Iguodala TPE -> Player X -> Aaron Gordon

[Scoot McGroot]

Really?

Let's say the Warriors trade for James Johnson on July 1. Then they trade him for Aaron Gordon on July 4.

If I'm not mistaken teams must wait a certain period of time to retrade a player that they just traded for.

Remember, usually July 1-6th or 7th is the moratorium, so theoretically, with Iggy’s TPE expiring 7/7, the deals would have to happen the same day.

It’s technically illegal, but has happened. However, it’s possible the league may not allow it if the trade happen on the same day as there’s no argument that “we would’ve kept the guy but another offer to flip him came along and we couldn’t resist” if you’ve been in line on hold with the league office post moratorium to process all your deals you made. But, we could probably operate as if it’d be allowed in this forum Until we see otherwise

A trade could easily happen 'after' the season in May or June. There's no need to wait for a trade to happen in July.

Also, the trade scenario is NOT illegal. The league offices go by the written CBA agreement of what is allowed or not. They don't have some hidden agenda where they say 'we don't like this , so we're not going to allow the trade to happen'.

It's legal or not... very black & white. Just because you don't understand the rules doesn't mean they aren't clearly defined.

forget the legalities. Why would Golden State want to do this?

Exactly!

Normally, yes, but GSW is still hindered by the hard cap at the apron until the new year turns over, so one legality is cleared but a bigger one pops up to block it.

[DeathLineup]

Remember, usually July 1-6th or 7th is the moratorium, so theoretically, with Iggy’s TPE expiring 7/7, the deals would have to happen the same day.

It’s technically illegal, but has happened. However, it’s possible the league may not allow it if the trade happen on the same day as there’s no argument that “we would’ve kept the guy but another offer to flip him came along and we couldn’t resist” if you’ve been in line on hold with the league office post moratorium to process all your deals you made. But, we could probably operate as if it’d be allowed in this forum Until we see otherwise

****. This whole thing is getting trickier and trickier.

Now here's a simple question that might be the key to pull off the scenario. When does the new cap calendar starts? I'm talking about the first date when the league begins to use the 2020/21 salary cap regulation.

July 1st. During the moratorium. Depends on how fast the accountants work, but generally, the moratorium has ended between July 5-7 in the past.

Okay let's say the next moratorium ends on July 6.

Warriors immediately trade the TPE for James Johnson on July 6. Then they are allowed to trade James Johnson plus pick(s) for Aaron Gordon whenever they please right? There's no restrictions for that specific trade scenario?

Wolves would get a huge James Johnson TPE. Warriors maximizing the Iguodala TPE to acquire a good expensive player. Magic acquire pick(s) for a player they reportedly don't want.

[rugbyrugger23]

****. This whole thing is getting trickier and trickier.

Now here's a simple question that might be the key to pull off the scenario. When does the new cap calendar starts? I'm talking about the first date when the league begins to use the 2020/21 salary cap regulation.

July 1st. During the moratorium. Depends on how fast the accountants work, but generally, the moratorium has ended between July 5-7 in the past.

Okay let's say the next moratorium ends on July 6.

Warriors immediately trade the TPE for James Johnson on July 6. Then they are allowed to trade James Johnson plus pick(s) for Aaron Gordon whenever they please right? There's no restrictions for that specific trade scenario?

Wolves would get a huge James Johnson TPE. Warriors maximizing the Iguodala TPE to acquire a good expensive player. Magic acquire pick(s) for a player they reportedly don't want.

James Johnson may not be the best target for this scenario. Wolves won’t value TPE as much as JJ expiring contract — they too are looking to conduct a consolidation trade and not be bound to TPE rules.

[rugbyrugger23]

What about...

To Magic: Wiggins + GSW Top 3 (Guard of future next to Fultz) + GSW Filler + Wolves 2021

To Pacers: Gordon + Magic FRP

To Warriors: Turner + Fournier (after opt-in and via Iggy TPE)

[Resistance]

What about...

To Magic: Wiggins + GSW Top 3 (Guard of future next to Fultz) + GSW Filler + Wolves 2021

To Pacers: Gordon + Magic FRP

To Warriors: Turner + Fournier (after opt-in and via Iggy TPE)

I have the Pacers as not being interested if all they are getting is Gordon and a mid first.

[DeathLineup]

July 1st. During the moratorium. Depends on how fast the accountants work, but generally, the moratorium has ended between July 5-7 in the past.

Okay let's say the next moratorium ends on July 6.

Warriors immediately trade the TPE for James Johnson on July 6. Then they are allowed to trade James Johnson plus pick(s) for Aaron Gordon whenever they please right? There's no restrictions for that specific trade scenario?

Wolves would get a huge James Johnson TPE. Warriors maximizing the Iguodala TPE to acquire a good expensive player. Magic acquire pick(s) for a player they reportedly don't want.

James Johnson may not be the best target for this scenario. Wolves won’t value TPE as much as JJ expiring contract — they too are looking to conduct a consolidation trade and not be bound to TPE rules.

Well, James Johnson is not really necessary in this scenario. Hence the topic title is "Player X" not James Johnson. He can easily be substituted with Cody Zeller for this scenario.

[shrink]

The other way to do this is to create a new TPE using Wiggins.

Suppose GSW’s patience with Wiggins has worn thin by the end of the season. The first day after regular season ends, when both GSW and MEM are eliminated and trading reopens, the Warriors offer:

Andrew Wiggins and Eric Paschal for Gorgui Dieng, Jordan Bell, Grayson Allen and Marko Guduric

Dieng fits in the Iguodala TPE, and GSW has another TPE for Jordan Bell, so this trade creates a new, $22 mil TPE for Gordon.

[Texas Chuck]

The other way to do this is to create a new TPE using Wiggins.

Suppose GSW’s patience with Wiggins has worn thin by the end of the season. The first day after regular season ends, when both GSW and MEM are eliminated and trading reopens, the Warriors offer:

Andrew Wiggins and Eric Paschal for Gorgui Dieng, Jordan Bell, Grayson Allen and Marko Guduric

Dieng fits in the Iguodala TPE, and GSW has another TPE for Jordan Bell, so this trade creates a new, $22 mil TPE for Gordon.

Why in the world would the Grizzlies do this though?

[Scoot McGroot]

****. This whole thing is getting trickier and trickier.

Now here's a simple question that might be the key to pull off the scenario. When does the new cap calendar starts? I'm talking about the first date when the league begins to use the 2020/21 salary cap regulation.

July 1st. During the moratorium. Depends on how fast the accountants work, but generally, the moratorium has ended between July 5-7 in the past.

Okay let's say the next moratorium ends on July 6.

Warriors immediately trade the TPE for James Johnson on July 6. Then they are allowed to trade James Johnson plus pick(s) for Aaron Gordon whenever they please right? There's no restrictions for that specific trade scenario?

Wolves would get a huge James Johnson TPE. Warriors maximizing the Iguodala TPE to acquire a good expensive player. Magic acquire pick(s) for a player they reportedly don't want.

Yeah, the motions make sense legally. It’s just easier to say that it’s just circumventing the cap if it happens essentially the same day or within two days in the offseason. During the season, like in the Ridnour deal, it’s easier to argue “we got this guy and are happy to play him, but then an offer came in we couldn’t refuse and we took it”. This case kind of blows that up. Not necessarily legal, but not really illegal per se.

[Scoot McGroot]

What about...

To Magic: Wiggins + GSW Top 3 (Guard of future next to Fultz) + GSW Filler + Wolves 2021

To Pacers: Gordon + Magic FRP

To Warriors: Turner + Fournier (after opt-in and via Iggy TPE)

I have the Pacers as not being interested if all they are getting is Gordon and a mid first.

You are correct. Consider Gordon as acceptable filler in a possible Myles deal as far as Indy is concerned. At that point The pick isn’t useful at all.

[shrink]

The other way to do this is to create a new TPE using Wiggins.

Suppose GSW’s patience with Wiggins has worn thin by the end of the season. The first day after regular season ends, when both GSW and MEM are eliminated and trading reopens, the Warriors offer:

Andrew Wiggins and Eric Paschal for Gorgui Dieng, Jordan Bell, Grayson Allen and Marko Guduric

Dieng fits in the Iguodala TPE, and GSW has another TPE for Jordan Bell, so this trade creates a new, $22 mil TPE for Gordon.

Why in the world would the Grizzlies do this though?

I’m not focused on value - I’m trying to demonstrate the mechanism.

[Texas Chuck]

The other way to do this is to create a new TPE using Wiggins.

Suppose GSW’s patience with Wiggins has worn thin by the end of the season. The first day after regular season ends, when both GSW and MEM are eliminated and trading reopens, the Warriors offer:

Andrew Wiggins and Eric Paschal for Gorgui Dieng, Jordan Bell, Grayson Allen and Marko Guduric

Dieng fits in the Iguodala TPE, and GSW has another TPE for Jordan Bell, so this trade creates a new, $22 mil TPE for Gordon.

Why in the world would the Grizzlies do this though?

I’m not focused on value - I’m trying to demonstrate the mechanism.

gotcha.

I think it was the oddly specific nature of this that confused me.

[HartfordWhalers]

Really?

Let's say the Warriors trade for James Johnson on July 1. Then they trade him for Aaron Gordon on July 4.

If I'm not mistaken teams must wait a certain period of time to retrade a player that they just traded for.

Remember, usually July 1-6th or 7th is the moratorium, so theoretically, with Iggy’s TPE expiring 7/7, the deals would have to happen the same day.

It’s technically illegal, but has happened. However, it’s possible the league may not allow it if the trade happen on the same day as there’s no argument that “we would’ve kept the guy but another offer to flip him came along and we couldn’t resist” if you’ve been in line on hold with the league office post moratorium to process all your deals you made. But, we could probably operate as if it’d be allowed in this forum Until we see otherwise

A trade could easily happen 'after' the season in May or June. There's no need to wait for a trade to happen in July.

Also, the trade scenario is NOT illegal. The league offices go by the written CBA agreement of what is allowed or not. They don't have some hidden agenda where they say 'we don't like this , so we're not going to allow the trade to happen'.

It's legal or not... very black & white. Just because you don't understand the rules doesn't mean they aren't clearly defined.

This is incorrect.

The CBA and the league handbook of rules spell out what is legal. They also spells out what is illegal. They spells out is illegal to do something that is intended to circumvent the rules intentions... even if it is technically legal individually.

This isn't uncommon. Some tax rules have a similar setup, whereby doing multiple things that are technically legal to do something that is explicitly illegal is ruled illegal; even if all the individual steps are themselves legal.

Fundamentally the situation is:
Trading for JJ via TPE --> legal
Trading JJ for AG --> legal

Trading TPE for (directly) AG --> illegal.

If the league says you did two legal steps to avoid one illegal one, the net effect is the same and therefore it is illegal; they can. It is in the rules. On the other hand, they could shrug, and not hassle enforcing the rule.

Similar to jaywalking rules. It is illegal but very very few people get arrested for it.

What recently happened with Nene is Houston did something technically allowed --> offer big (mostly) unguaranteed salary with the idea to use him as a non guaranteed deal in a trade. Which would be fine but non guaranteed deals are only matched as the guaranteed portion and thus not useful as trade ballast.
So Houston offered the non-guarantee instead as a "likely" bonus, even though it was clear it was not going to happen (League rules set up what is likely so no value judgment can be added to apply commonsense on what is likely).
And thus Houston had found a perfectly legal loophole ... to do something that is illegal.

Summarizing:
Sign someone to a deal with bonuses that are listed as likely --> legal
Use those likely bonus as part of salary in a trade --> legal

Trade someone using a matching salary higher than they will get 'likely' paid --> illegal.

The league stepped in and said that all your legal steps are aimed to make a mockery of another rule, and therefore not allowed... despite being legal.

This absolutely could happen with GS laddering up the TPE. Or it could not. As mentioned, the steps are legal. Using the steps intentionally to do something not allowed is itself illegal. Whether that illegal is enforced, is unknown.

[shrink]

Why in the world would the Grizzlies do this though?

I’m not focused on value - I’m trying to demonstrate the mechanism.

gotcha.

I think it was the oddly specific nature of this that confused me.

I understand. Since I was talking about the numbers, I used the trade checker to find a team with the right combination of salaries to make that TPE increase work. I briefly considered including the 2020 MIN 1st, but since that was the price of Russell, I wanted to avoid going off track and arguing with GSW fans about the new narrative that Wiggins is good now in his lesser role, and he’s not another placeholder. That’s why I stuck in Paschal, because he didn’t mess up the numbers, and just wanted to get on with my day.

If I have a trade idea I think is legitimate, I’ll start a new thread, so people can get every chance to show me why I’m wrong.

[rugbyrugger23]

Okay let's say the next moratorium ends on July 6.

Warriors immediately trade the TPE for James Johnson on July 6. Then they are allowed to trade James Johnson plus pick(s) for Aaron Gordon whenever they please right? There's no restrictions for that specific trade scenario?

Wolves would get a huge James Johnson TPE. Warriors maximizing the Iguodala TPE to acquire a good expensive player. Magic acquire pick(s) for a player they reportedly don't want.

James Johnson may not be the best target for this scenario. Wolves won’t value TPE as much as JJ expiring contract — they too are looking to conduct a consolidation trade and not be bound to TPE rules.

Well, James Johnson is not really necessary in this scenario. Hence the topic title is "Player X" not James Johnson. He can easily be substituted with Cody Zeller for this scenario.

I get that is point of thread. Hence I was responding to specific post within said thread referencing JJ as said filler.

[rugbyrugger23]

What about...

To Magic: Wiggins + GSW Top 3 (Guard of future next to Fultz) + GSW Filler + Wolves 2021

To Pacers: Gordon + Magic FRP

To Warriors: Turner + Fournier (after opt-in and via Iggy TPE)

I have the Pacers as not being interested if all they are getting is Gordon and a mid first.

You are correct. Consider Gordon as acceptable filler in a possible Myles deal as far as Indy is concerned. At that point The pick isn’t useful at all.

Move that Wolves FFRP to Pacers. That is a really good deal for Turner.

Pacers would have a solid lineup and plenty of assets for own future consolidation trade: Lamb and/or McD and/or Warren + 2020 Magic FRP + Wolves FFRP + Own FFRPs as needed.

[gambitx777]

There is nothing illegal about it. They talked about this strategy on the jump durring the trade deadline special. You can trade a traded played next day if you wanna they just can be moved with any one else. So you can salary ladder like this all day if you have the assets to do it. I would try to take Bobby portis off NYK and then flip him .he's at least young and sort of useful and he can be cut for a mill if it doesn't work out.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Scoot McGroot]

I have the Pacers as not being interested if all they are getting is Gordon and a mid first.

You are correct. Consider Gordon as acceptable filler in a possible Myles deal as far as Indy is concerned. At that point The pick isn’t useful at all.

Move that Wolves FFRP to Pacers. That is a really good deal for Turner.

Pacers would have a solid lineup and plenty of assets for own future consolidation trade: Lamb and/or McD and/or Warren + 2020 Magic FRP + Wolves FFRP + Own FFRPs as needed.

Y’all projecting Minnesota to be terrible again next year? Like, more terrible than this year?

As for Indy, it’s still rough and requires a complete paradigm shift in terms of giving up an additional year to try and draft for the far off future, or dealing a guy to create a hole to then try and deal those pieces along with other valued pieces like our starting SF to then create another hole while simultaneously trying to fill the first hole. Confusing. Generally not our route of action. In this situation where we deal our starters at Pf/C and SF, how do we get back two new starters at the SF and PF spots (since we’d then like to move Sabonis to the C spot) that are as good or better than we already have? Herein lies the tough part of any deal centered around Myles for a draft pick. Indy doesn’t really deal current for future unless they’re at a precipice and know a rebuild is happening anyway (JO for Hibbert, Dale Davis for JO).

[rugbyrugger23]

You are correct. Consider Gordon as acceptable filler in a possible Myles deal as far as Indy is concerned. At that point The pick isn’t useful at all.

Move that Wolves FFRP to Pacers. That is a really good deal for Turner.

Pacers would have a solid lineup and plenty of assets for own future consolidation trade: Lamb and/or McD and/or Warren + 2020 Magic FRP + Wolves FFRP + Own FFRPs as needed.

Y’all projecting Minnesota to be terrible again next year? Like, more terrible than this year?

As for Indy, it’s still rough and requires a complete paradigm shift in terms of giving up an additional year to try and draft for the far off future, or dealing a guy to create a hole to then try and deal those pieces along with other valued pieces like our starting SF to then create another hole while simultaneously trying to fill the first hole. Confusing. Generally not our route of action. In this situation where we deal our starters at Pf/C and SF, how do we get back two new starters at the SF and PF spots (since we’d then like to move Sabonis to the C spot) that are as good or better than we already have? Herein lies the tough part of any deal centered around Myles for a draft pick. Indy doesn’t really deal current for future unless they’re at a precipice and know a rebuild is happening anyway (JO for Hibbert, Dale Davis for JO).

Personally I think the trade is more simple.

Turner + Lamb + Warren (via TPE)

FOR

Wiggins + Paschall + Poole + 2020 GSW FRP + 2021 Wolves FRP + 10.8mil TPE

Pacers gamble Wiggins can be saved — maybe even continue the uptick in his development GSW have started. He would look good next to Dipo and Brogdon.

Paschall is new PF next to Sabonis.

Pacers draft who they think is best player available (not Wiseman because Warriors probably stand pat if they can draft him) with Warriors FRP.

Then the Pacers are off and running.
C: Sabonis
F: Paschall
F: Wiggins
G: Dipo
G: Brogdon

Once they get a feel for new lineup, they go shopping using TPE (to start) and then even a consolidation trade at some point: GSW 2020 + Wolves 2021 + Own FFRP as needed.

[Scoot McGroot]

Move that Wolves FFRP to Pacers. That is a really good deal for Turner.

Pacers would have a solid lineup and plenty of assets for own future consolidation trade: Lamb and/or McD and/or Warren + 2020 Magic FRP + Wolves FFRP + Own FFRPs as needed.

Y’all projecting Minnesota to be terrible again next year? Like, more terrible than this year?

As for Indy, it’s still rough and requires a complete paradigm shift in terms of giving up an additional year to try and draft for the far off future, or dealing a guy to create a hole to then try and deal those pieces along with other valued pieces like our starting SF to then create another hole while simultaneously trying to fill the first hole. Confusing. Generally not our route of action. In this situation where we deal our starters at Pf/C and SF, how do we get back two new starters at the SF and PF spots (since we’d then like to move Sabonis to the C spot) that are as good or better than we already have? Herein lies the tough part of any deal centered around Myles for a draft pick. Indy doesn’t really deal current for future unless they’re at a precipice and know a rebuild is happening anyway (JO for Hibbert, Dale Davis for JO).

Personally I think the trade is more simple.

Turner + Lamb + Warren (via TPE)

FOR

Wiggins + Paschall + Poole + 2020 GSW FRP + 2021 Wolves FRP + 10.8mil TPE

Pacers gamble Wiggins can be saved — maybe even continue the uptick in his development GSW have started. He would look good next to Dipo and Brogdon.

Paschall is new PF next to Sabonis.

Pacers draft who they think is best player available (not Wiseman because Warriors probably stand pat if they can draft him) with Warriors FRP.

Then the Pacers are off and running.
C: Sabonis
F: Paschall
F: Wiggins
G: Dipo
G: Brogdon

Once they get a feel for new lineup, they go shopping using TPE (to start) and then even a consolidation trade at some point: GSW 2020 + Wolves 2021 + Own FFRP as needed.

Like I said, Indy doesn’t tank. No thanks.