Jonas Valanciunas Proposals

[DusterBuster]

Can anyone explain to me why JV is so highly rated? As someone who doesn't watch much Raptor basketball, his stats have always seemed fairly pedestrian for someone who garners the amount of love he gets. What am I missing?

[LoyalKing]

Can anyone explain to me why JV is so highly rated? As someone who doesn't watch much Raptor basketball, his stats have always seemed fairly pedestrian for someone who garners the amount of love he gets. What am I missing?

probably the fact that he was a top 5 pick.

if a team wants a player like JV, they should trade for Vucevic, who happens to be way cheaper, more talented offensively, a much better passer and rebounder. They both have the same flaws, but for some reason JV gets plenty of love and Vucevic does not.

[DusterBuster]

Can anyone explain to me why JV is so highly rated? As someone who doesn't watch much Raptor basketball, his stats have always seemed fairly pedestrian for someone who garners the amount of love he gets. What am I missing?

probably the fact that he was a top 5 pick.

if a team wants a player like JV, they should trade for Vucevic, who happens to be way cheaper, more talented offensively, a much better passer and rebounder. They both have the same flaws, but for some reason JV gets plenty of love and Vucevic does not.

Anthony Bennett was a #1 overall pick.... I'm not trying to devalue JV with that comment, just saying that I don't believe draft position shouldn't have any sway over player value after a couple years.

[dalton749]

I would do a Jv for whiteside trade but only if wright and 2 1sts is enough to get it done.

For real?! I wouldn't trade Whiteside for JV in a million years.

Then it wouldnt get done. All I'm saying is I wouldn't want to give up any of torontos rotation players to make the move

[LoyalKing]

Can anyone explain to me why JV is so highly rated? As someone who doesn't watch much Raptor basketball, his stats have always seemed fairly pedestrian for someone who garners the amount of love he gets. What am I missing?

probably the fact that he was a top 5 pick.

if a team wants a player like JV, they should trade for Vucevic, who happens to be way cheaper, more talented offensively, a much better passer and rebounder. They both have the same flaws, but for some reason JV gets plenty of love and Vucevic does not.

Anthony Bennett was a #1 overall pick.... I'm not trying to devalue JV with that comment, just saying that I don't believe draft position shouldn't have any sway over player value after a couple years.

i don't believe either, but it's crazy how the perception of a player changes if he is drafted high.

Takes AB for example. He was terrible since his rookie season, but his 3rd year option was still taken regardless. And even after the world knew he was one of the biggest busts of all-time, he got a new 2y/2.1m contract. A player like Bennett drafted as a mid to late 1st rounder would have been cut after the 1st or 2nd season at most.

[DusterBuster]

I would do a Jv for whiteside trade but only if wright and 2 1sts is enough to get it done.

For real?! I wouldn't trade Whiteside for JV in a million years.

Then it wouldnt get done. All I'm saying is I wouldn't want to give up any of torontos rotation players to make the move

I thought you were a Heat fan. Reading over the thread, no Heat fans have weighed in on that idea. I'll be shocked if any Heat fan would be OK trading Whiteside for JV even with some incentives added on top of him.

[MessiahUjiri]

Bledsoe and Chandler for Jonas, Cory Joesph and Norman Powell.....Who says no?

Raptors could move Bledsoe to the SG and Derozan to the 3. Giving the raptors a 3rd all-star level player. Casey was with Tyson Chandler in Dallas when they won a championship. He would fit the raptors system better than JV.

Suns move one of their point guards but still have a solid back up in Cory Joesph. Get a young JV on a good contract that will fit the suns group going forward better than Chandler. And norman Powell.

That's interesting, especially if you have PJ Tucker going to Toronto.

[Kings2013]

He's run of the mill, in ordinary to me. Look up average center in dictionary and see his face.

He's not a Cousins chip like I've seen on the board

[DusterBuster]

He's run of the mill, in ordinary to me. Look up average center in dictionary and see his face.

This is more less what I've always felt about him, still hoping for someone to explain why he has so much value in some fans eyes.

[Rapcity_11]

Can anyone explain to me why JV is so highly rated? As someone who doesn't watch much Raptor basketball, his stats have always seemed fairly pedestrian for someone who garners the amount of love he gets. What am I missing?

probably the fact that he was a top 5 pick.

if a team wants a player like JV, they should trade for Vucevic, who happens to be way cheaper, more talented offensively, a much better passer and rebounder. They both have the same flaws, but for some reason JV gets plenty of love and Vucevic does not.

Vucevic is even worse defensively though. Rebounding is a wash, if anything slight edge to JV. And Vuc scores like 5 more points per 100 possessions but at much worse efficiency. So it's pretty obvious why one guy has more value.

[goodboy]

For real?! I wouldn't trade Whiteside for JV in a million years.

Then it wouldnt get done. All I'm saying is I wouldn't want to give up any of torontos rotation players to make the move

I thought you were a Heat fan. Reading over the thread, no Heat fans have weighed in on that idea. I'll be shocked if any Heat fan would be OK trading Whiteside for JV even with some incentives added on top of him.

Never in a million years.

[goodboy]

Heat fans? Want to shed some light on the proposal?

Pass

[LoyalKing]

Can anyone explain to me why JV is so highly rated? As someone who doesn't watch much Raptor basketball, his stats have always seemed fairly pedestrian for someone who garners the amount of love he gets. What am I missing?

probably the fact that he was a top 5 pick.

if a team wants a player like JV, they should trade for Vucevic, who happens to be way cheaper, more talented offensively, a much better passer and rebounder. They both have the same flaws, but for some reason JV gets plenty of love and Vucevic does not.

Vucevic is even worse defensively though. Rebounding is a wash, if anything slight edge to JV. And Vuc scores like 5 more points per 100 possessions but at much worse efficiency. So it's pretty obvious why one guy has more value.

Vucevic is playing better D than JV this season. 99 ORTG and 1.77 DRPM . JV 106 DRTG and 0.15 DRPM. Both are slow-footed C that struggle to defend the P&R. Just not really good defenders, but you can't say that Vuc is worse though.

Rebounding isn't a wash. Vuc is better this season and career-wise. Vuc carries a much bigger load offensively than JV. He is pretty much the 2nd option offensively in ORL after Fournier and he murders JV as a passer.
So no, it's not that obvious. JV just has more hype.

[Rapcity_11]

probably the fact that he was a top 5 pick.

if a team wants a player like JV, they should trade for Vucevic, who happens to be way cheaper, more talented offensively, a much better passer and rebounder. They both have the same flaws, but for some reason JV gets plenty of love and Vucevic does not.

Vucevic is even worse defensively though. Rebounding is a wash, if anything slight edge to JV. And Vuc scores like 5 more points per 100 possessions but at much worse efficiency. So it's pretty obvious why one guy has more value.

Vucevic is playing better D than JV this season. 99 ORTG and 1.77 DRPM . JV 106 DRTG and 0.15 DRPM. Both are slow-footed C that struggle to defend the P&R. Just not really good defenders, but you can't say that Vuc is worse though.

Rebounding isn't a wash. Vuc is better this season and career-wise. Vuc carries a much bigger load offensively than JV. He is pretty much the 2nd option offensively in ORL after Fournier and he murders JV as a passer.
So no, it's not that obvious. JV just has more hype.

Individual Drtg is worthless. So is RPM after 20 games.

Look at REB%. It's quite close.

Yes, it remains obvious. I don't even think JV has much value. It's just that Vucevic has almost none.

[LoyalKing]

Vucevic is even worse defensively though. Rebounding is a wash, if anything slight edge to JV. And Vuc scores like 5 more points per 100 possessions but at much worse efficiency. So it's pretty obvious why one guy has more value.

Vucevic is playing better D than JV this season. 99 ORTG and 1.77 DRPM . JV 106 DRTG and 0.15 DRPM. Both are slow-footed C that struggle to defend the P&R. Just not really good defenders, but you can't say that Vuc is worse though.

Rebounding isn't a wash. Vuc is better this season and career-wise. Vuc carries a much bigger load offensively than JV. He is pretty much the 2nd option offensively in ORL after Fournier and he murders JV as a passer.
So no, it's not that obvious. JV just has more hype.

Individual Drtg is worthless. So is RPM after 20 games.

Look at REB%. It's quite close.

Yes, it remains obvious. I don't even think JV has much value. It's just that Vucevic has almost none.

No stat is worthless. Top 10 RPM this season after 20 games - CP3, KD, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Green and Cousins. Funny how that's exactly the top 10 players of the season and probably the top 10 players in the NBA. So no, not worthless at all.

This quote I got from the Raptors board with the name : How bad is JV defense?

"5 years in the league and still the same problems: out of rotation, distracted, cant pass for his life, and soft on rebounds (shorter players hustling winning position over him)

how far can we go with that?"

This is your TOR fellow who has been watching JV his whole career, not me. All this "Casey doesn't know how to use JV" is trade board BS. You know the reality better than I do. The point here remains the same: There's no reason to overpay for JV if you can get Vucevic for half of the price with a much better contract. They're similar players.

[Rapcity_11]

Vucevic is playing better D than JV this season. 99 ORTG and 1.77 DRPM . JV 106 DRTG and 0.15 DRPM. Both are slow-footed C that struggle to defend the P&R. Just not really good defenders, but you can't say that Vuc is worse though.

Rebounding isn't a wash. Vuc is better this season and career-wise. Vuc carries a much bigger load offensively than JV. He is pretty much the 2nd option offensively in ORL after Fournier and he murders JV as a passer.
So no, it's not that obvious. JV just has more hype.

Individual Drtg is worthless. So is RPM after 20 games.

Look at REB%. It's quite close.

Yes, it remains obvious. I don't even think JV has much value. It's just that Vucevic has almost none.

No stat is worthless. Top 10 RPM this season after 20 games - CP3, KD, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Green and Cousins. Funny how that's exactly the top 10 players of the season and probably the top 10 players in the NBA. So no, not worthless at all.

This quote I got from the Raptors board with the name : How bad is JV defense?

"5 years in the league and still the same problems: out of rotation, distracted, cant pass for his life, and soft on rebounds (shorter players hustling winning position over him)

how far can we go with that?"

This is your TOR fellow who has been watching JV his whole career, not me. All this "Casey doesn't know how to use JV" is trade board BS. You know the reality better than I do. The point here remains the same: There's no reason to overpay for JV if you can get Vucevic for half of the price with a much better contract. They're similar players.

No, RPM is definitely worthless with that small of a sample. It requires a large sample.

Calling JV soft on rebounds immediately invalidates that guys opinion. JV has a million flaws but isn't soft on rebounds.

If you can go get Vucevic for half the price, I would agree. Go do it. But JV has more value. Deal with it.

[DusterBuster]

Individual Drtg is worthless. So is RPM after 20 games.

Look at REB%. It's quite close.

Yes, it remains obvious. I don't even think JV has much value. It's just that Vucevic has almost none.

No stat is worthless. Top 10 RPM this season after 20 games - CP3, KD, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Green and Cousins. Funny how that's exactly the top 10 players of the season and probably the top 10 players in the NBA. So no, not worthless at all.

This quote I got from the Raptors board with the name : How bad is JV defense?

"5 years in the league and still the same problems: out of rotation, distracted, cant pass for his life, and soft on rebounds (shorter players hustling winning position over him)

how far can we go with that?"

This is your TOR fellow who has been watching JV his whole career, not me. All this "Casey doesn't know how to use JV" is trade board BS. You know the reality better than I do. The point here remains the same: There's no reason to overpay for JV if you can get Vucevic for half of the price with a much better contract. They're similar players.

No, RPM is definitely worthless with that small of a sample. It requires a large sample.

Calling JV soft on rebounds immediately invalidates that guys opinion. JV has a million flaws but isn't soft on rebounds.

If you can go get Vucevic for half the price, I would agree. Go do it. But JV has more value. Deal with it.

Not a whole lot of justification for that opinion going on here....

[Rapcity_11]

No stat is worthless. Top 10 RPM this season after 20 games - CP3, KD, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Green and Cousins. Funny how that's exactly the top 10 players of the season and probably the top 10 players in the NBA. So no, not worthless at all.

This quote I got from the Raptors board with the name : How bad is JV defense?

"5 years in the league and still the same problems: out of rotation, distracted, cant pass for his life, and soft on rebounds (shorter players hustling winning position over him)

how far can we go with that?"

This is your TOR fellow who has been watching JV his whole career, not me. All this "Casey doesn't know how to use JV" is trade board BS. You know the reality better than I do. The point here remains the same: There's no reason to overpay for JV if you can get Vucevic for half of the price with a much better contract. They're similar players.

No, RPM is definitely worthless with that small of a sample. It requires a large sample.

Calling JV soft on rebounds immediately invalidates that guys opinion. JV has a million flaws but isn't soft on rebounds.

If you can go get Vucevic for half the price, I would agree. Go do it. But JV has more value. Deal with it.

Not a whole lot of justification for that opinion going on here....

He's a good young C, locked up to a nice contract. It's not exactly complicated. Compared to a worse defending, middling efficiency and older player who's never been on a good team? It's clear.

[LoyalKing]

Individual Drtg is worthless. So is RPM after 20 games.

Look at REB%. It's quite close.

Yes, it remains obvious. I don't even think JV has much value. It's just that Vucevic has almost none.

No stat is worthless. Top 10 RPM this season after 20 games - CP3, KD, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Green and Cousins. Funny how that's exactly the top 10 players of the season and probably the top 10 players in the NBA. So no, not worthless at all.

This quote I got from the Raptors board with the name : How bad is JV defense?

"5 years in the league and still the same problems: out of rotation, distracted, cant pass for his life, and soft on rebounds (shorter players hustling winning position over him)

how far can we go with that?"

This is your TOR fellow who has been watching JV his whole career, not me. All this "Casey doesn't know how to use JV" is trade board BS. You know the reality better than I do. The point here remains the same: There's no reason to overpay for JV if you can get Vucevic for half of the price with a much better contract. They're similar players.

No, RPM is definitely worthless with that small of a sample. It requires a large sample.

Calling JV soft on rebounds immediately invalidates that guys opinion. JV has a million flaws but isn't soft on rebounds.

If you can go get Vucevic for half the price, I would agree. Go do it. But JV has more value. Deal with it.

not it's not. Sample size matters but there's a reason why the best players in the league lead the NBA in RPM.

Well, it's a TOR fan who has been watching JV in the last 5 years saying that, not me. At least you confirm that JV has several flaws, unlike your TOR fellows.

I won't do anything. My team doesn't not need a C and I'm not a TOR fan trying to gauge value on my mediocre C. So you're happy that JV might have more value than Vucevic , good for your i guess. I can deal with it.

Maybe TOR fans are the ones who can't deal with the reality about JV though

[Rapcity_11]

No stat is worthless. Top 10 RPM this season after 20 games - CP3, KD, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Green and Cousins. Funny how that's exactly the top 10 players of the season and probably the top 10 players in the NBA. So no, not worthless at all.

This quote I got from the Raptors board with the name : How bad is JV defense?

"5 years in the league and still the same problems: out of rotation, distracted, cant pass for his life, and soft on rebounds (shorter players hustling winning position over him)

how far can we go with that?"

This is your TOR fellow who has been watching JV his whole career, not me. All this "Casey doesn't know how to use JV" is trade board BS. You know the reality better than I do. The point here remains the same: There's no reason to overpay for JV if you can get Vucevic for half of the price with a much better contract. They're similar players.

No, RPM is definitely worthless with that small of a sample. It requires a large sample.

Calling JV soft on rebounds immediately invalidates that guys opinion. JV has a million flaws but isn't soft on rebounds.

If you can go get Vucevic for half the price, I would agree. Go do it. But JV has more value. Deal with it.

not it's not. Sample size matters but there's a reason why the best players in the league lead the NBA in RPM.

Well, it's a TOR fan who has been watching JV in the last 5 years saying that, not me. At least you confirm that JV has several flaws, unlike your TOR fellows.

I won't do anything. My team doesn't not need a C and I'm not a TOR fan trying to gauge value on my mediocre C. So you're happy that JV might have more value than Vucevic , good for your i guess. I can deal with it.

Maybe TOR fans are the ones who can't deal with the reality about JV though

A lot of Raptors fans overvalue JV. No doubt about that. But calling him mediocre is a stretch. Save that for guys like Vucevic .