Boston, Sacramento

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JediMasterRevan
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#21 » by JediMasterRevan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:44 pm

kb02 wrote:1. The Kings didn't sign Bogi, because they wanted to have cap space flexibility. They're not actively looking to dump salary. Plus they wanted to open up playing time for Haliburton.

2. Woodard is not a throw in. Kings aren't trading him.

Langford + Thompson + Nesmith + an unprotected first for Barnes, Bjelly, Whiteside, and a Kings second.


Let me get this straight.

unprotected 1sst
A lotto pick in Langford
A lotto pick in Nesmith
And 29 million in future cap savings


for Harrison Barnes?


That is a GROSS overvalue.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#22 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:07 pm

Boston would be pleased to do Thompson + one or more minor players (Ojeleye, Edwards, Green, Teague ...) for Barnes + Whiteside. But why should that cost more than a single first round pick?
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#23 » by kb02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:45 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
kb02 wrote:1. The Kings didn't sign Bogi, because they wanted to have cap space flexibility. They're not actively looking to dump salary. Plus they wanted to open up playing time for Haliburton.

2. Woodard is not a throw in. Kings aren't trading him.

Langford + Thompson + Nesmith + an unprotected first for Barnes, Bjelly, Whiteside, and a Kings second.


Let me get this straight.

unprotected 1sst
A lotto pick in Langford
A lotto pick in Nesmith
And 29 million in future cap savings


for Harrison Barnes?


That is a GROSS overvalue.


Are we doing this again? A car once driven off the lot does not have the same value as a car that is still on the lot. No one is rating Nesmith or Langford as lottery picks. Using your logic, why don't we do Pritchard (a late first, so he's definitely less valuable than Langford or Nesmith) for Barnes. Deal?
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#24 » by JediMasterRevan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:40 pm

kb02 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
kb02 wrote:1. The Kings didn't sign Bogi, because they wanted to have cap space flexibility. They're not actively looking to dump salary. Plus they wanted to open up playing time for Haliburton.

2. Woodard is not a throw in. Kings aren't trading him.

Langford + Thompson + Nesmith + an unprotected first for Barnes, Bjelly, Whiteside, and a Kings second.


Let me get this straight.

unprotected 1sst
A lotto pick in Langford
A lotto pick in Nesmith
And 29 million in future cap savings


for Harrison Barnes?


That is a GROSS overvalue.


Are we doing this again? A car once driven off the lot does not have the same value as a car that is still on the lot. No one is rating Nesmith or Langford as lottery picks. Using your logic, why don't we do Pritchard (a late first, so he's definitely less valuable than Langford or Nesmith) for Barnes. Deal?


That is not a good analogy.

By that logic Anthony Edwards had less value a week after being in the NBA

The fact is, they were lotto picks, consensus ones at that. And they have no NBA mileage yet but in limited time have shown they belong in the league.


And on the flip side, Barnes isnt worth any of them. I would deal Pritchard for him, Pritchard is performing like a lotto pick this season but it makes no sense for Kings or for the celtics.

Romeo or Nesmith and some cap savings is all Barnes is worth.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#25 » by Prokorov » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:06 pm

I dont like it for Boston.

How much real value/impact on winning does Whiteside provide over Thompson? I'd argue little or none. Thompson is much better switching onto smalls, which boston seems to like to leverage, Barnes is at least a playable NBA rotation player. LAngrod/Neismith are giving boston nothing. but again, how much real world value does barnes provide over Semi?

to me:

Smart/Green/Tatum/Banes/Whiteside vs. Smart/Green/Tatum/Semi/Thompson is basically the same team.

This trade just shuffles the deck at 2 spots, it doesnt actually add depth. Boston needs to make a move where they are adding 1-2 rotational legit NBA players to their team, not just a minor topgrading of thompson/semi.

I'd like this alot more if it were Beismith/Romeo + pick for a role player or two.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#26 » by hugepatsfan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:01 pm

I think Harrison Barnes to BOS's TPE is a much more likely deal in the offseason than it is the deadline. On both ends:

BOS - For this year, we are literally hard capped at the tax apron. We are most likely PRACTICALLY hard capped at the luxury tax line. It just doesn't make sense for us to go over the tax line this year. Acquiring Barnes for the TPE and staying below the tax is a challenge. This offseason, we won't be hard capped and it's not practical to stay below the tax so Barnes makes much more sense for the TPE.

SAC - I don't think Barnes is going to return an overly impressive package of assets. I think the best part of any return for him would be the salary flexibility. They are in a position where if they want to re-sign Richaun Holmes, they are going to have to renounce all of their exceptions to use cap space because they don't have full bird rights.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/cap/2021/

Spotrac has them at $105.6M for next year. That includes CoJo at his full $12.6M salary vs, $2.4M buyout but let's say the delta there that they'd save ($10.2M) is what they'd have to spend on Holmes. To do that, they need to renounce all other FAs and the MLE. Their draft pick likely takes them most of the way up to the $112.4M cap.

Moving Barnes doesn't eliminate the need to do so, but gives them the wiggle room to still sign other players. You could basically sign Holmes and then use the cap space on 2 MLE type players to try and build a bit of a younger core around Fox/Haliburton/Hield/Ramsey/Holmes/2021 draft pick/Woodard. Just might make more sense to turn the money allocated to Barnes into two younger players and recoup the small asset I think you could get for trading Barnes into a TPE or cap space.

But end of the day, if Sac doesn't want to keep Holmes or they don't see any FAs they like to spend on otherwise, then there's no need to move Barnes. Hence the offseason making more sense where they can see if scenarios that require the spending room make sense.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#27 » by Celts17Pride » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:13 pm

Harrison Barnes is worth the BOS TPE and a prospect (Nesmith or Langford) or a 1st round pick not both given the $45-50 million savings the Kings would have over the next 2.5 years. If the Kings want more then say no thank you and move on.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#28 » by kb02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:16 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
kb02 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
Let me get this straight.

unprotected 1sst
A lotto pick in Langford
A lotto pick in Nesmith
And 29 million in future cap savings


for Harrison Barnes?


That is a GROSS overvalue.


Are we doing this again? A car once driven off the lot does not have the same value as a car that is still on the lot. No one is rating Nesmith or Langford as lottery picks. Using your logic, why don't we do Pritchard (a late first, so he's definitely less valuable than Langford or Nesmith) for Barnes. Deal?


That is not a good analogy.

By that logic Anthony Edwards had less value a week after being in the NBA

The fact is, they were lotto picks, consensus ones at that. And they have no NBA mileage yet but in limited time have shown they belong in the league.


And on the flip side, Barnes isnt worth any of them. I would deal Pritchard for him, Pritchard is performing like a lotto pick this season but it makes no sense for Kings or for the celtics.

Romeo or Nesmith and some cap savings is all Barnes is worth.


What is not a good analogy is you flip flopping your position. On the one hand, you say Grant Williams is not worth a first round pick, because he was drafted in the first the previous year. Then within the same thread, you say Nesmith and Langford are worth lottery picks because they were consensus picks in previous years. You can't have it both ways.

Then you go on and cite Edwards, who a few months into the season wouldn't go ahead of Lamelo. How much would it cost to move up from #3 to #1? Or do you think Haliburton would still go #12 in a redraft? Once driven, the true value of the player comes through. Absoutely no one rates Nesmith or Langford as lottos. Plus the lack of control on their rookie contracts.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#29 » by LightTheBeam » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:25 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
Romeo or Nesmith and some cap savings is all Barnes is worth.


I agree Nesmith + capsavings is a fair offer. Earlier in the thread you said this was too good for Sac. Even when I offered to include Whiteside
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#30 » by enzino » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:31 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:This isn't remotely close for Sac.

Not only are we giving you 3 role players, we are taking on Tristan for next year, and giving you Woodard (who the team likes a lot and signed to a 4 year deal up front). All for Langford and a pick that won't convey?

No thank you.

My offer would be Barnes into Boston TPE. Nesmith to Sac for Whiteside. So essentially Barnes/Whiteside for Nesmith.

fair one, like it for BOS
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#31 » by JediMasterRevan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:31 pm

kb02 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
kb02 wrote:
Are we doing this again? A car once driven off the lot does not have the same value as a car that is still on the lot. No one is rating Nesmith or Langford as lottery picks. Using your logic, why don't we do Pritchard (a late first, so he's definitely less valuable than Langford or Nesmith) for Barnes. Deal?


That is not a good analogy.

By that logic Anthony Edwards had less value a week after being in the NBA

The fact is, they were lotto picks, consensus ones at that. And they have no NBA mileage yet but in limited time have shown they belong in the league.


And on the flip side, Barnes isnt worth any of them. I would deal Pritchard for him, Pritchard is performing like a lotto pick this season but it makes no sense for Kings or for the celtics.

Romeo or Nesmith and some cap savings is all Barnes is worth.


What is not a good analogy is you flip flopping your position. On the one hand, you say Grant Williams is not worth a first round pick, because he was drafted in the first the previous year. Then within the same thread, you say Nesmith and Langford are worth lottery picks because they were consensus picks in previous years. You can't have it both ways.

Then you go on and cite Edwards, who a few months into the season wouldn't go ahead of Lamelo. How much would it cost to move up from #3 to #1? Or do you think Haliburton would still go #12 in a redraft? Once driven, the true value of the player comes through. Absoutely no one rates Nesmith or Langford as lottos. Plus the lack of control on their rookie contracts.


I never brought up Grant WIlliams. So I dont know why you are talking about his worth.

Nesmith is only a couple months into his rookie contract, Romeo has cost control moving forward still as well.

Romeo only has 320 minutes on his legs and was improving every time on the court
Nesmith has played fewer minutes and is improving every time on the court.

They are both only 21 years old.

They have the same value as the pick they were made. Late lotto.

So I am not flip flopping anywhere and you are instead flying all over the place. Romeo and Nesmith are lotto picks, and still carry the value of such in a deal. You can argue against ROmeo and that is cool, but not Aaron.
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Re: Boston, Sacramento 

Post#32 » by cl2117 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:43 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
Romeo or Nesmith and some cap savings is all Barnes is worth.


I agree Nesmith + capsavings is a fair offer. Earlier in the thread you said this was too good for Sac. Even when I offered to include Whiteside

I also think an unprotected 2021 pick works as well. Feel like there is a ton of debate over value of the rookie scale guys, just cut them out altogether. After the trade C's 2021 pick should be late teens/early 20's. Feels fair for Barnes.

Barnes into TPE for 2021 C's first unprotected.

C's need to dump Teague and Javonte Green to stay under the hard cap (both are expiring). Send Teague back to SAC (they can waive him). Send Javonte to anyone who will take him.
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