GSW trade Wiggins for a TPE

[vetmin]

Wait, what offers for Oubre?

Do we have any details on these offers for Oubre?

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Except for the Danny Green rumor (which would've been GSW jumping into a Lowry -> PHI trade), I haven't seen any details come out, but supposedly they were all in that same vein (Oubre <-> worse wing + 2nd(s)). GSW ended up not being interested in Danny Green or any such deals. Not sure if that's because they might really want to pivot to Oubre as next season's starting SF and trade Wiggins (which is a valid strategy) or if they really want to try and sell Oubre on the 6th man thing (which is too risky to bank on). If the latter, then they really should've flipped Oubre for 2nd(s) + Prince or anyone like that with an extra year on their contract, so that player could be used as expiring salary to facilitate trades in the offseason. GSW could've almost certainly made such a move, as -- in the case of Prince, for instance -- CLE would have, basically for free, simultaneously gotten better and gotten bailed out of a bad contract.

But let's say they are pivoting to Oubre as starting SF and will look to move Wiggins. I don't think turning Wiggins into a TPE makes sense because you'd need use a major asset to dump him and then another major asset to trade someone very good into that spot, which dilutes the value of the assets. For instance, imagine you do Wiggins + MIN pick -> TPE, then WAS makes Beal available and you try to do Wiseman + other picks for Beal into the TPE. If WAS is trading Beal then they probably wouldn't mind being saddled with Wiggins if it meant getting the MIN pick, so now GSW's offer is less competitive because they can't offer that.

I think attaching value to move Wiggins for a TPE, which might not even be big enough for the player they want, so they can re-sign Oubre and start him at SF would be all kinds of stupid. He wasn't an attractive trade asset at his current number on the last year of the deal.

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I agree 100% re: turning Wiggins into TPE.

Re: Oubre: Whatever you think of him now, I think he was a reasonably attractive trade asset when the Warriors acquired him (and I personally don't think he's really raised or lowered his value this season). If the Warriors re-signed and started him, they'd ideally make other moves that render Oubre the team's worst starter. That's not a bad spot to be in -- for instance, Curry-Thompson-Oubre-Siakam-Green, or Curry-Thompson-Oubre-Green-Sabonis, or Curry-Beal-Thompson-Oubre-Green.

[zimpy27]

Toronto could probably take Wiggins if they dump Boucher for picks somewhere else. They would want Wiseman or the MIN 1st though.

Wiseman
Siakam
OG
Wiggins
Fred

That's not too bad for Toronto. But why would GState want to clear space for?

Keeping Oubre on 12m and moving Wiggins on 30m saves GSW $120m in one season. $240m over next 2 seasons.

I don't think Wiggins is that much better, I also think Wiggins wouldn't need to be moved with minny pick anymore. Minny pick was used 1.5 seasons ago and it wasn't expected to be as good as it is now.

I'd say GSW would have to spend much less. Maybe just 2 or 3 SRPs to the right bidder. Wiggins has 1 year and then he's an expiring contract, which has some value on its own.

[sonictecture]

Good luck with that, Wiggins is a slightly above average player with max contract for 2 years, no one in their right mind would pay the Minny pick to get rid of him, OTOH also I'm not sure GSW 1st pick is enough.
OKC took Horford contract for a late 1st, but Horford is a better player on less money and they gave expiring contracts, not TPE.

These are the conditions for the Pick acquired by OKC for Horford:

The 76ers say the 2025 first-round pick is protected for pick Nos. 1-6, and if the pick does not convey in 2025, it will be protected for pick Nos. 1-4 in both 2026 and 2027. If not conveyed in the first round of the 2025, 2026 or 2027 drafts, the pick will be a 2027 second-round selection.

[sonictecture]

Toronto could probably take Wiggins if they dump Boucher for picks somewhere else. They would want Wiseman or the MIN 1st though.

Wiseman
Siakam
OG
Wiggins
Fred

That's not too bad for Toronto. But why would GState want to clear space for?

Keeping Oubre on 12m and moving Wiggins on 30m saves GSW $120m in one season. $240m over next 2 seasons.

I don't think Wiggins is that much better, I also think Wiggins wouldn't need to be moved with minny pick anymore. Minny pick was used 1.5 seasons ago and it wasn't expected to be as good as it is now.

I'd say GSW would have to spend much less. Maybe just 2 or 3 SRPs to the right bidder. Wiggins has 1 year and then he's an expiring contract, which has some value on its own.

It took the Minny pick for Minny to shed Wiggins. Has anything changed?

Which is worth more D’angelo Russell or a 30m tpe and 240m in tax savings?

[zimpy27]

Good luck with that, Wiggins is a slightly above average player with max contract for 2 years, no one in their right mind would pay the Minny pick to get rid of him, OTOH also I'm not sure GSW 1st pick is enough.
OKC took Horford contract for a late 1st, but Horford is a better player on less money and they gave expiring contracts, not TPE.

Actually Horford had $70m owing on his contract when traded and Wiggins would only have $60m when I'm suggesting to trade him.

Plus Horford was seen as a worse player than Wiggins when traded after his terrible year in Philly. People thought Horford had fallen off a cliff age wise while Wiggins is entering prime.

It's a good example so I suspect 3 SRPs would get it done for a TPE. Hayward sign and trade was 2 SRPs for the TPE.

[zimpy27]

Toronto could probably take Wiggins if they dump Boucher for picks somewhere else. They would want Wiseman or the MIN 1st though.

Wiseman
Siakam
OG
Wiggins
Fred

That's not too bad for Toronto. But why would GState want to clear space for?

Keeping Oubre on 12m and moving Wiggins on 30m saves GSW $120m in one season. $240m over next 2 seasons.

I don't think Wiggins is that much better, I also think Wiggins wouldn't need to be moved with minny pick anymore. Minny pick was used 1.5 seasons ago and it wasn't expected to be as good as it is now.

I'd say GSW would have to spend much less. Maybe just 2 or 3 SRPs to the right bidder. Wiggins has 1 year and then he's an expiring contract, which has some value on its own.

It took the Minny pick for Minny to shed Wiggins. Has anything changed?

Which is worth more D’angelo Russell or a 30m tpe and 240m in tax savings?

- 1.5years and $45m of the contract has been eaten since then.
- Minny was hoping to compete this year when they made trade, expected FRP to be above #10.
- Wiggins has improved his defense dramatically.

I'd say a lot has undeniably changed.

[NYG]

Given the massive amount of cap space, limited talent in free agency and especially unrestricted wings available in free agency/trade, what do you think the winning bid on Wiggins would be in 2021 free agency if he was an unrestricted free agent? How many true wing UFA's do you rank above him in 2021 free agency?

[sonictecture]

Keeping Oubre on 12m and moving Wiggins on 30m saves GSW $120m in one season. $240m over next 2 seasons.

I don't think Wiggins is that much better, I also think Wiggins wouldn't need to be moved with minny pick anymore. Minny pick was used 1.5 seasons ago and it wasn't expected to be as good as it is now.

I'd say GSW would have to spend much less. Maybe just 2 or 3 SRPs to the right bidder. Wiggins has 1 year and then he's an expiring contract, which has some value on its own.

It took the Minny pick for Minny to shed Wiggins. Has anything changed?

Which is worth more D’angelo Russell or a 30m tpe and 240m in tax savings?

- 1.5years and $45m of the contract has been eaten since then.
- Minny was hoping to compete this year when they made trade, expected FRP to be above #10.
- Wiggins has improved his defense dramatically.

I'd say a lot has undeniably changed.

Minny took back an equal contract.

Minny made a miscalculation in their win protections and were unable to negotiate better protection because of Wiggins value.

Wiggins doesn’t effect winning on either side of the ball in my view.

[NYG]

Given the massive amount of cap space, limited talent in free agency and especially unrestricted wings available in free agency/trade, what do you think the winning bid on Wiggins would be in 2021 free agency if he was an unrestricted free agent? How many true wing UFA's do you rank above him in 2021 free agency?

Actually rank the true wings on the trade market this off-season and in unrestricted free agency that are better than Wiggins.

[sonictecture]

Given the massive amount of cap space, limited talent in free agency and especially unrestricted wings available in free agency/trade, what do you think the winning bid on Wiggins would be in 2021 free agency if he was an unrestricted free agent? How many true wing UFA's do you rank above him in 2021 free agency?

Vet minimum.
I would choose a wing with less gifts but who I could mold into a role over Wiggins.

[NYG]

Given the massive amount of cap space, limited talent in free agency and especially unrestricted wings available in free agency/trade, what do you think the winning bid on Wiggins would be in 2021 free agency if he was an unrestricted free agent? How many true wing UFA's do you rank above him in 2021 free agency?

Vet minimum.
I would choose a wing with less gifts but who I could mold into a role over Wiggins.

Of the true wings on the trade market and in free agency this off-season, what's your top 3? How far down do you have Wiggins in relation?

[Mavrelous]

Good luck with that, Wiggins is a slightly above average player with max contract for 2 years, no one in their right mind would pay the Minny pick to get rid of him, OTOH also I'm not sure GSW 1st pick is enough.
OKC took Horford contract for a late 1st, but Horford is a better player on less money and they gave expiring contracts, not TPE.

Actually Horford had $70m owing on his contract when traded and Wiggins would only have $60m when I'm suggesting to trade him.

Plus Horford was seen as a worse player than Wiggins when traded after his terrible year in Philly. People thought Horford had fallen off a cliff age wise while Wiggins is entering prime.

It's a good example so I suspect 3 SRPs would get it done for a TPE. Hayward sign and trade was 2 SRPs for the TPE.

Are you sure?
His last year is no fully guranteed, and they traded expirings for him (money they would've paid anyway).

[zimpy27]

Given the massive amount of cap space, limited talent in free agency and especially unrestricted wings available in free agency/trade, what do you think the winning bid on Wiggins would be in 2021 free agency if he was an unrestricted free agent? How many true wing UFA's do you rank above him in 2021 free agency?

Actually rank the true wings on the trade market this off-season and in unrestricted free agency that are better than Wiggins.

Kawhi - stays in LAC
Oladipo - stays in MIA
Derozan
Robinson - RFA
Powell
THJ
Fournier
Trent Jr - RFA
Oubre
THT - RFA

Wiggins is probably ~4th best available. But he's getting paid $15m more per season than actual value.

[rzzzzz]

Orlando is kind of tear down rehabville. They must have a ton of cap to play around for a couple of years. Houston too. If you have to spend a certain amount by league rules, what the heck? They both have a pick to spare.

[zimpy27]

Good luck with that, Wiggins is a slightly above average player with max contract for 2 years, no one in their right mind would pay the Minny pick to get rid of him, OTOH also I'm not sure GSW 1st pick is enough.
OKC took Horford contract for a late 1st, but Horford is a better player on less money and they gave expiring contracts, not TPE.

Actually Horford had $70m owing on his contract when traded and Wiggins would only have $60m when I'm suggesting to trade him.

Plus Horford was seen as a worse player than Wiggins when traded after his terrible year in Philly. People thought Horford had fallen off a cliff age wise while Wiggins is entering prime.

It's a good example so I suspect 3 SRPs would get it done for a TPE. Hayward sign and trade was 2 SRPs for the TPE.

Are you sure?
His last year is no fully guranteed, and they traded expirings for him (money they would've paid anyway).

Yeah, 55m for this season and next, 17m guaranteed in his last season.

Yeah they traded expirings but one of those expirings is a starter (Green), other was intended to be potential rotation (Ferguson), plus they got an 8m TPE. So it effectively was better than a 27m TPE since they got a starter + 8m TPE.

[Texas Chuck]

This conversation is, at best, wildly premature.

Yep.

I'm obviously no fan of Wiggins, but I'd have zero interest in paying the price to dump his final 2 years. Technically considering the tax bill paying the Minny 1st or Wiseman or heck even both it would be a value win for the Warriors, but then what? Hope you could turn what little assets you had left into trading for a player who fits into said TPE nullifying much or all of the tax savings thus making the value on the Wiggins dump much worse?

Bottom line for me is if a team is willing to deal a star for a package headlined by Wiseman/Min 1st they aren't going to let Wiggins inclusion break the deal. Because you'd already be knowingly rebuilding at that point so just eat Wiggins. This should be the route the Warriors look at first.

Unless Klay is just broken. Then you probably go to Steph and say we want you to retire a Warrior, but we simply can't build a contender around you again so we'll work with you on a trade to where you want to go.

But just too soon to know today.

[Coxy]

I think it's all smoke regarding oubre. I dont think there was a market for him.

Replacing him with poole wouldnt have been a big downgrade, some might call it an improvement.

Definitely an improvement.

[zimpy27]

I think it's all smoke regarding oubre. I dont think there was a market for him.

Replacing him with poole wouldnt have been a big downgrade, some might call it an improvement.

Definitely an improvement.

Oubre has been playing the wrong role for him. Poole would be better. Oubre would be better in Wiggins role as an SF.

[zimpy27]

This conversation is, at best, wildly premature.

Yep.

I'm obviously no fan of Wiggins, but I'd have zero interest in paying the price to dump his final 2 years. Technically considering the tax bill paying the Minny 1st or Wiseman or heck even both it would be a value win for the Warriors, but then what? Hope you could turn what little assets you had left into trading for a player who fits into said TPE nullifying much or all of the tax savings thus making the value on the Wiggins dump much worse?

Bottom line for me is if a team is willing to deal a star for a package headlined by Wiseman/Min 1st they aren't going to let Wiggins inclusion break the deal. Because you'd already be knowingly rebuilding at that point so just eat Wiggins. This should be the route the Warriors look at first.

Unless Klay is just broken. Then you probably go to Steph and say we want you to retire a Warrior, but we simply can't build a contender around you again so we'll work with you on a trade to where you want to go.

But just too soon to know today.

I think Warriors could certainly pursue a trade around Wiggins for a star but failing that I think this is a good alternative.

So perhaps the steps would be:
1. Try trade Wiggins, Wiseman, Minny pick for a star max player.
2. If 1 fails. Trade Wiggins and pick compensation (3 SRPs) to a team with capspace to generate TPE.
3. Re-sign Oubre for 40/3 (same as Kuzma).
4. Use TPE at deadline if GSW are healthy and in position to contend. Save $50m and have a better team for finals since get Oubre and players with TPE.
5. If GSW aren't healthy or in position to contend then use TPE in 2022 off-season. Save $120m in 2021-22 season.

[Coeur]

GS will be able to move Wiggins pretty easily. Nowhere close to costing wiseman or a premium 1st to unload.

Not sure that trading him for a full trade exemption is likely or the best idea. I would think turning him into 2 pieces plus salary relief is best.


The Best part of KLay that doesn’t get talked about throughout his career has been his impact defensively. In particular covering either guard spot allowing curry to be covered up for a bit.

The thing I wonder about is KLay returning to that role and wonder if it will be time to move him to forward. Or if that even matters


Reality is the step up Wiggins is viewed as now after one season in GS will only be raised another step with a healthy KLay. Golden State prob should and prob will keep Wiggins and be happy with that choice