Phoenix early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Slava/bwgood77)

[HartfordWhalers]

A lot of disrespect for the Kings on that draft day trade particularly from Slava and dbrandon. Bogdanovic is a talented player who many consider one of the best in Europe and Skal is talented as well and was rated higher for most of last year by most pundits. Chriss has gifts but isnt a certain quantity. It can go either way at this stage

Although with Phoenix's assets, and Booker at the two they can afford to make such a trade if they like Chriss. I'm skeptical of Watson. Still a team with a lot of young talent that should be fun to watch

B+

I think both teams did well with the trade. Getting Skal that late was huge. Not sure I would have gone with the guy at 13 but who knows? They certainly got a good haul and if they were not enamored with anyone at 8 it was the right move for the Kings.

+1 brother. Unfortunately because of our teams reputation, it becomes customary to not see our point of view or assume we automatically lose trades.

I dunno, in my experience here that seems a lot more like a whiny complaint used to justify anything Sacramento does from any criticism regardless of how valid.

[Kings2013]

I think both teams did well with the trade. Getting Skal that late was huge. Not sure I would have gone with the guy at 13 but who knows? They certainly got a good haul and if they were not enamored with anyone at 8 it was the right move for the Kings.

+1 brother. Unfortunately because of our teams reputation, it becomes customary to not see our point of view or assume we automatically lose trades.

I dunno, in my experience here that seems a lot more like a whiny complaint used to justify anything Sacramento does from any criticism regardless of how valid.

Not really. I'm not referring to past trades although those have maybe shaped narrative. It's just how I feel

If the Lakers or even a team like the Nuggets made that trade I think I'd see more balance in terms of media reaction etc. And your view was unbiased, and appreciated Bogdanovic and Skal falling. A lot of others don't

[HartfordWhalers]

+1 brother. Unfortunately because of our teams reputation, it becomes customary to not see our point of view or assume we automatically lose trades.

I dunno, in my experience here that seems a lot more like a whiny complaint used to justify anything Sacramento does from any criticism regardless of how valid.

Not really. I'm not referring to past trades although those have maybe shaped narrative. It's just how I feel

If the Lakers or even a team like the Nuggets made that trade I think I'd see more balance in terms of media reaction etc. And your view was unbiased, and appreciated Bogdanovic and Skal falling. A lot of others don't

Okay, help me out on past trades that have unfairly been viewed anti-Kings before this because of the Kings rep?

[Slava]

If you'd like to point to skal being projected a lottery pick as evidence of supporting that trade, i can point to no one projecting Papagiannis that high against it and Sacramento is the last team that needed two centers from the draft.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, Papa was taken far higher than projected, but if he was their guy, who knows what he will end up being? They don't have the best track record in drafts in recent years but most teams have hits and misses. They do seem to have way too many centers but perhaps they are setting themselves up in case they do want or need to trade Boogie and want to have a Papa, WCS, Skal frontcourt rotation. Of course they still have Koufos too.

I think it was great that Phoenix got Chriss because of their need for a PF, and Bender being kind of a risky pick (as is Chriss) but hopefully one of them pans out but I wouldn't necessarily say they clearly won the trade. The draft was super deep. Sac could have also take Dejounte Murray there, which maybe they should have given their PG needs, and glut of bigs, but Skal was probably hard to pass up.

[bigfoot]

The Chriss / Bogdanovic trade, although the jury is out for a few years in terms of who won, was really was a necessity for the Suns. Booker is the future for the Suns at SG which is the same position played by Bogdanovic. Right now Booker is being touted as the next star player by other coaches, star players, and the media. Sure It is possible one of the two could slide to SF but both would be considered undersized. Phoenix made the trade for #8 to help clear some the massive logjam at SG (Booker, Knight, Goodwin, Bogdanovic, Jenkins) and to give them two shots at landing another star player to fill either the SF or PF spot. If both Bender and Chriss pan out wow, but we certainly need one of them to step up. Chriss is very intriguing in that he only started playing organized basketball as a high school freshman and almost missed the cut. His athleticism and work ethic saved him but I suspect that his IQ was high enough to quickly grasp the offensive and defensive schemes required to play college basketball. Let's hope it is high enough to make the transition to the NBA.

[NavLDO]

#13,#28, and Bogdanovic for #8, to me, is a win for SAC. The fact that Sac took Papagiannis, to me, is irrelevant; as is the Suns taking of Chriss and Sac taking Skal. But if that's how fans would prefer to see to the trade--Papagiannis, Skal, Bogdanovic for Chriss, then yeah, Sac wins there, too.

As was mentioned, we had a glut of SGs, and after hearing that Bogdanovic wasn't coming over...again...we basically traded what looks to me like will be quite a high contract for Bogs next year:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/6/22/12010242/phoenix-suns-get-confirmation-no-bogdan-bogdanovic-for-at-least-a-year

So for the Suns this year, they essentially traded Papagiannis and Skal for Chriss, and I'm ok with that. And right now, that's a good trade for us, since we didn't 'need' 4 new rookies, and we wanted to draft 2 of the 4-5 'Tier 2' players (Bender, Chriss, Dunn, Hield, Murray), rather than 1, followed by someone outside that 'Tier 2' group. So while the Suns may have given up more value overall, IMO, they made the right call and took that 'leap of faith' on Chriss. This is the time for the Suns to make that kind of gamble.

But yes, Sac ultimately, likely, received more value in the trade when looking at it in a vacuum.

[HartfordWhalers]

This might be the largest disparity in win projections that I've seen. Anywhere from 26 for HW to 38 for me.

Anyone want to sig bet?

Sacrmamento edged this discrepancy out!

[Karmaloop]

Like what the Suns did, but I think the 30+ wins is a tad optimistic. With the exception of Kristaps Porzingis, international players really haven't translated super well in their rookie season (without more seasoning abroad) so while I do like what Bender brings to the table I really don't see him pushing the needle one way or the other. Similarly, Chriss is talented but raw so expecting a ton out of him might be too much. For me, their core features two players (Bledsoe and Chandler) with length injury histories, so expecting them to hold up over the course of the season might be a tad optimistic. I'd anticipate about 25 wins.

[Mich3006]

If the Suns find a way to dumb Knight and/or Chandler (together with Tucker) for solid picks or talent I´d give them a B, otherwise it´s a C because they´re on a very high payroll for 15+ wins this season

[Texas Chuck]

If the Suns find a way to dumb Knight and/or Chandler (together with Tucker) for solid picks or talent I´d give them a B, otherwise it´s a C because they´re on a very high payroll for 15+ wins this season

Uh according to Smitty's cap sheets the Suns are less than $4M above the salary floor. Their payroll isn't remotely out of whack.

[gaspar]

If the Suns find a way to dumb Knight and/or Chandler (together with Tucker) for solid picks or talent I´d give them a B, otherwise it´s a C because they´re on a very high payroll for 15+ wins this season

Uh according to Smitty's cap sheets the Suns are less than $4M above the salary floor. Their payroll isn't remotely out of whack.

Actually the Suns are about $4M BELOW the salary floor.

[Mich3006]

If the Suns find a way to dumb Knight and/or Chandler (together with Tucker) for solid picks or talent I´d give them a B, otherwise it´s a C because they´re on a very high payroll for 15+ wins this season

Uh according to Smitty's cap sheets the Suns are less than $4M above the salary floor. Their payroll isn't remotely out of whack.

Actually the Suns are about $4M BELOW the salary floor.

Their cap situation in general looks solid. I only want to point out that they´re paying big $ for players that won´t do anything. The Sixers were/are bad but they at least their players are on cheap contracts...

[mikestar]

Grade A long term. Love the young talent.

[Mystical Apples]

Drafting Bender and Ulis was pretty slick. Bender probably should've gone 3rd and Ulis was top 20-25 value. Those picks plus landing the perpetually under-appreciated Dudley was A-worthy, borderline A+ when factoring excess value for Tucker and Knight. The unbalanced trade and subsequent selection of Chriss...ughh...not so much.

Phoenix also failed to address the glaring long-term issue at center. Clearly Chandler isn't the answer and I'd bet against Len, too. At minimum a cheapish 4/5 veteran with ball skills would go a long way.

Overall B-

[bwgood77]

Had to put this somewhere other than Suns forum because I thought it was pretty funny.

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[Andre Roberstan]

Had to put this somewhere other than Suns forum because I thought it was pretty funny.

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I've talked a little with Dudley on Twitter. He's pretty great.

Though I'm a huge Russ fan, it's nice to see a guy with the self-awareness to talk with the press about what they're seeing too.

[bwgood77]

I've talked a little with Dudley on Twitter. He's pretty great.

Though I'm a huge Russ fan, it's nice to see a guy with the self-awareness to talk with the press about what they're seeing too.

Yeah, he's just a great guy for the fan base. It was actually a genius move to bring him back. For the fans, the locker room to lighten up people and mentor them (Barbosa will help with this too to some extent), to replace Tucker as the heart of the team, and just the whole media thing.

[Clevelander]

I am very interested to see how Bender and Chriss both do! What kind of stat lines do you guys see them putting up in their rookie season?

[bwgood77]

I am very interested to see how Bender and Chriss both do! What kind of stat lines do you guys see them putting up in their rookie season?

I have no idea how much they will even play. They are both extremely young and not really nba ready. I think Bender can probably get more minutes simply because of how quick he is, especially with his ability to defend the perimeter, run the floor and handle the ball. He is too skinny to play much inside so they have talked that he will play some at the 3 (as well as small ball 4) because he is more comfortable on the perimeter.

Chriss currently is probably more of a strictly garbage time player but he will be a great finisher for lobs from Bledsoe/Ulis/Booker and Knight (if he ever learns how to properly do this) and can shoot 3s, but his defense is going to need A LOT of work.

I think they both barely play the first half of the season and then Bender plays a bit after that and Chriss probably extremely limited minutes.

As far as stat lines go, Bender can probably eventually do a little bit of everything. He will have assists, blocks, 3s, etc, and Chriss can also get 3s and blocks. They both are not great rebounders though and get into foul trouble easily.