none of the guys to OKC are remotely as good as Green or even Thompson, this isn't even a dollar for 4 quarters, its like 10 dimes. And the Heat Big 3 say hello. You can have 5 guys on court at once, and none are remotely near Westbrook. To add, you basically guarantee Durant leaves, so you've killed your future, and you've now got cap space tied up in a bunch of role players with no stars.

Meh, OKC would actually be a much better team with this roster honestly, and some of you OKC fans really aren't looking at this objectively. As a Boston fan, I honestly don't really want to do this trade. The OP has a point, but Durant and Westbrook really are best buds so it is very, very risky in general. A lot of people are really slighting guys like CJ and IT in this thread by calling them mediocre starters or bench players. IT is an all star, and he will probably still average 20 PPG with Durant his side. CJ will probably still get you 15-17 PPG. Olynyk would add a big time floor spacer to your roster. Bradley would give you the defense to actually slow down Curry one on one. Then you even have the BKN pick to add to your team which could be Simmons, Ingram, or Dunn. That's pretty damn good honestly, heh.

Westbrook has, for all intents and purposes, had an MVP caliber season, better than Durant. The pick to OKC right now is meaningless (sorry but it is), IT is an all star, swell, but he's not a third of Westbrook, and CJ is an excellent SG who would fit perfectly if they had an elite PG already which in this case they wouldn't. They'd be basically the Celtics in the West with a lot of middling talent plus Durant. Still not at GSW's level, down a star, and no way to get one until Durant is well past his prime. This is an incredibly easy pass.

[bondom34]

Your system in OKC won't work in the playoffs. I've never believed it would. The roster needs to be refreshed somehow and the system needs to be reintegrated for different styled players who could provide better fit and balance than a Durant-Westbrook core ever could.

That core has been to the conference finals every year they've been healthy.

[VIPER8382]

Upon further review it would be best to instead turn the pick and possibly one of the other players into one better option that can help them win this year and moving forward.

[bondom34]

Upon further review it would be best to instead turn the pick and possibly one of the other players into one better option that can help them win this year and moving forward.

Exactly.

Like Westbrook.