Sacramento early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Slava)

[Andre Roberstan]

Lol. I'm not reading because I know that might be the majority position and my nerves can't take a thread of it. Regular season starts soon though, proof will be in pudding.

So you refuse to read the offseason grades because of the disrespect to Collison (which exists nowhere in the body of the review, any of them, so far as I can see). In fact, Bondom34 and I were relatively complimentary of the offseason overall.

You're not arguing with HartfordWhalers, you're arguing with a Pete D'Alessandro-shaped strawman wearing a "Hinkie Died for our Sins" T-shirt.

[blind prophet]

Just read HW not respecting Collison, and that's as far as the eyes will read

Collison was designated to be the starter of this team because the team had an outstanding statistical unit with him, and he fits perfectly the spacing, ball movement and full court pressure we need at the position.

I'll give it a B, and get into it when I have more time. But won't read more

Ctrl-F Collison in HW's post:

Depth charts. That's it. The eyes are safe, they can read farther.

Collison is solid. But is he going to play 48 minutes a game, and is he going to do it if he's in jail? Or is Afflalo going to run the point?

I agree, they need another body

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

[nomansland]

I went with C- and the only reason it's that high is because of the coaching change.

If I were a Kings fan I'd be pretty upset with what they did in the draft and none of those FA acquisitions is impressive.

[HartfordWhalers]

The something IMO won't be a starter. They may need another body there, but there is a reason it wasn't a point of emphasis this off season

So, playing along and keeping in mind that you might not read this and either way might not actually respond to its content versus some perceived content, how did I disrespect Collison again to the point that you stopped reading for fear of what I might have said?

This is too funny.

Lol. I'm not reading because I know that might be the majority position and my nerves can't take a thread of it. Regular season starts soon though, proof will be in pudding.

Well, if you aren't reading them at all for that reason, then would it be too much to not blame that on me saying things I didn't? ("Just read HW not respecting Collison")

[Andre Roberstan]

Ctrl-F Collison in HW's post:

Depth charts. That's it. The eyes are safe, they can read farther.

Collison is solid. But is he going to play 48 minutes a game, and is he going to do it if he's in jail? Or is Afflalo going to run the point?

I agree, they need another body

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

Taking a flier on Lawson would be worth it. Or trading for a 2nd or 3rd-stringer from a team that has a bunch of guards. BMac's fairly expendable and some team in need of SG help might be willing to take a flier on him.

[Karmaloop]

I'd argue that the biggest thing the Kings need to do at this point is stabilize their public image, both in the eyes of the general public and around the league. We talk about FA signings as if they occur in a vacuum, but it may well be that Divac talked to other guys and Temple/Tolliver/Barnes et al were the guys who wanted to come.

And I'm not disagreeing with that part. The part I'm having issue with it is I really don't think they managed to do that. For me, there was one of two directions to go. Either they overpay for the "right" veteran FA similar to what the Lakers did OR opt to overpay in terms of 1 year deals. I mean, look at guys like Jeff Green. He signed a 1 year deal. You mean to tell me you throw a few more million at him, and promise him a semi-significant role he wouldn't opt for that? To me, their FA spending seems to be spending for the sake of spending. There's no direction, and for me none of those FA signings really don't stabilize the franchise IMO.

[codydaze]

Tolliver was teammate of the year in the player union last year

So was Landry!!!

tl/dr: This offseason was about stabilizing the image and setting up for next offseason's moves.

For stabilizing, having any experienced backup pg would help. For setting up next years moves, I'm not a fan of Temple and Barnes (PO) still on the books (or Tolliver's partial gtd).

I threw out examples of what I would have considered better stabilizing one year options in my review, would be curious what you agree and disagree with.

I think Temple is a better get than Jeff Green would have been. Temple is versatile in an area we need it more (capable of 1-3) while Green is more of a 3/4 where we already have Casspi and Gay that are the same way. Henderson would have been OK but I'm not a fan of Sergio, I just don't think he's that good even though we need a PG.

We absolutely need another PG and I don't doubt that we'll address that before opening night, we'll just have to wait and see who it is. Tolliver's partially guaranteed deal isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. 2 million isn't going to cripple us so I don't see how that's much of a problem. The roster isn't perfect and that was a point I made, there's work to do there, I was talking about stabilizing the image which I think we've moved in the right direction to address. Would you agree with that?

[HartfordWhalers]

I agree, they need another body

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

Taking a flier on Lawson would be worth it. Or trading for a 2nd or 3rd-stringer from a team that has a bunch of guards. BMac's fairly expendable and some team in need of SG help might be willing to take a flier on him.

Lawson has too much baggage for him to be worth it imo. And yes, I said I would have offered a 6m 1 year deal to Waiters.

Kendall Marshall gets cut in under 10 days. He should be available for the min. Also, depending roster spots I would sign Mario Chalmers right now and if he comes back in March he comes back in March.

Unless Koufos or Gay get traded before the season starts, the backup pg spot is going to take Lamar Patterson's spot. To have Chalmers as a third stringer would require an extra body cut.

[blind prophet]

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

Taking a flier on Lawson would be worth it. Or trading for a 2nd or 3rd-stringer from a team that has a bunch of guards. BMac's fairly expendable and some team in need of SG help might be willing to take a flier on him.

Lawson has too much baggage for him to be worth it imo. And yes, I said I would have offered a 6m 1 year deal to Waiters.

Kendall Marshall gets cut in under 10 days. He should be available for the min. Also, depending roster spots I would sign Mario Chalmers right now and if he comes back in March he comes back in March.

Unless Koufos or Gay get traded before the season starts, the backup pg spot is going to take Lamar Patterson's spot. To have Chalmers as a third stringer would require an extra body cut.

Lamar only has like a 75k guarantee. No biggie there.

But if not Lawson, something else. He has baggage sure, but I also believe with what's left, he also has the highest potential reward.

[blind prophet]

Wouldn't mind someone confirming this with a second source, with the Lamar money

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/lamar-patterson/

[HartfordWhalers]

Tolliver was teammate of the year in the player union last year

So was Landry!!!

tl/dr: This offseason was about stabilizing the image and setting up for next offseason's moves.

For stabilizing, having any experienced backup pg would help. For setting up next years moves, I'm not a fan of Temple and Barnes (PO) still on the books (or Tolliver's partial gtd).

I threw out examples of what I would have considered better stabilizing one year options in my review, would be curious what you agree and disagree with.

I think Temple is a better get than Jeff Green would have been. Temple is versatile in an area we need it more (capable of 1-3) while Green is more of a 3/4 where we already have Casspi and Gay that are the same way. Henderson would have been OK but I'm not a fan of Sergio, I just don't think he's that good even though we need a PG.

We absolutely need another PG and I don't doubt that we'll address that before opening night, we'll just have to wait and see who it is. Tolliver's partially guaranteed deal isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. 2 million isn't going to cripple us so I don't see how that's much of a problem. The roster isn't perfect and that was a point I made, there's work to do there, I was talking about stabilizing the image which I think we've moved in the right direction to address. Would you agree with that?

Temple this year is better than Green, but even Green this year I like more for Sac than Tolliver. But more than the exact fit for this year, I liked the cap space in a year versus locked into Temple for 3 and Barnes for 2. You don't want to make a long term commitment to what is at best a short term solution; don't propose marriage to a rebound first date.

I would very much agree that the organization looked respectable this offseason in a good way. Joerger was a great great get, and besides Rudy Gay being Rudy Gay, this offseason has been blemish free. I mean, last season even had that absurd LRMM contract void and then contract void lawsuit (meanwhile I loved his signing last year in the same role as a Barnes this year). Just stopping all that sort of noise is huge. But this offseason so far reminds me of a guy in the middle of the ocean, getting tired and deciding that his strategy is to swim in increasingly larger concentric circles. It is a lot of moves to get not too far in any specific direction.

[bpcox05]

There's always McLemore for D. Harris which seems like a fair deal for both sides. You can then sign a guy like Chalmers (or Marshall if he becomes available) and be fine at PG. Obviously if you sign Chalmers/Marshall that means I. Cousins is gone, but I'm not too worried about that. Collison/D. Harris/Chalmers (and Temple if needed) is more than enough to hold the PG spot down (even if Collison gets suspended).

I'm really not that worried about our PG rotation with so much time left and many sensible options out there.

[Andre Roberstan]

I'd argue that the biggest thing the Kings need to do at this point is stabilize their public image, both in the eyes of the general public and around the league. We talk about FA signings as if they occur in a vacuum, but it may well be that Divac talked to other guys and Temple/Tolliver/Barnes et al were the guys who wanted to come.

And I'm not disagreeing with that part. The part I'm having issue with it is I really don't think they managed to do that. For me, there was one of two directions to go. Either they overpay for the "right" veteran FA similar to what the Lakers did OR opt to overpay in terms of 1 year deals. I mean, look at guys like Jeff Green. He signed a 1 year deal. You mean to tell me you throw a few more million at him, and promise him a semi-significant role he wouldn't opt for that? To me, their FA spending seems to be spending for the sake of spending. There's no direction, and for me none of those FA signings really don't stabilize the franchise IMO.

I'm really not a big fan of 1-year deals, honestly—not long enough to get Bird or non-Bird rights if the player outperforms or wants a longer contract.

My best guess (and some of this is informed by some of his interviews) is that Vlade went into the offseason with a checklist that said:

* Stretch 4
* Cousins insurance
* Young guy to replace Koufos
* Wing defense
* Wing ballhandler

and just did whatever he had to to fill out that checklist. Maybe he's just waiting to get a PG right now. One hopes.

I don't think the Lakers are a good example here, to be honest. What the Lakers did feels like "we're overpaying guys who we know are solid right now to train/provide help for our young players, and those deals expire before we really start feeling the financial pinch".

Kings are in a different stage, and honestly an unenviable one. They're not a destination for the city. They're not a destination for their front office. They're not a destination for winning. There aren't guys lining up to play with Boogie. To succeed in a smaller market you have to be a destination city (Miami) or an organization with a sterling reputation (San Antonio) or draft really really well (Oklahoma City) or make solid value moves (Memphis). Probably some combination of 2 of those.

It's not really optimal, I agree. But they at least have guys that fit the description of what a team around Boogie should look like in the broadest sense, even if it's not a super-talented group, and I think for the first time in a long while ownership, coaching and front office are all on the same page. That counts for at least something in my book.

[HartfordWhalers]

Wouldn't mind someone confirming this with a second source, with the Lamar money

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/lamar-patterson/

Smitty and bbinsiders have no guarantee for this year. I believe that 75k that spotrac shows is what he was guaranteed last year, and is not a commentary on any guarantee this year.

[Smitty731]

I have a lot of thoughts about this one:

I like the Afflalo pick up. I think he'll give them a lot more at SG than they've gotten for the last few years. He's not great, but that is a good contract for what he'll give them.

I like the Tolliver deal because they didn't have a big with consistent range.

I think Barnes will be good for them, but that might be one too many strong personalities in the same locker room. Only time will tell.

Loved the Belinelli trade and the Richardson pick is pretty good. Well done there.

Loved the trade with Phoenix. Bogdanovic may end up the best part of the whole thing. But getting the extra pick was great work.

I loved the Labissiere pick. Abundance of centers or not, that was terrific value and he looked good in Summer League.

I hated the Papagiannis pick. It didn't make sense at the time and I'm not sure it will down the line either.

I'm fine with the Temple signing. I'm fine with $8 million for this year. But $16 million for the next two years seems crazy. He's a stopgap guy.

Not finding a reliable backup PG was silly. Not finding one with Collison's situation is borderline insane. Even if they love Temple, they still need another guy.

Feels like there are 1-2 too many bigs and that they are light on the guard side.

And I love that they kept Cousins. Give it one more run. If things aren't working out by the Trade Deadline, move on and go in a different direction. But if they are working out, they've got a good player on an under market deal for the next season too.

And, lastly, I love the Dave Joerger hire. I think he'll be excellent for the Kings. They'll play hard and defend better. Hopefully the team will be patient enough to let him manage through some of the hiccups with a somewhat flawed roster.

Overall, I think the Kings will be in that 7-13 mix, but probably on the 9-13 side of things.

[codydaze]

So was Landry!!!



For stabilizing, having any experienced backup pg would help. For setting up next years moves, I'm not a fan of Temple and Barnes (PO) still on the books (or Tolliver's partial gtd).

I threw out examples of what I would have considered better stabilizing one year options in my review, would be curious what you agree and disagree with.

I think Temple is a better get than Jeff Green would have been. Temple is versatile in an area we need it more (capable of 1-3) while Green is more of a 3/4 where we already have Casspi and Gay that are the same way. Henderson would have been OK but I'm not a fan of Sergio, I just don't think he's that good even though we need a PG.

We absolutely need another PG and I don't doubt that we'll address that before opening night, we'll just have to wait and see who it is. Tolliver's partially guaranteed deal isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. 2 million isn't going to cripple us so I don't see how that's much of a problem. The roster isn't perfect and that was a point I made, there's work to do there, I was talking about stabilizing the image which I think we've moved in the right direction to address. Would you agree with that?

Temple this year is better than Green, but even Green this year I like more for Sac than Tolliver. But more than the exact fit for this year, I liked the cap space in a year versus locked into Temple for 3 and Barnes for 2. You don't want to make a long term commitment to what is at best a short term solution; don't propose marriage to a rebound first date.

I would very much agree that the organization looked respectable this offseason in a good way. Joerger was a great great get, and besides Rudy Gay being Rudy Gay, this offseason has been blemish free. I mean, last season even had that absurd LRMM contract void and then contract void lawsuit (meanwhile I loved his signing last year in the same role as a Barnes this year). Just stopping all that sort of noise is huge. But this offseason so far reminds me of a guy in the middle of the ocean, getting tired and deciding that his strategy is to swim in increasingly larger concentric circles. It is a lot of moves to get not too far in any specific direction.

I don't know maybe I don't like Jeff Green as much as you do and like Temple more. I just feel like he's a good defensive player that will be a solid bench piece for the duration of his contract.

I'm just looking at 2017, I hope we throw the max at Otto Porter. If we land him, we'd be looking at something around this:

Collison
Bogdanovich/Afflalo(?)/Temple/Richardson
Porter/Casspi/Barnes
WCS/Skal
Cousins/Koufos/Papagiannis

That's still a young core but we'd have to pull all our eggs in the Porter basket and pray he signs/isn't matched which is probably likely by Washington anyway. Either way, I think the moves this year set up a decent framework for what we intend to do next summer.

[Texas Chuck]

I like knowing I don't have to actually read the OP to criticize their work:

You all suck. It's okay to go into a season with only one PG, a guy who has lost his starting job everywhere he has gotten one, including in Sacramento no less and to a guy almost universally seen as being one of the worst starters in the league. And oh yeah that guy has a legal issue hanging over his head.

I would reccommend that anyone with that significant of a persecution complex that they don't read posts, but criticize content not in them---well this board probably isn't for you. When we have four posters of this quality (plus more itt) give their reviews of an off-season and instead of reading first and disagreeing with content you prematurely feel the need to criticize their non-opinions--maybe stick to a fan board that only has rainbows and cotton candy.

[Mykhyn]

Looking at their depth chart I can't help but think they're preparing for life after Cousins.

Im heart broken they drafted Richardson. I wanted him on any other team(mainly Spurs). I think he will be a good pick though

Might be time to throw out some Cousin trade ideas

[bwgood77]

Ctrl-F Collison in HW's post:

Depth charts. That's it. The eyes are safe, they can read farther.

Collison is solid. But is he going to play 48 minutes a game, and is he going to do it if he's in jail? Or is Afflalo going to run the point?

I agree, they need another body

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

If for some reason they decide to trade Cousins, and I've told everyone proposing trades for him on the Suns forum for a couple years they won't trade him, and if they ever do, it will at the EARLIEST be at the trade deadline in his 2nd to last season under contract, and maybe as late as the following trade deadline.

BUT, if there was a season to bottom out, and you need a PG, there is some PREMIER talent at the PG spot. I don't think Collison is bad, and he can be a pretty good starter, but I wouldn't want to make him the cornerstone PG of the future. IF they decide to trade Cousins and can get a bunch of picks and a couple young players and draft a premier PG next draft, that might make their future a little more exciting.

This is the most excited I've been as a Suns fan since 2010 and we're gonna suck. But at least we finally have a handful of young players and have our own pick next year and our's and Miami's the following year so I'm excited to watch us grow as a young team. I feel I am much more vested in a team when I watch guys we drafted or maybe traded for in their first year become cornerstones of the team because I watched them grow and get better than trading for good players later. Sure I liked Barkley, Kidd, Manning, Hill, McDyess, Chambers and Penny but not nearly to the level of guys like KJ, Amare, Marion, Hornacek, Majerle and Nash (we drafted him).

I guess I kind of got off topic there. It's just too bad the Kings have been on such a long downturn because they were my favorite team to watch in 2002. My heart sank when Horry knocked down a game winning 3 off a blocked shot in game 4 against the Lakers in which they would have gone up 3-1 and then ended up losing game 7 against the Lakers (in OT I believe) and then in 2003 I felt it was their year and Webber breaks his leg in a series. They still even knocked out the Mavs without him. But I'm sure you know all this.

I guess the Suns have been on the same path after their failed attempt at a run a few years later, missing the playoffs for six years.

[blind prophet]

I agree, they need another body

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

If for some reason they decide to trade Cousins, and I've told everyone proposing trades for him on the Suns forum for a couple years they won't trade him, and if they ever do, it will at the EARLIEST be at the trade deadline in his 2nd to last season under contract, and maybe as late as the following trade deadline.

BUT, if there was a season to bottom out, and you need a PG, there is some PREMIER talent at the PG spot. I don't think Collison is bad, and he can be a pretty good starter, but I wouldn't want to make him the cornerstone PG of the future. IF they decide to trade Cousins and can get a bunch of picks and a couple young players and draft a premier PG next draft, that might make their future a little more exciting.

This is the most excited I've been as a Suns fan since 2010 and we're gonna suck. But at least we finally have a handful of young players and have our own pick next year and our's and Miami's the following year so I'm excited to watch us grow as a young team. I feel I am much more vested in a team when I watch guys we drafted or maybe traded for in their first year become cornerstones of the team because I watched them grow and get better than trading for good players later. Sure I liked Barkley, Kidd, Manning, Hill, McDyess, Chambers and Penny but not nearly to the level of guys like KJ, Amare, Marion, Hornacek, Majerle and Nash (we drafted him).

I guess I kind of got off topic there. It's just too bad the Kings have been on such a long downturn because they were my favorite team to watch in 2002. My heart sank when Horry knocked down a game winning 3 off a blocked shot in game 4 against the Lakers in which they would have gone up 3-1 and then ended up losing game 7 against the Lakers (in OT I believe) and then in 2003 I felt it was their year and Webber breaks his leg in a series. They still even knocked out the Mavs without him. But I'm sure you know all this.

I guess the Suns have been on the same path after their failed attempt at a run a few years later, missing the playoffs for six years.

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.