Bledsoe to Kings

Moderators: Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers

User avatar
Kings2013
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,829
And1: 932
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
Location: The beautiful capital of California

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#21 » by Kings2013 » Wed Jun 1, 2016 5:43 pm

patman52 wrote:
Kings2013 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Nope.

We might be open to Knight for #8. MIGHT. But its a big hell no on Bledsoe.

Suns would rather try to obtain Cousins to pair with Bledsoe. Maybe something like #4/#13/Len/Knight/2021 Miami 1st. Maybe even take on Gay if need be.


I think you mean the 13/Knight would be for Gay (which I wouldn't do). Gay is still a top ten SF


Why not? do you think Gay stays in Sac in 2017? I certainly don't. Gay as an expiring is worth a bottom 1st. Knight is signed for 4 years at 14 mill. The value between 8 and 13 is negligible this year. But the suns don't need another SF they need a PF. While knight may not be a pure point, he is locked up for 4 years and if the kings don't want to bottom out (the should IMO) This is a nice trade.


The whole "not staying in Sac" thing is borderline insulting. It's a great location, fanbase, we're better than our record and he likes it here.
LightTheBeam
RealGM
Posts: 18,965
And1: 12,091
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#22 » by LightTheBeam » Wed Jun 1, 2016 5:50 pm

Kings2013 wrote:
patman52 wrote:
Kings2013 wrote:
I think you mean the 13/Knight would be for Gay (which I wouldn't do). Gay is still a top ten SF


Why not? do you think Gay stays in Sac in 2017? I certainly don't. Gay as an expiring is worth a bottom 1st. Knight is signed for 4 years at 14 mill. The value between 8 and 13 is negligible this year. But the suns don't need another SF they need a PF. While knight may not be a pure point, he is locked up for 4 years and if the kings don't want to bottom out (the should IMO) This is a nice trade.


The whole "not staying in Sac" thing is borderline insulting. It's a great location, fanbase, we're better than our record and he likes it here.


Regardless the whole rental thing is overblown. where are all these free agents wanting to sign? Every team thinks that if they trade for a guy with 1 year left it means they are a rental. I've specially heard that poster mention that about Gay multiple times. If you trade for a guy and put him in a good situation then pay him what he's worth why wouldn't he want to resign?

I think a rental is a player you know you don't want to pay so you bring him in at a cheap cost to help you compete that year all the while knowing you have no interest in resigning them.
User avatar
Kerrsed
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 29,876
And1: 16,578
Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Location: Land of the Internet Memes
Contact:
     

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#23 » by Kerrsed » Wed Jun 1, 2016 6:17 pm

I still stand by my post. The Kings would be lucky to receive a 24 year old putting up 20/5/4 on a good contract for #8.
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
Image
User avatar
Geaux_Hawks
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,473
And1: 1,154
Joined: Feb 18, 2011
     

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#24 » by Geaux_Hawks » Wed Jun 1, 2016 6:33 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Kings2013 wrote:
patman52 wrote:
Why not? do you think Gay stays in Sac in 2017? I certainly don't. Gay as an expiring is worth a bottom 1st. Knight is signed for 4 years at 14 mill. The value between 8 and 13 is negligible this year. But the suns don't need another SF they need a PF. While knight may not be a pure point, he is locked up for 4 years and if the kings don't want to bottom out (the should IMO) This is a nice trade.


The whole "not staying in Sac" thing is borderline insulting. It's a great location, fanbase, we're better than our record and he likes it here.


Regardless the whole rental thing is overblown. where are all these free agents wanting to sign? Every team thinks that if they trade for a guy with 1 year left it means they are a rental. I've specially heard that poster mention that about Gay multiple times. If you trade for a guy and put him in a good situation then pay him what he's worth why wouldn't he want to resign?

I think a rental is a player you know you don't want to pay so you bring him in at a cheap cost to help you compete that year all the while knowing you have no interest in resigning them.

Thank you!! Posters delve to far into a guy being only a rental. Present a guy with an opportunity to play, win, and get paid and he'll stick around unless there is a way better place for him to go. This isn't baseball, where the teams with money on the open market can swoop every guy up.
jredsaz
General Manager
Posts: 8,898
And1: 3,151
Joined: May 25, 2012
         

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#25 » by jredsaz » Wed Jun 1, 2016 6:36 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I think as far as rebuilding teams they don't come close to the top. top teams with rebuilding assets being Philly/Boston/Minnesota/Bucks/Utah/Lakers who all dwarf Phx in top assets and many other teams who are higher as well. I think most people understand Cousins value is much higher than that offer. We would be expecting the #1 or #2 overall and then another top level prospect.

Thats fantastic you think so, I suggest you hold onto him. As I said a guy who can't stay healthy and has 2 knee surgeries in the last 3 years is really not worth that much. I have no interest in an injured player, and I see why you don't want to make the trade but to act like his value is significantly higher than #8 is insane, it just isn't he is not a superstar, he has never even made an allstar team. Eric Gordon also had a ton of value, now I am not sure if he gets more than 6 million per year. Bledsoe is a year away from being in that territory..

As I have said a million times, I've liked Bledsoe since his days in LA he was always one of my favorite players to watch, I will root for him to get healthy but until he does I don't understand how you can expect some huge ransom. If another team wants to overpay for that gamble so be it, but I don't see the value. I am not arguing with you, hold onto him let him get healthy and regain his value it would be stupid to trade him right now when his value is at an alltime low and his career is in question. Injury prone players coming off serious Knee injuries never get that kind of value it just doesn't happen.


Dwarf? Lol. In the end, does Minnesota have better "assets" than the Suns? Sure, if you count Wiggins and KAT. But they would not trade those assets for a guy like Boogie or essentially anyone. Milwaukee? You're going to have to explain that one because the Greek isn't going anywhere. When considering actual moveable, acquirable assets Suns are easily top five.

As for Bledsoe, as I said before, people under value him here and over value him on the Suns forum. Odds are Knight is the odd man out if the Suns are making a move involving someone from our backcourt.


Movable? What defines movable? every player is movable for the right asset. It doesn't sound like the Suns want to move Booker does than mean he doesn't count as an asset?

The problem is that if Bledsoe is healthy you shouldn't move him for 8th and if he isn't then the other team shouldn't trade for him. I will just say if you are expecting to get the level of asset you traded to get Knight back in a Knight trade, you should really temper your expectations.


Moveable can be defined as attainable. KAT isn't attainable. The Greek isn't attainable. Hypothetically the Warriors have the best assets in the NBA but they aren't trading for Steph or Klay. Your evaluation of the Suns assets was just a shot per usual.

I don't expect that Knight will get back the equivalent of the Lakers pick, Enis, and Plumlee but he can be used as an asset in a larger deal or in order to move up in the draft.
patman52
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,712
And1: 848
Joined: Jan 03, 2016
 

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#26 » by patman52 » Wed Jun 1, 2016 6:48 pm

Look, if you think Gay does not opt out next year, fine. If you think that he won't get 4 year and 50mill fine. He will use his opt out to get paid over 12 mill when he is 34 years old. If the kings are ok to do that fine. He won't use FA to get what is fair, he will use FA to get what he can, as he should. And like Geaux-hawks said, unless he gets a better place to play. No one thinks the kings are ging to be a contender over the next couple of years, so please tell me why he will stay either with Phx or the kings or any team unless they are ready to pay him more than any other team. If you are not, he is a rental.
LightTheBeam
RealGM
Posts: 18,965
And1: 12,091
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#27 » by LightTheBeam » Wed Jun 1, 2016 7:29 pm

jredsaz wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Dwarf? Lol. In the end, does Minnesota have better "assets" than the Suns? Sure, if you count Wiggins and KAT. But they would not trade those assets for a guy like Boogie or essentially anyone. Milwaukee? You're going to have to explain that one because the Greek isn't going anywhere. When considering actual moveable, acquirable assets Suns are easily top five.

As for Bledsoe, as I said before, people under value him here and over value him on the Suns forum. Odds are Knight is the odd man out if the Suns are making a move involving someone from our backcourt.


Movable? What defines movable? every player is movable for the right asset. It doesn't sound like the Suns want to move Booker does than mean he doesn't count as an asset?

The problem is that if Bledsoe is healthy you shouldn't move him for 8th and if he isn't then the other team shouldn't trade for him. I will just say if you are expecting to get the level of asset you traded to get Knight back in a Knight trade, you should really temper your expectations.


Moveable can be defined as attainable. KAT isn't attainable. The Greek isn't attainable. Hypothetically the Warriors have the best assets in the NBA but they aren't trading for Steph or Klay. Your evaluation of the Suns assets was just a shot per usual.

I don't expect that Knight will get back the equivalent of the Lakers pick, Enis, and Plumlee but he can be used as an asset in a larger deal or in order to move up in the draft.


I beg to differ. Who decides which players are attainable? Realgm? You? Me? I would be very shocked if the Bucks turned down Greek for Lebron or Curry. If that is the case all indications say we aren't trading Cousins and Joerger and Vlade both said he isn't being traded. Does that make him unattainable?

Why are you spinning this as though I have some hate or dislike for the Suns? I am just saying how I see it, if you don't agree that is fine.

Booker - worth the #3 pick
#4 pick
#13
Len

Those are what I see as your main assets. Tucker could probably fetch you a mid-late 1st round pick. I think Knight is not an asset. He is paid 12 million dollars and is better suited as a Jamal Crawford type off the bench. Those guys could be had for 5-7 million dollars so if you want to convince me that Knight is that much better go ahead I just don't agree. Chandler is on his last leg and paid over 10 million per year that is not an asset. Bledsoe is often injured, if he was healthy I would say hold off for a top 5 pick. As is with his multiple knee injuries and questionable future I just wouldn't trade him because as I said you won't be happy with the return.

Look what Vince Carter got when he was traded from the Raptors when he was considered Injury prone. Vince was only 2 years older than Bledsoe but on another level as far as a player. He didn't get anything. Teams just do not want to pay a premium price for a guy who is often injured, I don't think its "taking a shot at the Suns" I think it's an easy concept to understand.
User avatar
Kings2013
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,829
And1: 932
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
Location: The beautiful capital of California

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#28 » by Kings2013 » Wed Jun 1, 2016 7:42 pm

Kerrsed wrote:I still stand by my post. The Kings would be lucky to receive a 24 year old putting up 20/5/4 on a good contract for #8.


Kings wouldn't do that. Not a fit around Cousins/Gay/WCS. Need someone spacing off the ball, and Knights defense leaves something to be desired.

The Suns would be lucky to clear their log jam with that IMO.

Bledsoe is arguable for both sides
teerfour+40LG
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,468
And1: 2,129
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
 

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#29 » by teerfour+40LG » Wed Jun 1, 2016 8:14 pm

I'd rather have Rondo then Bledsoe. The reason is assist to turnover ratio. Both average the same amount of turnovers per 100 possessions, but Rondo racks up 2x more assists than Bledsoe.
jredsaz
General Manager
Posts: 8,898
And1: 3,151
Joined: May 25, 2012
         

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#30 » by jredsaz » Wed Jun 1, 2016 9:23 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Movable? What defines movable? every player is movable for the right asset. It doesn't sound like the Suns want to move Booker does than mean he doesn't count as an asset?

The problem is that if Bledsoe is healthy you shouldn't move him for 8th and if he isn't then the other team shouldn't trade for him. I will just say if you are expecting to get the level of asset you traded to get Knight back in a Knight trade, you should really temper your expectations.


Moveable can be defined as attainable. KAT isn't attainable. The Greek isn't attainable. Hypothetically the Warriors have the best assets in the NBA but they aren't trading for Steph or Klay. Your evaluation of the Suns assets was just a shot per usual.

I don't expect that Knight will get back the equivalent of the Lakers pick, Enis, and Plumlee but he can be used as an asset in a larger deal or in order to move up in the draft.


I beg to differ. Who decides which players are attainable? Realgm? You? Me? I would be very shocked if the Bucks turned down Greek for Lebron or Curry. If that is the case all indications say we aren't trading Cousins and Joerger and Vlade both said he isn't being traded. Does that make him unattainable?

Why are you spinning this as though I have some hate or dislike for the Suns? I am just saying how I see it, if you don't agree that is fine.

Booker - worth the #3 pick
#4 pick
#13
Len

Those are what I see as your main assets. Tucker could probably fetch you a mid-late 1st round pick. I think Knight is not an asset. He is paid 12 million dollars and is better suited as a Jamal Crawford type off the bench. Those guys could be had for 5-7 million dollars so if you want to convince me that Knight is that much better go ahead I just don't agree. Chandler is on his last leg and paid over 10 million per year that is not an asset. Bledsoe is often injured, if he was healthy I would say hold off for a top 5 pick. As is with his multiple knee injuries and questionable future I just wouldn't trade him because as I said you won't be happy with the return.

Look what Vince Carter got when he was traded from the Raptors when he was considered Injury prone. Vince was only 2 years older than Bledsoe but on another level as far as a player. He didn't get anything. Teams just do not want to pay a premium price for a guy who is often injured, I don't think its "taking a shot at the Suns" I think it's an easy concept to understand.


Forgot about Warren, Goodwin, and the future picks including two from Miami. As for Knight, his contract is reasonable from here on out. Signing a guy like that for $5 to $7 million is pre-television contract thinking.

The Vince Carter trade is literally one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history AND they still got two first round picks out of the deal AND is totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
User avatar
City of Trees
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 15,851
And1: 5,511
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
Location: Roseville, CA
   

Re: Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#31 » by City of Trees » Wed Jun 1, 2016 10:26 pm

teerfour+40LG wrote:I'd rather have Rondo then Bledsoe. The reason is assist to turnover ratio. Both average the same amount of turnovers per 100 possessions, but Rondo racks up 2x more assists than Bledsoe.

I can't imagine a lot of people sharing this opinion. For me it's Bledsoe over Rondo Everytime.

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk
Barkley_34
Junior
Posts: 465
And1: 174
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
       

Re: Bledsoe to Kings 

Post#32 » by Barkley_34 » Wed Jun 1, 2016 11:14 pm

This offer is not even close to Bledsoe value in my opinion. Honestly, a player was doing 20 ppg and 5 rpg 6 apg with great fg, besides being a point guard with elite defense. If it was the Knight, i think there could be a trade

Return to Trades and Transactions