Rank their value: Point Guards

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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#21 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:09 pm

weekend_warrior wrote:I think that a maximum of 5 points (and only integer values) is not enough to represent the differences sufficiently, especially in performances compared to peers. I do agree on the order of your list for the most part though.


I was thinking the same thing. This is most easily seen by him having 3 players tied with Curry which of course isn't accurate at all.

Needs a much larger scale to be of any value, but more importantly player's value isn't determined in this manner. You can be fairly one-dimensional and still be much more valuable than another player who would score higher on a chart like this. It's really not achieving what the OP hopes.

And finally people are not being very objective about their own PG's here.
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#22 » by Laimbeer » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:11 pm

You are really underestimating contract length. Westbrook is a glaring example. I'd have him well down the list in terms of trade value since he only has a year to run.
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#23 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:11 pm

DerrickNoah wrote:I understand the haters and trolls still need to see more before complimenting Rose but sometimes you have to actually watch guys play, rather than just googling stats




cmon now, you know timmay is neither one of those. And he's hardly alone in thinking Rose is one of the worst starting PG's in the league. Not to mention the contract and the missed games.

And while Timmay didn't go into a lot of the other drama that comes with Rose, in terms of value its certainly part of the story.
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#24 » by DerrickNoah » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:17 pm

Kupchak9 wrote:
DerrickNoah wrote:That double vision caused Rose to statistically be the worst shooter in the league in 2015. He shot 37% from the field in October and 35% in November. Plus, Derrick has never been a very stat friendly player, even in his MVP season. His play & shooting % has been much improved since Christmas break... I understand the haters and trolls still need to see more before complimenting Rose but sometimes you have to actually watch guys play, rather than just googling stats

Rose scoring stats
2016........PPG / FG%
January....17.6 / .471%
February...21.9 / .439%
March......18.4 / .497%

He actually shot 46% in march

My bad. I believe the article I pulled that from was dated March 27 . Thx
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PG: Ja Morant / Ajay Mitchell / R.Nembhard
SG: Coby White / Kon Knueppel / Sion James
SF: Keegan Murray / Tristan da Silva / M.Peavy
PF: Matas Buzelis / Noah Clowney / C.Martin
C: Evan Mobley / Quentin Post / Luka Garza
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#25 » by Lovetron Joe » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:18 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:I have MCW worth a top 5 pick.


Excellent.

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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#26 » by DerrickNoah » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:59 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
DerrickNoah wrote:I understand the haters and trolls still need to see more before complimenting Rose but sometimes you have to actually watch guys play, rather than just googling stats




cmon now, you know timmay is neither one of those. And he's hardly alone in thinking Rose is one of the worst starting PG's in the league. Not to mention the contract and the missed games.

And while Timmay didn't go into a lot of the other drama that comes with Rose, in terms of value its certainly part of the story.

I wasn't talkin about Timmay personally. We are totally Cool.

The point that I am making, is that the first couple months completely destroyed his shooting percentages for the entire season. Many "stat boys" are looking at the overall season % and labeling him as "terrible" or "negative", without really watching him play.

Rose will never be an elite shooter, but if you look at thee 2015 & 2016 campaigns as two different seasons, then you will see the much improved play. He started the season as the worst shooter in the league(blurry vision). He is now putting-up average numbers for a non-shooting PG.

Sorry for being so defensive, but watching him continuously attack the rim these last few months has been one of the few bright spots for this very sad & disappointed Bulls fan.
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PG: Ja Morant / Ajay Mitchell / R.Nembhard
SG: Coby White / Kon Knueppel / Sion James
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#27 » by LightTheBeam » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:25 pm

pelifan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
pelifan wrote:
pg is a stacked position. No way DC is top 15. He may not even be top 30.


I am talking about actual worth not value. So maybe I was off here. As far as actual rank on the court I have.

Tier 1
Curry
Westbrook
Paul
Lillard
Wall

Tier 2
Conley
Lowry
Walker
Irving
Thomas

Tier 3
Reggie Jackson
Teague
Dragic
Holiday
Collison

He has the 2nd highest true shooting percentage of any point guard in the league behind Curry and ranks pretty nicely in most advanced stats that say hes around the 15 or 16 best. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORPe

Again by my own estimation that puts him at 15 exactly. I personally would take him over Knight, Rose, Rondo, Rubio, Parker, Deron. I could see why you may not but I like the way he plays. Has an excellent midrange game, he is lightening quick, good passer. Hes averaging 14/5 with 49% shooting and 40% from 3's. He can start or come off the bench and is a great teamate. Not to mention he only makes 5 million next year and is still 28. He has been the Kings second best player this year which I know isn't saying much but we had our best season in years with a team who has given up the last month of the season.


Well you certainly made a good argument. He's definitely a top 30 pg in ability (not trade value), probably around 20, 25... I always liked DC but his best season in the league was his rookie season. He leaves a lot to be desired defensively and hasn't shown anything near the level passing needed to run a team effectively since that season.


That's the thing though. How many teams need a ball stopping point guard like Rubio or Rondo, ya they pass great but the shooting is terrible and they hold onto the ball.

I think for a team like the kings who already have Cousins and Gay who take up a ton of touches a game, having a Collison is much better than Rondo because rondo just prevents the offense from flowing. In today's NBA we see the Warriors a team that has multiple ball handlers sometimes as many as 4 or 5 on the floor at once. Curry is a very good passer but he isn't a CP3, Rondo, Rubio type and that's fine, I don't think many of the best pgs are those types of players anymore.

Just curious you say top 20 or 25? What 5-10 other point guards would you rather have for the Pelicans as far as this season to win not for future obviously.
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#28 » by Kupchak9 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:27 am

Guys like Curry and Westbrook deserve more than a 5 on performance and I've stated that as a disclaimer when I posted this thread. I just kept them as a 5 to stick within the parameters of the scoring system.

Also, I wanted to stick with integers because I believed decimals may add an even more arbitrary dimension to this analysis. Its difficult to differentiate why this player would deserve a 3 and why this one a 3.5. Why not just round to the nearest level. If you feel like that's a necessary component to add then feel free to do it when ranking the point guards yourselves.
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#29 » by nevetsov » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:55 am

So pretty much everyone gets either a 4 or 5 for age? Perhaps adjust the scale criteria to utilise the whole range?

5=18-22
4=23-26
3=27-30
2=31-33
1=34+

Or something like that.
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#30 » by Kupchak9 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:38 am

Made some adjustments based on your recommendations
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Re: Rank their value: Point Guards 

Post#31 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:32 am

Still think Rondo and Rose are too high. Neither are really good, and probably the worst of the guys listed.
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