Hayward and 14 for 6

[Darthlukey]

The Hawks are not worried about Dedmon's 13.3 in 2020 and the 1 million in 2021. They honestly need Dedmon with no other 100% healthy backup behind Capela.

I think Smart is a player the Hawks value. 6 for 14 and Smart would get something done. I see zero value with Hayward for the Hawks. He is 35 million dollar cap place holder. They can do better in free agency for overall value.

I dont think the Celtics would trade Smart straight up for 6, let alone add 14. They pass, quickly.

I agree. Smart stays, 14 is made and the others may be sold, Boston runs it out another season hoping Hayward can play a full season.

Expiring contracts are almost always more valuable to the team that owns them. It is why only one out of every ten to twenty get moved.

Yeah, there is a specific market for expirings. Teams wishing to tank or to clear space to make an off season run at impending free agents would be about it. Contending teams don't really need it and up and coming teams (ie the hawks) probably don't get any value out of it either

[Scoot McGroot]

Doesn't make sense for the hawks at that price. If their choices are gone at 6, I would think they would want us to take dedmon back to clear 13mill or about 1/3rd of Hayward. Hayward at the cost of 21mill is diff than Hayward at the cost of 34. the stars would have to be in align for it to make sense, but it does free up tre to move without the ball.

Or something huge like Smart, Theis and Hayward going out and cappela + coming back. Atlanta rolls with Dedmon/Theis
---Reddish/Collins-Hunter-Hayward- Huerter-smart-Tre minus who the celts pick not collins

The Hawks are not worried about Dedmon's 13.3 in 2020 and the 1 million in 2021. They honestly need Dedmon with no other 100% healthy backup behind Capela.

I think Smart is a player the Hawks value. 6 for 14 and Smart would get something done. I see zero value with Hayward for the Hawks. He is 35 million dollar cap place holder. They can do better in free agency for overall value.

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

[Darthlukey]

Doesn't make sense for the hawks at that price. If their choices are gone at 6, I would think they would want us to take dedmon back to clear 13mill or about 1/3rd of Hayward. Hayward at the cost of 21mill is diff than Hayward at the cost of 34. the stars would have to be in align for it to make sense, but it does free up tre to move without the ball.

Or something huge like Smart, Theis and Hayward going out and cappela + coming back. Atlanta rolls with Dedmon/Theis
---Reddish/Collins-Hunter-Hayward- Huerter-smart-Tre minus who the celts pick not collins

The Hawks are not worried about Dedmon's 13.3 in 2020 and the 1 million in 2021. They honestly need Dedmon with no other 100% healthy backup behind Capela.

I think Smart is a player the Hawks value. 6 for 14 and Smart would get something done. I see zero value with Hayward for the Hawks. He is 35 million dollar cap place holder. They can do better in free agency for overall value.

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

Ironically given we are talking about value and draft positions, im pretty sure smart went 6th when he was drafted

[Buzzard]

Doesn't make sense for the hawks at that price. If their choices are gone at 6, I would think they would want us to take dedmon back to clear 13mill or about 1/3rd of Hayward. Hayward at the cost of 21mill is diff than Hayward at the cost of 34. the stars would have to be in align for it to make sense, but it does free up tre to move without the ball.

Or something huge like Smart, Theis and Hayward going out and cappela + coming back. Atlanta rolls with Dedmon/Theis
---Reddish/Collins-Hunter-Hayward- Huerter-smart-Tre minus who the celts pick not collins

The Hawks are not worried about Dedmon's 13.3 in 2020 and the 1 million in 2021. They honestly need Dedmon with no other 100% healthy backup behind Capela.

I think Smart is a player the Hawks value. 6 for 14 and Smart would get something done. I see zero value with Hayward for the Hawks. He is 35 million dollar cap place holder. They can do better in free agency for overall value.

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

I am sure this is true for a few fans. I am not sure NBA GMs are as moved by a 6th man. I put Smart in Beverly's company and if anyone wants to argue Smart is a little better, that does not phase me. Smart is younger; but even when Beverly was in his twenties, I think most GMs would have laughed at giving up #6 for Beverly. I laugh at 6 for Smart or a younger Beverly.

[HartfordWhalers]

I have Smart worth more than 6

I think the idea of laughing at Smart being worth 6 shows a full lack of understanding of Smart's value, to the point that any discussion isn't worth having as it has already been ruled out as being serious.

[HartfordWhalers]

Smart last season played 32mpg, 38 mpg in the playoffs. He was 4th on the team in mpg, (3rd in total minutes) and started 40/72 regular season games. He also started 16 of 17 playoff games.

Those are excellent minute and start totals for a '6th man'.

[Scoot McGroot]

The Hawks are not worried about Dedmon's 13.3 in 2020 and the 1 million in 2021. They honestly need Dedmon with no other 100% healthy backup behind Capela.

I think Smart is a player the Hawks value. 6 for 14 and Smart would get something done. I see zero value with Hayward for the Hawks. He is 35 million dollar cap place holder. They can do better in free agency for overall value.

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

I am sure this is true for a few fans. I am not sure NBA GMs are as moved by a 6th man. I put Smart in Beverly's company and if anyone wants to argue Smart is a little better, that does not phase me. Smart is younger; but even when Beverly was in his twenties, I think most GMs would have laughed at giving up #6 for Beverly. I laugh at 6 for Smart or a younger Beverly.

I mean, Beverley wasn’t a really good defender like he has been lately in his twenties, there’s not much of a comparison. But yeah, Smart is better. He’s also 6 years younger. The key difference is that Beverley is a guy that can defend the heck out of the 1 and do ok to well at the 2. Smart is a guy that can defend the heck out of the 1-4 and even switch on 5’s. Beverly's declining and Smart is still getting better year over year. And whether or not you like it, the market cost for a Smart is close to the 6 straight up. You absolutely could go elsewhere and try and find a Smart imitator and pay a lot less, but it may not work out, and that player will likely disappoint you quickly.

[Buzzard]

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

I am sure this is true for a few fans. I am not sure NBA GMs are as moved by a 6th man. I put Smart in Beverly's company and if anyone wants to argue Smart is a little better, that does not phase me. Smart is younger; but even when Beverly was in his twenties, I think most GMs would have laughed at giving up #6 for Beverly. I laugh at 6 for Smart or a younger Beverly.

And whether or not you like it, the market cost for a Smart is close to the 6 straight up. You absolutely could go elsewhere and try and find a Smart imitator and pay a lot less, but it may not work out, and that player will likely disappoint you quickly.

If I believe you are the smartest GM in the room, then I have to concede you are right. Smart is way better than Beverly and he is worth the 6th pick. But I don't concede that.

The only reason Smarts value is better is because he is younger. Take all this with a grain of salt, because I don't think I am the smartest GM in the room. I just think my opinion is closer to reality.

[Texas Chuck]

Marcus Smart is really good at basketball. He is worth more than pick 6 in this draft. I think the Warriors would gladly give #2 for him right now and I think the Wolves would think long and hard about #1 overall for him.

Defense matters too.

[Buzzard]

Smart last season played 32mpg, 38 mpg in the playoffs. He was 4th on the team in mpg, (3rd in total minutes) and started 40/72 regular season games. He also started 16 of 17 playoff games.

Those are excellent minute and start totals for a '6th man'.

They really are great numbers for a 6th man and he gets lots of usage with Hayward's issues.

Harrell got 27.8 minutes a game . If Zubac would have went down for 20 games, I am sure Harrell would have got more minutes.

Schroeder got 30.8 minutes a game with no injury to CP3 or SGA. If one of them would have missed 20 games like Hayward, he would have seen a uptick.

Its not all black and white; but Smarts role is the team "defender". That is very similar to what Beverley has been his whole career. Now that does not mean Smart can't start. Beverley started 50 games.

[Buzzard]

Marcus Smart is really good at basketball. He is worth more than pick 6 in this draft. I think the Warriors would gladly give #2 for him right now and I think the Wolves would think long and hard about #1 overall for him.

Defense matters too.

Yes it does matter; but apparently with the lacking ability on the offensive end, its only worth 13 million a year for Smart and 14 million a year for Beverley. Added, the great defender Robert Covington at a average of 11.7 million a season.

Its no secret GMs all over the league put a higher value on offense and/or a more balanced game. I think that same value system applies to a players worth when it comes to draft picks as well. I have no problem that you and several others disagree, but I think my argument is valid.

[shakes0]

The Hawks are not worried about Dedmon's 13.3 in 2020 and the 1 million in 2021. They honestly need Dedmon with no other 100% healthy backup behind Capela.

I think Smart is a player the Hawks value. 6 for 14 and Smart would get something done. I see zero value with Hayward for the Hawks. He is 35 million dollar cap place holder. They can do better in free agency for overall value.

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

I am sure this is true for a few fans. I am not sure NBA GMs are as moved by a 6th man. I put Smart in Beverly's company and if anyone wants to argue Smart is a little better, that does not phase me. Smart is younger; but even when Beverly was in his twenties, I think most GMs would have laughed at giving up #6 for Beverly. I laugh at 6 for Smart or a younger Beverly.

I have Smart as significantly better than Beverly. Smart's brain works at a totally different level than Beverly's.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Smart was a highly successful 6th pick in a better draft than this one. Travis Schlenk would do backflips if he could guarantee this pick would one day be as good as Smart.

[Buzzard]

I think 6 is closer to straight up value for Smart than also getting back 14. At least, if I had Smart I would be tempted somewhat to move him for 6. I would not at all be tempted to use him just to move up from 14 to 6.

I am sure this is true for a few fans. I am not sure NBA GMs are as moved by a 6th man. I put Smart in Beverly's company and if anyone wants to argue Smart is a little better, that does not phase me. Smart is younger; but even when Beverly was in his twenties, I think most GMs would have laughed at giving up #6 for Beverly. I laugh at 6 for Smart or a younger Beverly.

I have Smart as significantly better than Beverly. Smart's brain works at a totally different level than Beverly's.

I don't see that much of a difference. Both harass the heck out of the other team but are **** on offense. But the offensive nod goes to Beverly. Its not close.

Career .381 3P% and .545 TS% for Beverley vs Smart chucking along at .318 and a .501 TS%. Those that say Smart improved, its still not close. .388 3P% and .560 TS for Beverly this season vs Smart .347 3P% and a .518 TS.

My opinion is the same. These defensive role players are the heroes of fans; but they are not highly valued by teams. Their contracts are the biggest proof of that. Covington has one all defensive team, Beverley has three, Smart has three. That is not the same value as three All Star games and their contracts reflect it.

[HartfordWhalers]

For those that failed to pay attention but are citing it; Covington's contract wasn't 11.7m a year at all. That is off by a full 15m paid a full year before he hit free agency.

So, add ~4m a year as well as the time value and security of getting 15m that much earlier than free agency.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Heres a list of Hawks players with a higher PIPM than Smart:

-Trae Young

Here’s a list of Hawks players with a higher RPM than Smart:


Here’s a list of Hawks players with a higher RAPTOR than Smart:

-Trae Young

I’m happy that Hawks fans would prefer to keep their 6th pick over Smart; I dont get it, but you guys do you. I’ll happily keep Smart.

[Buzzard]

Heres a list of Hawks players with a higher PIPM than Smart:

-Trae Young

Here’s a list of Hawks players with a higher RPM than Smart:


Here’s a list of Hawks players with a higher RAPTOR than Smart:

-Trae Young

I’m happy that Hawks fans would prefer to keep their 6th pick over Smart; I dont get it, but you guys do you. I’ll happily keep Smart.

We have to do us. They are heavily invested in two 2nd year players and two rookies. Changing course for a defensive role player would be Schlenk admitting he bombed on Huerter and Reddish before either has played their 2nd and 3rd season. Its a dumb move for the Hawks to trade away 6; while throwing in the towel by starting Smart over either of those two players.

And you don't trade 6 for a career bench player; so Smart would have to start.

[HartfordWhalers]

There are two questions (If you ignore the idea of flipping Smart immediately to a eam like GS and coming out with an arbitrage difference):
1) Is Smart worth 6
2) Should Atlanta trade 6 (+?) for Smart

If I were Atlanta, I might pick to grab a young guy and try and keep growing a young core; but even if I took that direction and said Trae can wait and we don't need to rush to get better, I absolutely would not be laughing at Smart being worth 6.

[Scoot McGroot]

Heres a list of Hawks players with a higher PIPM than Smart:

-Trae Young

Here’s a list of Hawks players with a higher RPM than Smart:


Here’s a list of Hawks players with a higher RAPTOR than Smart:

-Trae Young

I’m happy that Hawks fans would prefer to keep their 6th pick over Smart; I dont get it, but you guys do you. I’ll happily keep Smart.

We have to do us. They are heavily invested in two 2nd year players and two rookies. Changing course for a defensive role player would be Schlenk admitting he bombed on Huerter and Reddish before either has played their 2nd and 3rd season. Its a dumb move for the Hawks to trade away 6; while throwing in the towel by starting Smart over either of those two players.

And you don't trade 6 for a career bench player; so Smart would have to start.

Reddish and Huerter are still young. And Hunter. It why can’t a Trae/Smart/Reddish/Hunter/Collins start down the line? With Huerter as first guard off the bench? Have Hunter as first “big sub” even while starting Capela. That’s a real solid 7 man core long term and all 7 guys could play 30+ minutes easy. When Capelas deal is up, maybe a Hunter/Collins dup is ready to handle the 4/5.

But if you keep 6, what position are you likely to draft? Wouldn’t that also be an “indictment” on some other young guy or acquired guy on the roster?

[BK_2020]

BOS is on the cusp of the NBA finals and they are not going to trade a 18 PER, .595 TS% wing for the #6 pick.
ATL is the 3rd worst team in the league and they are not going to trade the #6 pick for a rental.